Ox injury ‘increases chances’ of summer Coutinho replacement

Arsenal fans debate who should succeed Arsene Wenger, Liverpool fans are worried by Real Madrid’s experience and will Jurgen Klopp replace Philippe Coutinho this summer? All in our forum…

 

Join in the debate…

 

Ox injury makes Coutinho replacement more likely

Well with news that ox maybe out till November it probably increases the chances that we will see a Coutinho replacement this summer.

However, my back to theory is that we sign someone like Seri for centre mid and Keita gets moved up into the AM role.

It’s really hard to predict Klopp sometimes when it comes to transfers. The only surefire transfer that everyone expected was VVD. No one (really) expected Mane, Salah, Gini or Robertson by the time rumours became red hot. In a way that’s what I love about Klopp is that he goes for players that for the system and not just the hipster options.

mwake

 

Liverpool different from other top clubs

One thing that sets us apart from other top clubs is that players are given time and space to improve. Not by most fans certainly, but by the manager. If they’re out of the team they still get that attention in training and I’d say 90% of the time we see that improvement on the pitch when they return.

CL finalists, CL again next season, clearly visible upward trajectory, top class manager and a brilliant style of attacking football. Right now if I was a young player in Europe, I’d be looking at us as a preferred destination.

Razor

 

‘Lack of experience will be a problem’

Lack of big game experience will be a problem. They haves bags we have none. Very few of this team have played in a final. We need Real to be under par and us on fire, if that happens we have a chance. We can hurt their defence but it’s in midfield I feel we will come up short. They have double the quality but we have the edge up front. So hard to call but I’m not confident. I hope and pray we can do it because as me auld mucker Sean would say, “it be massive”.

shanksy

 

‘We’ll be up and at them from the kick off’

Don’t underestimate the power of experience in high pressure situations. I think we’ll be up and at them from the kick off and they’ll be taken aback by the intensity of our play just like many others this season. I don’t think they’ll be used to playing against an opponent like us.

I can see us scoring a couple and being, say, 2 up at half time. In the second half we’ll tire and they’ll pull one back so that at 60 mins it’ll be 2-1 or so. After that anything could happen.

Either we get a killer on the counter as they seek an equaliser, or they overpower us. Throw in diving, play acting, dodgy refereeing decisions, injuries etc and anything is possible in the last third.

That we’ll be on the attack from the start is the only thing that you can be sure of, because we don’t know any other way

nediarb2

 

‘Liverpool the best counter- attacking team in the world’

Ned, a good post and I actually wanted to touch on the subject of us wilting as the match went on but I think I forgot.

I don’t think I’m under-estimating big game experience, it’s very valuable but when it comes down to qualities, I just feel that we have the edge on them. If we lose, I think it will be a result of us making mistakes rather than anything else. So that should say (if you agree with that statement), that it’s in our hands. That we have the quality to over-power them regardless of how well they play.

What I am getting at is that I think if both teams play at their best, I still fancy us. Ya they can put 6 past some team worth £30m and utterly dominate them but we’re one of the best counter-pressing teams in the world. We are certainly the best counter attacking team in the world. I think we’ll shock them.

As for them wasting time and faking injuries etc to break up play, this is a serious concern that I have. The only issue about this is that as they break up play, they give our lads time to rest, so we may actually be able to press them for the full 90 if they are at this crack. I would still prefer to have the momentum I think and to then bring Lallana etc on when we’re starting to tire.

I’m not saying “it’s in the bag!”. This will be an absolutely huge test. I am worried about what their stars might do on the night. Will Ronaldo , Benzema or Bale be unplayable? Will Mane keep his head.. Lots of worries but I don’t think anything can change my mind on seeing us most likely doing it. I look forward to more discussion on the matter, you never know lads.. ye might scare me down to 50:50 yet 🙂

MrMakaveli

 

Liverpool will be hungry

What Im confident about is that we will take the game to Real, we will press and hunt them down like nothing they have ever experienced, whether they will buckle under the pressure remains to be seen.

Im not so sure we will tire that much more than Real as they might panic by the frantic pace we got and Klopp has gotten his message across the team. The lads are well drilled and will be at peak condition.

I think we got the hunger needed for the win.

NotoriusBingo

 

‘Defeat is not the end of the world’

As shanks and others have said, the experience Madrid have is a huge factor. 3 cl wins in last 4 years I think. That’s a massive advantage but we play like we can, we beat anyone.

