Liverpool fans discuss Emre Can’s contract demands, while Arsenal fans discuss “losing market share” and the club “milking and exploiting brand loyalty”, all in our forum.
This is the start of s run of 7 games in 22 days for us.
A draw away to the likes of City is a decent result here but that doesn’t mean we will have to settle for it. Can see a team like….
Migs, TAA, Matip, Lovren, Moreno, Hendo, Can, Wij, Salah, Firmino, Mané…. being played.
Don’t see Coutinho starting this or the CL game. Sub appearances possible.
Can see Ox getting game time too depending on how the game progresses.
Think we just need to keep it tight and hit them on the break when they f*** up.
I think that there is no hope of either Coutinho or Ox starting, neither will be at the fitness Klopp demands.
Remember when he first arrived he said none of the Liverpool team were fit enough, I think he would say the same about the Arsenal team and so goes it with Ox.
Same team as the Arsenal game for me, only with Rebertson possibly in for Moreno. Although haven’t seen enough of Robertson yet to say he will be our no 1 LB. Think a draw away would be a good result.
If Can is interested only in securing a small release clause into his contract, then I don’t think we should be caving in and delivering it.
Our current project is higher up the food chain than Juventus. If he is set on a move let’s just give him a free transfer. In the world of football few things compare to a genuine push for the title with Liverpool FC. Securing that trophy with moves like his bicycle kick last season would cement his name in folklore like no other trophy out there bar the World Cup.
The club can also offer higher wages, the only promise we should have to give to him is that he will never have to worry about a thing in his life after leaving the club.
Cause that 10% loyalty fee I’m talking about should always be paid out at the end of his contract. He wouldn’t even have to pay that high taxes on it as it could be classified as image rights.
This club ain’t no stepping stone and if players are not committed beyond their contracts they need to leave when it expires.
It’s very simple really Can position seemingly is that he will only sign a new Liverpool contract if it includes a buy out clause that he is happy with,I suspect he probably wouldn’t accept anything more than £30m.
It would be in Liverpool’s interest to reach agreement with Can on this otherwise they will lose him for nothing next summer anyway and if it’s not in place soon Can can sign a a pre contract agreement with Juve for instance in just 4 months and walk away for free next Summer.
FSG are run by very successful businessmen that take sensible decisions that benefit their companies they don’t live in the fantasy world of some football fans who base their views on emotions. Lose Can for nothing or agree an acceptable buy out clause that would net the club circa £30m were he to be sold is a no brainer for them.
Worth remembering too that Liverpool benefitted from a £9.75m buy out clause in his Leverkusen contract when they bought him.
nine nine nine
Am always cautious about away games that follow the international break.
Morata played full 90 minutes for Spain. Also Pedro played full 90. But the good news is Azpi didn’t feature for Spain.
But regardless of that i will be delighted if we win the game Fabregas, David Luiz, Bakayoko, DrinkWater , Alonso all stayes behind. And I suspect bar Drinkwater the rest will start.
Azpi – Luiz- Rudiger.
Bench, Cabalero, Christensen, zapacosta, Bakayoko, DrinkWater, Masounda,Willian and Batshuayi. That is a very decent bench despite the media storm surrounding our squad depth.
While people are busy monitoring the Costa saga, i took time to follow the Morata progress. and i have to say i’m delighted to have such a talented striker at our disposal. once he settles like Costa. he will be an asset for the club.and let us remember that he has scored 5 goals in 5 matches for club and country since he joined us.
although Costa was great player, he is not compatible with our club. he is a disgrace to our club. and if Conte said he has enough of this Conte antics. some posters need to respect the position of the manager and club.
i don’t think if he has anyone who supports his disgraceful behaviour this summer. even the historically anti Chelsea football pundits have backed the club over Costa. but in Morata we have a player who is a goal poacher as well as quicker than Costa, but more importantly has no fiery character. another one i have observed, Morata is taking up the same positions that Costa had been taking. so some people who re jumping to the conclusion should be reminded, its actually Conte that develops this philosophy.
I would be very interested to see the reaction of the crowd if Costa did come back to the Club and was picked for a game
I think the majority of us loved him previous to all this mucking about. After the way he has acted and the things he has said I would be interested to see/hear how the crowd reacts. Don’t think they would cheer his name but equally not convinced he would be booed…? KTBFFH
Irrespective of the fans, the club hierarchy controls its destiny. No matter how many people attend games, the real money is in merchandising and television revenue.
When the team, does not perform, or is not in the top flight competitions. They do not acquire the next generation of support base to continue revenue income. This might seem like a contradictory argument, but it is in a way a symbiotic relationship.
The clubs that are in the top sections of the league, or win trophies (Big trophies) not only get the associated prizes (Cash), but also get the next generations of fan support. Therefore, if they do not feature, the new fans go elsewhere,
The days of “home town” supporters is gone. Maybe still in the lower leagues but at the top it’s only winners who get followed.
Arsenal, are on the slippery slope. as it stands they are losing “market share” by not being in the top four, or champions/l.
Players do not want to come to Arsenal as they it is seen, as a dead end with no prospects of glory, through achievement in the competitive environment.
By losing their position of interest, they lose revenue. By losing the spotlight, they do not attract the next generation fan base. To coin a phrase, “Fall out the bus”.
Us “Old farts” who have supported the club for many years, don’t count for much. The new kids are the ones who shell out the cash for shirts and whatever. This is the new business model.
If you look at all sports. The top clubs are forming into international leagues, competitions. The money gets better, thus attracting more coverage and the new generation of supporter cash input.
As with cricket, Rugby and, in my opinion, very soon soccer. There will be a super league of the world’s top teams. Premier league will be like second tier. You can imagine what this will do to soccer worldwide. Big money for a few, scraps for the rest.
