A lack of respect

This topic contains 35 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by MrMakaveli MrMakaveli 7 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #1430761
    The Fulcrum
    The Fulcrum
    Participant
    • :

    Does anyone else think that Klopp has shown a complete lack of respect to Hull and other opposition by playing Lucas at CB for these games? It’s tantamount to saying we don’t think we need to play our best possible defence against you, we’ll load heavy up front and that’ll do it. Well it hasn’t worked and seems outrageous to be trying when a win is so badly needed.
    Lucas is not a CB.
    He would not get his place as a starting CB for any other premier league team!
    He would likely only start for the lower ranked teams as a DM by now.
    Nice guy, dedicated, can fill a gap…. blaa blaa blaa. Simple answer is that he hasn’t been good enough for lfc for a long time now.
    The excuse of we are short of players in that position won’t fly either. We’ve had two windows to sign a better defender. We have a 20m rated CB on loan! We turned a profit on our summer transfer business when TV rights had ensured all PL teams could spend well!
    I’d rather we played the youngsters in defence Ghana Lucas, at least they can improve and build on the position….. for goodness sake, didn’t we originally sign Lucas as an attacking midfielder?! Is he going to start as our goal keeper next season?!

    #1430781

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    Lovren and Klavan were both out.
    Gomez is massively inexperienced at centreback.
    Who else was there?

    #1430789
    The Fulcrum
    The Fulcrum
    Participant
    • :

    A fair point Ginger but hardly a problem that we couldn’t see coming and had the resources to do something about. The point is, has Klopp underestimated and in doing so shown a lack of respect against the so called lesser teams in this league.

    #1430807

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    If your point is we should have brought in a centreback when Sakho was ostracised I’m right behind you, but you’re saying Klopp disrespected Hull by playing Lucas when he didn’t really have any other option.

    #1430810

    Mikus
    Participant
    • :

    I think Klopp has underestimated the premier league. He’s already bemoaned the defensive nature of teams, and also the way these teams treat set plays with the more physical players they have. At the end of the summer he bemoaned the fans for being obsessed about the transfer window. I suspect he’s now realising why. Just one final point: the long contract extension Klopp penned last summer – has that made him feel like there’s now less rush to get on with the job & he can now be more patient & take his time? Not normally a big fan of Didi as a pundit, but this got me thinking:

    #1430844

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    I though what Hamann said made a lot of sense.

    #1430861

    Mikus
    Participant
    • :

    Yeah, he can be quite outspoken Didi, don’t always agree with him but that piece was spot on. You just wonder if there was an element of the Moyes situation when he got offered a 6 year contract? There would just feel less of a rush then to do things and at the end of last summer’s window Klopp said it was now all about “coaching the players he had” and to stop being “obsessed with the transfer window”. Did the club just get besotted with Klopp thinking we had to first and foremost nail down the “messiah” and he would then work his magic? It went to plan in the first half of the season, but we’ve seen what happened at the halfway mark. Patience is all well & good, but it’s like we prioritised it over everything else. If we don’t make the top 4 this season (and just look how strong City, Utd & Spurs all now look), I fail to see what the purpose of this season has actually been? The defence is still out of sorts and the attack is dependent on 3/4 players all being available.

    #1430874
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
    • :

    Is there a chance Fulcrum that you were unaware of Lovren and Klavan being unavailable? It’s no sin because I too was quite shocked to see Lucas starting and only heard that Lovren and Klavan were unavailable as the match had started.

    To answer your question as if Klopp had a choice though I do have one thing to say and that is that in my opinion, Lucas is not as bad at CB as fans make him out to be. He’s not the perfect CB for sure and at times will play a little like he’s in midfield (the way he tackles or how he’s been in possession) but I think a lot of the negativity around him in that role has come on the back of some horrible team performances where he’s made a mistake like those around him.

    So with that kinda background on the topic I don’t think it is disrespectful to play Lucas against any PL team, I wouldn’t have him as first choice but think as a stand in CB he’s far from the joke that people make him out to be.

    #1430894
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
    • :

    As for what Didi said and FSG as a whole this season, ya we should have taken a more progressive and ambitious look at improving our team. It’s worth noting that FSG’s strategy this season has been quite different than we’re used to and I would suggest that it is one that is not geared towards football success but that of business.