It’s interesting that everyone knows Madrid’s weakness but it’s yet to cause them major damage. They step up when needed. They are a very good side

Their team picks itself except who plays up top with Ronaldo and Benzema. It’s either bale, Isco, Vasquez or asienno. That’s some selection

I’ve no problem losing a final once we perform but if we play like we did ahainest city, we can win

Everyone needs to be up for it. This is the game of their lives. We lost the Europa on an absolute wimper. We have to turn up and perform. We have to prove people wrong. This is absolutely huge guys

We are a very good side. I really feel one cup win will kick us off. The club badly need it but so does klopp who has lost his last 5 finals. He has to get that record off his back. Win this and we can really push on

Defeat is not the end of the world but this is a huge chance guys. Don’t let it pass by not turning up on the night. Leave nothing behind and absolutely no regrets.

Pressure them from the off. Test that keeper early on. Play our game and don’t freeze.another chance like this might not come around for a longtime

Sean the sailor

 

Real Madrid are the ‘perfect’ opponent

This is a team that has played two finals in the last few years, so though its not as good as Real, they have experienced pressure games (not to mention the games against City in Champs league and Dortmund in Europa).

Most of the players are still here – Milner, Can, Migs, Lovren, Clyne, Hendo, Lallana, Moreno and Firminho. Though some of these players won’t be playing in the final, big game experience will rub off on the other players and sometimes losing games like this spurs on successes.

Im hopeful that we can win this. Real are an attacking team with weaknesses at the back – the perfect team for us. If we can improve our scoring conversion ratio, I think we will win.

Gul

 

Gazidis jets out of Heathrow…

Having been on holiday for 2 weeks, I thought maybe by the time I came back, we might be a bit closer to knowing who the new boss might be.
Oddly enough, I landed back in Heathrow at about 11 this morning for my connecting flight home and one of the first people I saw was Ivan Gazidis. I did tweet a photo of him earlier as he was heading for the BA departure lounge.

Got me wondering where he was off to.

Seems like every day there has been a different favourite for the role. Today, word out of Italy would suggest that it looks quite likely Allegri will stay put and Arteta has come in as favourite with the bookies.
You can see from social media alone that its an idea that splits the fan base. I can understand people not wanting him given some of the names we have been linked with. However, I can also see it being the kind of appointment the club would make. He was a popular figure with many when he played for the club – certainly off the field. I always liked him. I think he was badly used but at his peak, he was a very good player and a superb pro. He spoke so well about the game and his love for this club was very evident when he left. Pep couldn’t wait to get him to City and the Spuds wanted him as well. He is clearly an impressive character to those in the game.

Given the fact that we now have Sven and Raul taking care of other important off field issues, the idea of us bringing in a coach rather than a manager seems even more likely. Targeting a young coach is something the owner likes after seeing some success with the LA Rams taking the same approach. Lots of things seem to point to Arteta being a very serious candidate. Wonder how people on here feel about it?

Andy528

 

Arteta would be ‘underwhelming’

Andy – did you notice whether he was heading for domestic or international? ie whether he was flying to Manchester or Italy?

Arteta would be extremely underwhelming but as everyone keeps saying, so was Wenger when he signed and, for that reason, whoever we sign, I’ll give them until the season is underway before even thinking about making a judgement. Even Pep had limited managerial experience, before being given arguably the biggest job in football and look what happened there.

Ultimately, I’m fed up with being angry and I’m not going to get angry about the managerial appointment until there’s something to be angry about. Right now I’m just excited about going again next season and being there for the start of a new era.

I did read yesterday that one of the fan action groups will start the protests up again if we do get Arteta but that would be really dumb. Whether he turns out to be the next Pep, or the next Moyes, getting on his back from the start won’t help anyone.

Al The Gooner

 

Arteta would be underwhelming and how that would be recieved by the players remains as an issue. Because playing with someone is one thing but being managed by someone you played is not an easy adjustment.

I will say regardless we should all stand behind the new manager and give him a chance how underwhelming it may be. Because regardless of who it is he will have enough by following after Wenger. If then from the beginning have many fans on his back from day one then we might end up in the Moyes situation that United had and who wants that not me.

muffler_1

 

Huge changes taking place 

Morning Al. Not sure where he was heading. I was walking to the bar and he took the stairs up to the BA departure lounges near the same gates I was leaving from. My flight left from a gate next to a flight to Rome and he certainly wasn’t in that group when it boarded.

