November 8, 2017 at 5:11 am #1555036
I wish fans would stop using Leicester as an example. It was a freak occurence never to be repeated. Look what’s happened to them since.
That’s not to say team cohesion and spirit aren’t critical. But to suggest a team built around cohesion and spirit but without talent is a viable model because of the Leicester example is in my view wrong.
btw – Leicester had luck that season in that top teams had problems and were out of the running.November 8, 2017 at 7:12 am #1555052
“I don’t understand why the blame seems to lie solely on the players with you lot and Jose gets no criticism at all”
It’s always fair to consider whether or not the manager is doing his job well enough. For me, however, the pieces of information gathered from looking at United in a broad perspective don’t form a picture of a manager that isn’t good enough, but rather a picture of a number of players that aren’t good enough.
One thing is track record. It’s not that a player or a manager can’t become bad if they’ve previously been good, but your past contribute to painting a picture of who you are today. When I look at how Jones, Smalling, Lingaard, Darmian and the rest of the Deadwood Brigade have performed in all of their overextended stays with United, I see nothing to suggest that we, in fact, are blessed with players who are actually really good or even just good enough, but are simply mismanaged. Quite the contrary, in fact.
Consider the follwing: Have you experienced a noticable difference in the performance levels of those players across SAF, Moyes, LVG or Mourinho? I certainly haven’t. They’ve always been bad, and for me, completely unscientific logic dictates that four different managers, with very different skill levels and qualities, can’t have mismanaged them to the exact same degree.
Mourinho on the other hand has quite a different track record in terms of performance. A track record that suggests that if he has the right players at his disposal, he gets results.
Now, no manager is perfect, of course. So, obviously there is some truth in your statement about Mourinho not getting the best out of the team. That would apply to any manager. But if you delve a little more deeply into that remark: Which player(s) do you believe would become noticably better than they’ve been in Mourinho’s 1,3 seasons in charge by a change in managerial approach?
I believe that with our strongest line-up and on best possible form, we can match any team in the league. However, injuries happen and dips in form happen. To every team. Every season. But when it happens to us, we’re woefully stretched and quickly have to field an overabundance of deadwood.
For me, the aim and the yardstick by which to meassure all decisions and actions will always be to reach the United standard. When I look at United, I don’t see that the way to get there starts with managerial change-ups, but by casting deadwood aside. Sooner rather than later.November 8, 2017 at 8:23 am #1555066
@nil – Well said again mate,the problem you have got is getting someone with such bizarre ‘tastes’ in football players to admit that the players you listed above plus several others you mentioned recently are deadwood at all,especially when that person still hankers after LvG’s days at the club and has a vehement anti Mourinho agenda.On the contrary he has been insisting for the last two years that they are part of the ‘best squad in the league’,you can’t write the bloody script mate!!!.
You see,it just has to be Jose’s fault that Herrera for example has been performing so badly of late that he reminds me of a very poor man’s Eric Djemba Djemba!.November 8, 2017 at 9:41 am #1555118
Blacky-Sorry mate but the title is gone imho,and as it has been said it already on here by few posters,finishing top4 is our aim now!
ps-can somebody please tell this poster nil to stop posting essays,hehehe!?November 8, 2017 at 9:42 am #1555120
Bloody hell @blacky mate,Eric Djembax2,alongside Kleberson and A.Smith eh?.Those were the days,lol.November 8, 2017 at 10:04 am #1555141
It’s actually so interesting to see the general predictions for the games vs Liverpool, Huddersfield, Spurs, and Chelsea. Most on here predicted 8 points from these games, we would have come close if it weren’t for that shocking loss at Huddersfield. So 4 points gained from those games and we are now in a dogfight for top 4.
As I have mentioned before, this team is limping along until Pogba returns and it appears SkySports have done the homework to prove it. Chances created, big chances per game, and goals scored per game have all literally halved since we lost Pogba. A damning indictment on the quality of our squad. As MacGuffin has described in another post with his furniture analogy, I feel like if we walk into this house we find a shiny grand piano in the corner (Pogba), an impressive chandelier (De Gea) above a decent, oak dining room set (Matic, Lukaku, Rashford, Bailly, and Martial). The problem is the rest of the house is furnished poorly with old, tacky fittings and a few cheap pieces from Ikea.
I wanted a title challenge to last till May this season and unless City are allergic to winter I just don’t see it happening at this point. The gulf in quality is immense.November 8, 2017 at 10:05 am #1555142
@nil. Perfect response to manthisle there. Pity it will fall on deaf ears. He has lost his powers of reasoning when it comes to anything relating to Mourinho.November 8, 2017 at 1:10 pm #1555284
redblood – Yes, we can beat anyone on our day but thats true of most teams. Crystal Palace can beat anyone on their day a la Chelsea. It’s more likely though that we won’t and I stand by my 7 points maximum prediction.November 8, 2017 at 1:25 pm #1555298
Please ignore Blacky’s ramblings. He’s got it stuck in his head that I’m a fan of LvG, that I think we’ve got the best squad in the league and that I think the sun shines out of Lingard’s, Herrera’s, Carrick’s, Mata’s, Rooney’s and probably many more players’ arseholes which is not the case.
You mentioned players pasts painting a picture. I would argue that Jose knows all to well how shite Darmian is and has been yet still prefers him over a player like Shaw who based on past viewing appeared to be going in the right direction under LvG prior to his horrific injury.