The new generation only understand success. Arsenal, like many past teams are fast becoming yesterdays news. Not only are the competition getting better, the whole ballgame is in transition.
I hope we don’t say, “What Happened”.
Gooner for life.
In other words, Gooner54, the club is perfectly happy milking and exploiting brand loyalty while forgetting that it has an obligation within that symbiotic relationship to fulfill but is failing to.
It’s akin to getting up every morning and bottling milk or gathering up golden eggs, forgetting/neglecting the fact that you’re supposed to feed the cows and the geese to enable them to produce sustainably.
I have no doubt that we will look back at this time in our history and see that we missed a trick. We took a massive gamble on our future by staking it all on FFP. Well, how’s that working out?
We’re not manufacturing those stars we mandated that we would. We’re not finding those diamonds in the rough for a pittance. We’re not turning talented players into players of stature in the game. We’re not making the club attractive enough as a place to either come to play your football, or to remain after you reach the next level. We’re not even making profits from player sales anymore – remember when that was annoying?! Now it’s non-existent!
They should have continued to invest in the club, especially the playing personnel. They should have continued to keep us relevant, competitive – whatever the cost. Because it would have always, ALWAYS been a worthwhile investment!
These were their obligations, to mention but a few, as a party to that “symbiotic” relationship and they have failed. Simple and plain! And now we always find ourselves one step behind, loathe to speculate in order to accumulate:
“We won’t pay 30m, that’s silly money… Financial doping, blah blah blah…
“Okay, we’ll pay 30m… It’s now 40m? No, we won’t pay that…
“Okay, now we will pay 40m… It’s now 60m? No, we won’t pay that…” etc etc
The best time to plant a tree was 20yrs ago, BUT the second best time is now. The fact that we do not seem to be acknowledging the error of our ways and rectifying how we run the club is even more damning because, in the fast-pace industry that football is, the fall from grace can and quite possibly will only get quicker and harder!
I think Barber has encapsulated the debate far better than I. Thank you Barber.
Any club that loses its appeal to the market forces, in anyway that affects its popularity, is in trouble. One must always be attuned to the sentiment of those who support it, and what makes them select their club, over all the other, equally attractive clubs.
Remember it is now an international selection that is available, not just local. From Africa I can watch just about any team live and purchase all associated products at the click of a mouse. Even my Dog has an Arsenal collar.
This is a fickle situation for the people running the club, as can be seen on this group. It has been identified that certain areas need attention. I won’t go into these, as we have all voiced them many times over. What they are causing is that the “team” is losing popularity. Both to prospective quality players, and the supporting fans ALL over the world.
This is, if not rectified now, the tipping point, that sends the “product” off the shelves, or out the money pocket required to keep it sustainable.
Nowadays, for loyalty get a Dog, or an old Gooner.
Barber and TSO thanks for your interesting interactions and valued (even if not always agreed with) viewpoints. Although I think, in this, we are in agreement, that things are not good and need swift correction within the club we hold as special.
Good luck for Saturday, I will be watching as per usual. If at the ground, I support you if you give “Le Boss” the finger. You can say it came from, “Afrique du sud”, if he asks.
Gooner for life.
Gooner54 & Romford Ray, The club are entirely responsible for the mess we are in but apathetic fans have allowed them to get away with it. One of the main issues now is we don’t actually have fans any more, we have customers.
The club looks on fans as customers and many attendees at The Emirates have no history of supporting a football club. These people are corporate tourists and I have had experience of them in Club Level, you expect them in corporate boxes but not amongst fans.
These days it is about sponsorship and merchandising, unfortunately Arsenal aren’t very good at it. Even Cup Final tickets are allocated on the basis of who pays the most for their seats, only mugs think otherwise. Its all about making as much money as possible and sitting on it.
Allowing a manager to have a profit sharing agreement and shares in the club is a mistake, not sacking Wenger years ago is a mistake, not sacking him during this summer is a major error. The only saving grace is that Wenger is now on borrowed time.
Right, International football is gone for another month, the transfer window is shut and the premier league returns on Saturday – the season really does start here. No more transfer speculation and no more waiting to see how we get on in the first few games, that’s all been done and we need to kick on now.
Last season we started with 3 wins as well so that doesn’t really tell us much about how far this United team has come or where they will finish up in May. One thing that would indicate we’ve made a great start to the season, is a win at Stoke. Couldn’t believe it when i read we’ve not won there since 2013 – 4 years!!
A couple of years back they had a very good home record and it was tough to win there, but i think that changed last season and we need to be going to the likes of Stoke and winning if we’re serious contenders for the league. Lukaku seems to be scoring in every game he plays in at the moment so i’m expecting him to have a big impact and score a couple of goals.
I agree largely that the season starts now(ish). The first few games after the summer can always be deceptive. Some teams (players) haven’t had pre-season or time to train with the team. And there’s still the summer holiday mood in players, like the back to school first weeks (you know about that happy).
BUT for me the biggest factor is weather. The English game is played predominant over autumn-winter with rain, wind, snow and cold etc. An away game against Stoke on a cold windy evening in November is not the same as one in August or early Septemeber. For this reason, I don’t think Stoke will be quite the hurdle it normally is.
I expect Stoke to make a real fist of this game with players like Bojan and Jese testing Bailly and Jones to the hilt. Now this is the type of game where I expect us to be as solid as any Mourinho team with Matic (and possibly Herrera starting for the first time) screening the defence plus I expect we will play a fairly deep backline with a compact setup.
This will not be as easy as the game against Swansea in Wales but I expect that we will batter them because of the wide gulf in quality between the two sides. If we finish our chances we should walk away with a good scoreline after a hard fought game.
Hopefully players like Rashford, Lukaku, and Pogba carry their good international form into the weekend.