I don’t really have a problem with the idea of Arteta being appointed because I’m starting to feel more confident about the management structure being implemented by the club. It feels like the next man in will be able to focus entirely on tactics and player development as their primary focus. There are some huge changes taking place across the entire club and I’m choosing to look at it all from a positive POV. Its been a while since we have been able to do that!

Agree entirely about those talking about protests. Its an idiotic mentality. How long did it take people to turn on Wenger? About 7 years too long in the end and yet they would be against Arteta before he even sat in the dug out!

Andy528

 

Andy, that’s what’s giving me encouragement too mate – the fact that the new manager will have little to do but coach the players and however good Arteta does or doesn’t turn out to be, whether it’s with us or anyone else, he’s been learning from the best in the business.

Just read that Lewin has been sacked but the interesting thing was that the article said it was just the latest in part of a big clear-out they’ve been having. Aside from Vic Ackers retiring, I wasn’t aware that anyone else had gone from the backroom staff but again, aside from Vic, Bouldie is probably the only other name I’d know anyway (and there’s rumours that he’s on his way too).

Either way, people keep comparing our situation to when Fergie left Man U and the two situations are a million miles apart. Fergie won a title in his last season, with a squad that probably only he could have done that with – the next manager was always going to have a massive rebuilding job on his hands. I think we have a much, much better squad than Moyes inherited at Utd and really, all the next guy has to do, in his first season, is improve on 6th.

We don’t really need to bring in anyone, in any of the attacking positions and I’m really looking forward to seeing what Laca, Auba and Mikki do in their 2nd season. As for our defensive players, with or without new players, there are probably managers in the 2nd divison who could instantly improve them, with just a bit of work on the training pitch.

Al The Gooner

 

Nagelsmann please

Nagelsmann—Thats who I would love to see at the club. OK his Hoffenheim team was blown away by Liverpool in Champs League and I know there is all the arguemenets that can be made about the Bundesliga being a One Team Pony. However, taken Bayern out the equation.

To take Hoffenheim over when they are in relegation trouble when you are 28 years old and then the following two seasons to take them to 4th and 3rd spot in the Standings with the small budget they have is no mean feat. Downside though I suppose is they have about as good an away record as what we have.

As for Arteta. Having watched him as a young lad with Rangers then his move down south and eventually his time with us you can see he understands the tactical aspects of the game. He had tremendous respect for whoever his manager was and I am led to believe from a few of the lads we have had train down with City that he is well liked and respected by all at City. If his remit is going to be just the playing side and identifying what we need to do to progress on the pitch then it might be an astute appointment.

Whoever gets the job lads we just have to give them time. Remember it could be worse, we could have had one more year of Wenger or we could have ended up with Allardyce.

Gunjam74

 

‘No passion, no motivation, no determination’

it won’t be easy winning the FA Cup. We can’t beat Huddersfield and now we face Man Utd of Mourinho. The man won so many trophies in his career.
Our season is a dismal one. It was not as bad as 2 years ago but nonetheless it’s bad. It’s the way we play, so disappointing. No passion, no motivation, no determination.

On paper we should not be that bad. Except Matic (and Costa of course), it’s the same team that won the league last season.

aindro

 

Which Chelsea will turn up?

Aindro – but we can beat Liverpool, so really it depends on which Chelsea turns up…?

I do not think that ManU are that great. They do not play good attacking football and although they have a number of talented individual players that is exactly what they are – not a team. On our day we can match them and if we take our chances beat them

But the $64K question is which Chelsea will turn up? We will see a great game or be totally embarrassed as far as I can tell and my single hope is that the burning feud with Jose will light the fire in Conte’s belly so he is fired up and will get the players fired up as well

Then it will be down to tactics and for me we have to drop the 5 across the middle and go with 3 up front with Giroud and Rudiger to both start. KTBFFH

CFC1905

 

United fans split on Mourinho

The debate on this page has become so interesting recently. The fans are split down the middle in my opinion with half wanting Mourinho out and the other half still “tolerating” him and giving him space to complete his contract. One thing we all seem to agree on however, is that the style of play is too dull despite our points total being by far the best since SAF retiring – testament to how unlikable our incumbent manager is.

I think some of the opinions on here are unfairly critical of the manager who attracts criticism like flies to shite regardless of his consistent delivery against his KPIs thus far while at the same time it is unquestionable that the attacking talent in the team is being hamstrung by either the manager’s tactics, man management, or both.

The opinions in defence of the club from the usual suspects are similarly extreme and sound like “bed wetting” since we all understand the term. Defending the club regardless of disappointing results, performances, and entertainment value is similarly misguided.