You asked if I’ve seen any improvements in any of the players. Well I would say last season Herrera looked immensely better under Mourinho but for some reason this season has looked poor. Rashford and Martial looked better under LvG then they do under Mourinho. Shaw certainly looked better as did Blind with his partnership with Smalling. Fellaini looks better under Mourinho. Many would argue that Valencia has improved which is backed up by his Fifpro nomination. Many of the players have been signed by Mourinho and I would argue that only Bailly and Pogba look like being worthwhile purchases.November 8, 2017 at 2:49 pm #1555343
MT-But we are discussing United here,not any other teams,which of course is very true.Tbh I`m saying this in hope than being realistic!November 8, 2017 at 3:17 pm #1555363
@Manny – Those ‘ramblings’ are basically just a brief synopsis of things that you have recorded on this forum over the last couple of years mate.I could have highlighted much more!.
Anyway,I’m glad at least to see that you agree that Darmian is shite,because other than all of Jose’s signings being shite I always got the impression that not a single one of LvG’s was in your view,so I’ll take it!.November 8, 2017 at 3:37 pm #1555381
The only difference between Luke Shaw and Memphis Depay is that one of them is English. All of LvG, Pochettino, and Mourinho have cited Shaw’s unprofessionalism and lack of drive at some point. Granted Darmian is an average player but at least he hasn’t been lackadaisical or fat like Shaw is. I mean this fella has looked average in the u23s FFS. The continued fan and media support Luke Shaw enjoys is because of his nationality, end of.
@manthistle. It’s rather interesting that you would rather see Blind do well in a central defensive partnership with Smalling to the detriment of the club instead of the club getting proper defenders in. Blind and Smalling?? Seriously? You make it so difficult for us to take you seriously.November 8, 2017 at 3:48 pm #1555397November 8, 2017 at 3:54 pm #1555402
I don’t think his nationality has anything to do with it…if Lyon has come in and offered 15m for Shaw I dare say we’d have taken it.November 8, 2017 at 4:23 pm #1555419
Let`s hope Southampton come in with a £30m offer for Shaw!November 8, 2017 at 4:40 pm #1555427
I’d hire the articulated lorry required and drive him there myself if they offered that redblood. I’d happily take Ryan Bertrand back up the motorway with me too.November 8, 2017 at 4:47 pm #1555432
Just for clarity I’ll run through the signings and my opinion so you can save them to your desktop and rehash as you see fit.
Valdez – great for a back up keeper but LvG strangely fell out with him
Blind – Good utility player. Always useful to have in the squad. not first team quality.
Di Maria – great signing but never really wanted to be here. LvG messed up his position and his form dropped after injury
Falcao – great signing but never recaptured his monaco form
Rojo – Shit at left back but better under Jose as a centre back. Still should be squad player at best
Shaw – good signing. Young and has potential. Looked great until his injury and has not earned Jose’s trust.
Herrera – Good signing. Was disappointing under LvG but impressed me last season. This season is a worry.
Martial – great signing
Romero – Has shown he is an able replacement for de Gea when required.
Schweinsteiger – shit signing
Schneiderlin – Many would say he was crap but I don’t think he was given enough time under Jose
Darmian – He was Italy’s right back when we signed him but he’s been shit.
Depay – Had potential but his attitude rivals ravel morrisons so was best to get rid.
Pogba – good signing. Getting better over time. There is potential for him to be world class. Lets hope he gets there.
Mkhitaryan – Not suited to the prem and never will be. Thinks he has too much time on the ball. Never be in the same league as Hazard, Sanchez or De Bruyne.
Zlatan – short term fix but slowed our attacks down. Plus because he was undroppable he hindered Martial and Rashford imo.
Bailly – Shaky start for me but has shown that he’s the real deal.
Lindelof – Shite but theres hope.
Lukaku – Has limitations as a striker which means he will never be any better than he already is.
Matic – good signing. He fills a position in the team that we were crying out for but its a short term fix again.November 8, 2017 at 4:54 pm #1555437
It’s rather interesting that you would rather see Blind do well in a central defensive partnership with Smalling to the detriment of the club instead of the club getting proper defenders in
That’s not what I said at all. I said that Blind played better under LvG than he does now under Jose. His best period at Utd was when he formed a partnership with Smalling at centre back. Not once did I say we should have Blind as our first team centre back.November 8, 2017 at 5:03 pm #1555439
Manthistle – I broadly agree with your assessment but what I don’t get is how you can say great or good then follow it with negatives eg. Di Maria – great signing but never really wanted to be here. LvG messed up his position and his form dropped after injury
How is it a great signing to sign a player who doesn’t want to be here and who went off form?
Similarly …….Shaw – good signing. Young and has potential.
I agree we hoped he would be a good signing but based on his performances and with the benefit of hindsight was he a good signing?
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. You are trying to say the ingredients were good, the cake was good, but it just ended up not tasting good. For me if it doesn’t taste good then its not a good cake and in retrospect I wish I hadn’t bought it.November 8, 2017 at 5:26 pm #1555447
Hatters – I agree that the Huddersfield result was a shocker. I’d actually say it’s the only really poor result we’ve had all season. Time for a reaction now and I expect the team to go on another winning run.
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