    For whatever reason FSG have decided to trim the fat at LFC and lock its assets down as securely as possible. regardless of what else they should have done in the summer transfer window, what they did do was quite prudent. They made a profit in their dealings and moved forward with a leaner, better team. So even if we might say that they weren’t exactly flowing with ambition, we shouldn’t forget this.

    Now why would FSG have a strategy at the club where they reigned in ambition in favour of a well oiled machine? Why would they also seemingly prioritise securing the clubs main assets on long term contracts again over securing new players? It’s a topic worthy of investigation, discussion and speculation if you ask me. I’m not a business man but I have a number of possible answers :

    1) That FSG maximising the clubs value, cleaning up the books with a view to selling the club.

    2) That they were maximising efficiency for a season in order to create a good foundation for a new ambitious project the following summer.

    3) The new stand costs have thrown our books off balance.

    As for number 3, I don’t know what the loan from FSG is costing the club each season so that could be a non-runner.

    #1430926

    Mikus
    Participant
    • :

    Mr Mak, given that we were apparently willing to spend money in January to the point of “overspending” I suspect FFP wasn’t an issue last summer. Whether Klopp underestimated the players he needed in the more competitive and grueling premier league or whether FSG wanted to play more safe and cautious I dont know but I think prioritising the contract extension put us on the wrong footing. Did both FSG & Klopp feel that naive to the point they thought they only needed a smallish budget to go into a new season? Well they’ve found out the hard way if they did.

    #1430939
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
    • :

    Mikus, none of what I said above was in relation to FFP but more towards the clubs actual accounts.

    Prioritising contracts over improvements is very much a business strategy and not really a footballing one, in a sense so ya naturally we’re going to be unhappy with it.

    I can’t decide in my own mind whether FSG are getting ready for a big summer and a new show of ambition though or if they are getting ready for a sale.

    I hope that they have the ambition and motivation to flesh out of squad with quality over the summer as we absolutely have been found wanting (regardless of who’s fault it is). If FSG have the desire to really try and go for success on the field then I’m 100% behind them as they no fools but given our clubs size (5th biggest in the PL financially, I think), it wouldn’t take much effort to assume that we could finish in the CL the odd season without over-exerting ourselves financially. That we could perform as a decent team without over-extending. If you looked at the club as one that finished just outside of the CL as the norm and the odd season in as being a good year, you could probably make more money by willingly settling into this “steady-eddie” kind of role. Now, the way we’ve conducted business this season (through both windows) isn’t as alarming to me as it has been to a few on here but if we were to continue in this way through the next transfer window, I would get worried.

    #1430972

    Sean the sailor
    Participant
    • :

    I was one of the few who didn’t go absolutley wild when klopp came I’m. It was great we got someone in with pedigree but People started talking about winning leagues etc and that everything was going to be great. I certainly didn’t. He did well in Germany but coming to us was a massive test. You go wild with happiness when a manager achieves something. Not when he first wake through the door.

    It’s the same old shite time and time again. We all get a bit optimistic and then it all goes downhill. What we are seeing now is us falling apart at an alarming rate. People will say we are two points off 4th and in two weeks time will say we are 5 points off fourth and cling into that bit of hope. I won’t as I can only see us getting worse and don’t think we will see anything change till next season.Saturday was abysmal. To concede another two goals like that is criminal. Will we ever learn? We are a laughing stick yet again because our fans go overboard after a good few months. If we are going like that for two years then ye get carried away and say we have turned a corner. This is appalling at the minute. We have massive problems and I never envisaged such a collapse like this. I thought we would hit bad form but not this.it should be no shorter though as we have seen such collapses under Rafa, houllier, kenny and Rodgers.

    Let klopp see out his 6 years. We can’t sack another manager. We are in the middle of a rebuilding period yet again. Just give him time. its absolute shite st the minute but if the owners sack klopp then I really do give up

    #1430990
    The Fulcrum
    The Fulcrum
    Participant
    • :

    I’ll come clean, I didn’t realise Lucas was the only available option

    #1430999

    Sean the sailor
    Participant
    • :

    Fulcrum, the huge problem is, how the fook is Lucas our 4th choice centre back? It’s crazy. A lot of people have said it, we knew the sahko situation but we didn’t get another centre back in.