Personally, I look at that league table and see City with 100 points playing a magnificent brand of football. It makes me feel angry and jealous but I do not lose sight of the fact that the simplistic, false dichotomy of a straight comparison between the apparent skills of Mourinho vs Guardiola fed to us by media is bollocks. City have been working towards this grand vision’s fruition for at least a decade while United have been floundering with Woodward, Moyes, and van Gaal. The assignment of blame for the ills of this club needs to stop being so shortsighted towards the incumbent manager.

The rebuilding job for Manchester United has been championed by Mourinho since he arrived. We are no longer the laughing stock we were before because we have won trophies in that period. We cannot be slagged off by opposition supporters because we have beaten every single team in the league this season plus we’ve finished 2nd, we cannot be told that we are “flat track bullies” because we have beaten City, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal, and Chelsea since the turn of the year. We are without doubt, a more competitive opponent.

That being said, we are dealing with an extremely dull style of play with Mourinho failing to develop a big temperamental young talent in Martial. Add to that, Mourinho routinely criticizes his players in public and sometimes makes comments that make me think: “what a twat”. The kicker on Mourinho’s demerit card is the embarrassing tactics he employed against Sevilla which led to an unacceptably early Champions League exit.

I have said before that I am backing Mourinho until the year closes and I stand by that. His work (results wise) speaks for itself thus far – the trajectory has steadily been upwards in terms of results which was exactly what this football club needed when he arrived (many take our improved results for granted on here because of his massive profile and the worldclass standards he gets held to).

If Mourinho is unable to get the attack to “click” by the year’s end (I suspect he will replace Rui Faria with an assistant coach who will bring about attacking ambition and style) then I want him to be removed with a big “thank you for the good work sorting out this mess”. The next appointment will then be tasked with building on the solid work done by Mourinho if that situation transpires.

In short, let’s try be a bit more balanced in our assessments of where we were, where we are, and where we are going.

hatters

 

‘Solid work?’

What is the “solid work” Mourinho is doing?
Keeping Smalling-Jones-Young making Valencia the captain?
Hangs on to Fellaini like a backstage groupie?
Replacing youngsters with 29ers?
Breaking the wage structure for what?
Why cant he make players better?
Where is the gameplan of attacking football?
I see no creative things in possession,all i see is 10 individuals playing with way to many touches on the ball not knowing if the goal is south or north.
There is no direct play,triangels,one two´s or combinations what so ever.
Cant believe that he thinks he is not the culprit of all this.
And i cant believe some of you after 2 years and 300M spent still think he is doing a solid work.

Well,there is one good thing and that was kicking out Rooney.

Zico

 

‘Wage structure fine’

@zico. Let me try debate your points even though you are notorious for being unable to modify your views (my answers are emboldened):

What is the “solid work” Mourinho is doing?

We have our best points total and finish in the league since the great man retired, we have won the Europa League, League Cup, and are in the FA Cup final for this season plus we consistently beat the top 6 clubs.

Keeping Smalling-Jones-Young making Valencia the captain?

Shocking stuff to say the least. I am sure that Mourinho doesn’t keep these players because they are “good lads”. Have you thought about the possible financial constraints involved? Do you think Woodward and Mourinho might have a 5 year plan? Do you you think that if Mourinho was sacked tomorrow the next manager could replace these players with worldclass options like City do?

Hangs on to Fellaini like a backstage groupie?

Unacceptable footballer who shames the badge but Mourinho keeps him because he can always bring a “plan B”. I fully agree with you here, Fellaini has no place in our squad for the long run, regardless of his effectiveness but again, the manager is a pragmatist looking for all avenues to find the win.

Replacing youngsters with 29ers?

Unacceptable. If we lose Martial because of the Sanchez transfer, the writing will be on the wall. If however, we lose Luke Shaw for Alex Sandro then I will rejoice for the great talent and application we will gain instead of a lazy piece of something

Breaking the wage structure for what?

The wage structure is perfectly fine. We’ve got rid of Zlatan and Rooney recently and besides that, the numbers simply say that we are paying less than before. Sanchez aside (because he was free).

Why cant he make players better?

He has made Lingard, Rojo (last season before injury), McTominay, Lukaku, and Young better players individually but perhaps you need to look at the massive point difference improvement fist Zico – this is a football club looking for results, it is not an academy looking to improve individuals. I don’t care who improves – the team has improved and that is all that matters.

Where is the gameplan of attacking football?

