Brighton

This topic contains 48 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Gooner54 6 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #1541697

    fatmop
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    • :

    I’ll try again Shifty. Arsenal used zonal marking before Wenger came. Wenger did not bring it in! Once again google Lee Dixon on zonal marking and come back when you have done that.

    #1541706
    Gunjam74
    Gunjam74
    Participant
    • :

    All this fom Brighton…anyway

    defending—man to man…has flaws…if the player being marked is lost then he gets free header…conclusion for defence dont lose your man…attackers…how do we get our two (generally) best players into positions that they can get a free(ish) header and how do we get the ball into the area that they will be at the correct moment…

    defending zonal…has flaws..If you give 6ft+ players time and space to run at you and have a player who needs to only pick out an area rather than a man with a cross then his chances increase…defenders…have to know there area and attack the ball when it enters there area…attackers time your run into area and overload areas to hopefully have a free man…make cross runs to divert attention of defender…

    Arsenal problem from a coaches persepctive—-player positioning and lack of agressive players willing to attack the space they are defending results in goals to oppositions…so not surprising that teams with players better suited to aerial duals in the past West Brom/Stoke being prime examples and teams with more agressive players Chelsea/City/Utd beat us to the punch…other teams in our league that may be more aggressive and also have players better suited to aerial duals have not been as good against us because the individual tasked with delivering the set play is not as gifted so statistically we do not lose as many goals against them…stats in everything are flawed and if you rely on published stats alone to prove any arguement then your arguement is flawed…delve deeper into the stats and the most telling aspect will be chances created agaisnt us…think someone on this thread has gone down this path…we do give opponents too many chances now in an entire game…with some tweaking to our players positional sense at vital times in games this can be rectified…this however would result in a reduction in our ability to breakaway and score on the counter…its about balance and for a few seasns now we have not had the balance right in matches…whether thats down to Wengers coaching ability or lack of as some would shout or the players during the game is a mute point for me…the buck in football stops at the manager…thats why Rodgers was given the bullet at Pool despite statistically speaking at the last count I remember he has a better record than Klopp…

    #1541710
    Gunjam74
    Gunjam74
    Participant
    • :

    oh and what fatmop is saying is twitter March 18th Dixon states that we used zonal marking…thats about all I remember of that debate as I am not on twitter and it was mentioned somewhere else…we did (Dixons team) but they where just better at it…more aggressive and better at anticipating flight of the ball…so concede less goals than present team…or the goals they did concede not highlighted at every turn

    #1541716
    AndyC
    AndyC
    Participant
    • : AndyC

    I get we are in top 5 or 6 but as i have said that sonly because we are better thanthe other teams. If you compare the stats agsint the teams above us we are well off! thats just bad defending. Zonal or Man2man it doesnt matter when you have Wenger coaching them. Regardless of it beings wenger team in the invincibles they did still have players around them who were trained by a tactically astute manager (not wenger) that would and did have a big impact.
    I wont dispute it was wengers team but i will 100% disagree with anyone that thinks it was wenger influence that made them so good at defending.
    We have conceded 0 goals in last 4 games, 1 look at the oppo, then secondly look at the chances we have given away due to shit defending and a piss poor base to the midfield. Luck has played a big hand in us not conceding againt these teams. Also we defend the same bad way in all games, more often than not we concede 3+ goals against good quality oppo. Thats not made up thats just fact. its great we didnt concede but you guys need to look at the bigger picture. We cannot defend the way we do and it not be highlighted regardless of the scorline. Thats typical wenger mentality right there, its a huge reason why the muppet is still in charge and why we are BAD at defending.

    #1541733
    The Oracle
    The Oracle
    Participant
    • :

    God this is like pulling teeth. Have you ever seen Arsenal play football, you obviously didnt pre-Clouseau. Yes Fatmop but George Graham zonal marking and Wenger’s version of it are totally different. Wenger’s back5 was organised and they all knew exactly what they were supposed to be doing and no one got a free run at set pieces. Wenger’s version is dont challenge in the air and dont watch for the ball or the man. Thats why he has failed abysmally since the real defenders all left and he replaced them with dross. Thats why we havent won the PL in 13 years and wont win it ever again as long as this fraud remains at the club.

    #1541745

    Jeff
    Participant
    • :

    Fatmop and Stev- cast your mind back to the 2005-06 season. Our two best defenders, Campbell and Cole were injured for large parts of it. Our back four then had to be Eboue, Toure, Senderos and Flamini. Thank God, Wenger allowed Keown to coach the defence for a period as that back four had two jokers in it. Look at the stats for goals conceded in the Champions League that year and why was that? Because we had someone who knew what he was doing as opposed to a manager who once said “I don’t really like the defensive aspect of the game.” This manager does not understand that the defence has to be right before you play so-called attacking football, which we don’t any more so stop saying we do. We do not, we play boring sideways passing, slow football and in desperation, then go kamikaze, with no-one able to track back. Wenger needs to go and most people realise this, but some are so entranced by what was achieved all those years ago, they want him to stay forever. It’s called blind, irrational and crazy infatuation, fatmop and stev.

    #1541757
    Al The Gooner
    Al The Gooner
    Participant
    • :

    Zonal marking/man-marking, Wenger’s defence/Graham’s defence – all can be debated until the cows come home and, quite frankly, not sure why anyone cares. None of it is relevant to the fact that Wenger is seemingly incapable of organising them properly on a consistent basis.

    #1541892
    The Oracle
    The Oracle
    Participant
    • :

    AllTheSooner, the reason you need to care is because this point was central to the debate. My point was without that back5 Wenger would not have won any PL titles and would probably have been sacked. Steve & Fatmop claimed that defence had little to do with Wenger’s success and in Fatmops case Wenger knows what he is doing defensively. Thats why its important, and thats why you should care. Its the central point behind Wenger’s distant successes.

    #1541908

    Gooner54
    Participant
    • :

    Some good arguments here.

    Defensive set up has changed. The three man rush/split attacking move, is there to confuse man marking and overload zonal. Trying to block first man allows the others to break and attack the weak defensive cover.
    However, in saying this other team set ups, seem able to counter the set pieces being used. We are weak at the back against these,and have been for quite a while.
    I used to blame Gibbs, then Monreal and yet have seen “The hulk” caught out by same far post tactic. Therefore cannot be all player fault surely. Bellerin the same on other side. This has improved though, maybe because of back three with wingbacks.
    For my pennies worth, whoever is setting them up is the problem. Tactics change, and must be countered by change where necessary. I would like a stronger, more aerially able central defender, but not at the cost of pace. I’m dreaming, but what the hell.

    GFL.

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