    There’s a huge problem somewhere. Either fsg are holding funds and not supporting the manager or we just couldnt get the players we wanted.

    This team has shown it can play great football. It was so great to watch. I believe we will see that football consistently again under klopp but not this season. So many players our out of form and confidence is at an all time low. I just can’t suddenly seeing it clicking again this season.i predicted 6th and that’s were we will finish

    #1431000
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
    • :

    Sorry Sean but I like to look forward in hope of what can be achieved rather than only enjoying something after it’s been done. The fact is that now that we’re doing poorly, you’re happy to say how bad we’ll be doing in a few weeks but you are unhappy to do the same in a positive way when things are going well.

    I genuinely laughed out loud at you claiming that we’re a “laughing stick”, just sounded silly. . but I don’t think we’re a laughing stock, far from it. We’ve played some of the best football in the league this season so whoever is laughing at us is an idiot. We’re collapsing in epic fashion, ya and there are many factors in why and how this has come about, hopefully at least some of them can be worked out over the next week or 2, others will take a lot longer.

    it would be totally insane to even consider firing Klopp, if that were to happen I’d be right with you in abandoning this club. I’m deadly serious too but I know FSG won’t be that stupid, although if we were to not win in another 4 or 5 matches I think the woodwork would be crawling with muppets calling for a P45 to be issued.

    Now Sean, That would be an embarrassment. Dreaming of success while watching your team at the top of the table and playing the best football around is not, in my opinion anyway . . we clearly won’t agree there.

    #1431008

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    In reality Lovren shouldn’t be a first choice centreback in a team that has ambitions of winning the title.
    He should be first sub option for centreback with maybe Gomez as 4th choice although I remain unconvinced by that as he has so little experience playing that position.
    If I has really honest Klavan should be 4th choice.

    #1431010
    mwake
    mwake
    Participant
    • :

    I didn’t watch the game, but one thing I’ve noticed is Klopp trying to shoehorn Dortmund style tactics into this team. For example one thing I’ve seen a few times is defenders playing a high line. I’m not sure we can play that high line with Lovren, Klavan and Lucas.

    I love klopp but also I wonder about the fact that we are overstocked with attacking midfielders too. Mane, Firminio, Lallana, Coutinho (and even Winaljdum) have cost us a combined value of 93 million (approx). How much have we spent on strikers and defensive midfielders for the same period? I think it is about around 72 million (Sturrigde 12m, Benteke 30m, Can 10m, Ings and Origi 20m). I know some of the positions for certsin players are subjective like Winaljdum and Firminio but one thing is for sure is that we don’t have any ‘pure’ (competent) strikers or defensive midfielders…. People are criticising Klopp for tactical naivety but he doesn’t have enough of a balanced deck to play with what can you do… Klopp will be furious with how wev have collapsed but also partly accept that he didn’t buy enough players for certain areas. I think we’ll see more quality players next year and expect a few players to be ejected from the squad. I’d even go as far as saying even Henderson should have completion for his position, no one should be safe.

    #1431060

    liverlad
    Participant
    • :

    When we beat Arsenal early in the season, I was staying at Shrigley Hall & watched the match at the golf club, there was a lot of Man U supporters present, I was having good banter with them & when the final whistle went I went in front of them all & shouted Yeh!!!
    A load of them got up & sang “your going to win the league” Why do you think that? because they think we are a laughing stock with this will be our year, etc.,
    I’ve said it before that optimism by the “cheerleaders” don’t win anything. We have to start with being realists & maybe we could start from there.

    #1431071
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
    • :

    Liverlad that’s pretty amusing stuff given that utd were all talking about winning the league also, much more so and earlier on in fact.

    You lads are talking like you couldn’t wait for it all to go wrong, calling people cheerleaders isn’t going to win you any friends. . Well it might go down well with a few alright. .

    #1431079

    shaunk
    Participant
    • :

    I don’t think it was a lack of respect. I think it’s more an overestimation in Lucas’s ability but as has been said, Gomez was the only alternative.

    I was more annoyed when he picked Lucas over Klavan against Bournemouth.

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