Nowhere. It is known that Mourinho does not actually coach his team on attacking phases of play and lets the attackers do as they please. This is by far his biggest weak point.

I see no creative things in possession,all i see is 10 individuals playing with way to many touches on the ball not knowing if the goal is south or north.
There is no direct play,triangels,one two´s or combinations what so ever.
Cant believe that he thinks he is not the culprit of all this.
And i cant believe some of you after 2 years and 300M spent still think he is doing a solid work.

The proof is in the pudding Zico. 38 games and 81 points with a 2nd place finish and a Champions League Quarter Final – every single one of these metrics are better than they were last season and are immeasurably better than van Gaal’s final season. You are justified in questioning the direction, style, and future prospects but I take exception to how readily you dismiss the good work of a worldclass professional doing good work for the club you support. I think in good time you will come to realize how important Mourinho’s tenure was for us because we are now in a position to complain about a second place finish and an FA Cup final. We are now finally starting to judge the club as we did when SAF was in the job but yet Mourinho has not had the time to f**k up like SAF did in his first three years and he hasn’t had the patience of people like you. Such is modern football. It’s nice and easy to say 300 million because it’s a big number for you but Barcelona have spent more than that on Dembele and Coutinho alone. PSG have spent 1.5 times that on Neymar and Mbappe alone. Guardiola has spent that on his defence alone in 18 months. Try your best to be fair and neutral to your club Zico, I know you hate being fair on the club but try your best.

hatters

 

‘Only decent team we’ve beaten in cup is Tottenham’

 

@hatters – You know I enjoy a meaty in-depth discussion so forgive me if I comment on your points.

1] Once again progress is being measure solely in terms of silverware. And mickey mouse cups at that. You cite League Cup win as evidence of “solid work” yet by the same yardstick shouldn’t our League Cup exit be evidence of regression. You cite Europa League, a trophy we won by beating second level teams but omit our humiliating CL exit a year later to a second level team. Let’s be honest, the only decent team we’ve beaten in our cup runs to date is Spurs in the FA cup semi. And we’ve scraped by many small clubs.

You cite our beating top6 clubs (that is good) but omit our defeats to newly promoted sides. Yes 2nd. is an achievement, agreed. But is it evidence of solid work. You are working backwards. Good work means improving the team and that improvement leads to improved results. You are looking at the output (trophies) and concluding it means the work must have been good. There is a lot of luck in football, results alone are not evidence of good work.

You should look at all factors. Are performances improving. Are the signings goods. Are players improving, is a team taking shape, is the fear factor back, is the mood and morale improving. Are we any the more confident of success today than we were 2 years ago when LvG lifted the FA cup ?

2] I doubt Ed would agree a 5 year plan then give JM a 3 year contract. That makes no sense. You are plucking the 5 year plan out of thin air.

Yes I’m sure financial constraints play a large part in keeping deadwood BUT when Jose is begging Fellaini to stay and praising other deadwood it must say something. JM could easily keep quiet. And should we not look at JM signings. Had Pogba done the business he could be a shoo-in captain.

3] Howcome people didn’t praise Moyes as a pragmatist for signing plan B Fellaini. You and others crucified Moyes for the signing yet now praise Jose for not getting rid of him.

4] Focus on veteran players is an example of the fear JM is more concerned about a short term one-off title than the long term health of the club. But let’s see what happens in the summer.

5] Wages is down to Ed so we can’t blame JM for that. And JM will be impacted when it comes to summer signings and total wage bill.

6] Its moot if he has made those players better. But whats the sense in improving Young Rojo and not Pogba Martial Rashford Shaw Mikki Depay etc. He improves the deadwood so they can be kept but doesn’t improve the players who have the potential to be world class ????

7] I doubt JM coaches. He decides the strategy and lets the assistants coach. Have we seen pictures of Jose on the training field?

8] The pudding analagy is hogwash. I should know, I am a IS09000 quality system inspector for a certification body. The pudding could be good by sheer chance. Quality Assurance is, if the inputs – the cook, the recipe, the ingredients, the utensils are all good THEN the output, the pudding, must be good. You have it arse to face.

=========
Your praising of JM (worldclass professional) is indication of your bias. Managers like players can lose their touch, look at Wenger. The situation at United is unlike that in JMs previous clubs. LvG came with pedigree as well you remember. And like LvG JM has been fired from clubs. I wish I could dig out your comments on LvG.

You are sticking your neck out banking on JM success. If he doesn’t succeed and the next manager moans about the players and mindset he inherited you will have a lot of egg on your face.

MacGuffin