FA Cup 4th Round – Liverpool v Wolves – Saturday 12:30pm BT Sport 2

This topic contains 314 replies, has 30 voices, and was last updated by  ian2105 7 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #1425322

    Moonster
    Participant
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    £30 mill for Sturridge WTF!!! Snatch their hand off, no matter who it is!

    #1425333

    ian2105
    Participant
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    A question back at you bingo – are you actually confident you’d be happy to spend £80-100mil on Can? I won’t say in 5 years time, I’ll give you a chance. How about at any point within Emre Can’s career? So potentially the next 15 years. I don’t think I would ever feel comfortable with that, having seen what he has done in his first 100 games for Liverpool.

    do you think that in these current times of extreme economic uncertainty in Europe and worldwide (china / USA etc) that football fans who are experiencing growing austerity will be able to keep up with average players costing £100mil? I can see a superstar going for £200mil perhaps at some point, but half a billion in 5 years time? What wages will that player demand? What if they got injured?I just don’t see that money in the world right now. Especially not once you bring in financial fair play etc. I know some clubs are financed by sugar daddies, but actually a lot of finance (the incoming finance you’re allowed to spend on players – business income Rather than cash injection) comes directly/indirectly from fans in ticket sales, club march sales, paying for subscriptions to sky or bt sport. even if sponsors want to pay more, they’re taking that money off the man on the street. I don’t see that disposable money in the world right now – not in the hands of the common football fan

    #1425335
    AK
    AK
    Participant
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    I was kind of dreading coming on here today (I tend to stay off the forum on the weekends)

    3 defeats @ home within 7 days

    Thought it would be doom & gloom, pleasantly surprised to find talk of Can & Sturridge being worth Billions (lol)

    On a serious note i am getting a little tired of some peoples simplistic thinking and thus attributing all our problems to the lack of Mane. (got to feel for the lad he looked distraught for missing the pen)

    Why have we had such a slump? Many reason all have been mentioned by myself & others

    The question now is can Klopp & the Team address these problems over the coming months? YES

    Klopp is by far the best manger we could have hoped for. He is not arrogant as some have suggested (on social media)
    He will learn & our young team will learn with him.

    #1425336

    Sean the sailor
    Participant
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    Great thread this lads. A lot of ifs and buts but I see what you mean

    It’s like saying if my aunty had a set of nuts she would be my uncle.

    I say we break the bank and bring Bentley back and leave him in the bench. 10m should get Stephen warnock back from Wigan again guys. Super positive about this window and can see three players at least coming in tomorrow

    #1425471

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
    • :

    The only thing proven about Sturridge ATM is that he is injury prone, can´t last a full game, can only play half a season or less, that he lost his pace. That he can´t score anymore unless he is fed with a golden spoon.

    Yes I would feel comfortable in spending 100 million on a player, its going to be common practice in a few years time. Transfer fees are not going to stagnate all of a sudden, you logic is the same that has been used since the game went pro, that its just too much money.
    If Can is still a German international in 5 years time his value will be close to 80-100million. A new TV-contract will have been signed and that alone will double player prices

    That was the case with the first player that went above 1000 pounds, it was the case when transfer fees hit 10.000 pounds, again when transfer went above 100.000 pounds. Then again when they went above a million and 10 million etc.

    My main point though about Can was not that he would fetch a high price in the future, it was that he is a player that actually plays for us, he gets game-time and even when he is out of form he contribute to the team as the manager picks him. Selling him would only weaken the team and it would force us to buy two central midfielders instead of one to actually cope with the extra burden of a top four finish!

    For example the vast majority here wanted Lallana gone last summer, because he was out of form, now he is signing a new contract long term contract worth 120k a week and has been touted around Europe to the likes of PSG. Can is a player that can improve, he is only 23 years old. On the other hand Sturridge has been on a downward spiral for the last 3 years and is showing no signs of improving. He hardly features in the first team and when he gets his chance he blows it. The only reason to sell Can is if the club can not negotiate a new deal for him!

    #1425479

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
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    AK its not just down to Mane, its also down to Sturridge deterioting into a has been, the club was counting on him to come up with something while Mane was gone and I can´t say which player has contributed more during the last month or so.

    #1425484

    ian2105
    Participant
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    Well we agree to disagree bingo – I think Sturridge has been more often available than not over the course of the past 12-15 months (don’t forget he was fit but put through a pre-season around November 2014 before being re-introduced into the team). If he managed to be our top scorer whilst being crocked the whole time, what does that say about everyone else?! I don’t for a second believe arguments that he doesn’t contribute and yeah agree to disagree on that. You say he is injury prone is the only fact – I say that is an impossible fact for you to prove, whereas him being top scorer is the only fact in my eyes (and I can quite easily prove that)

    Whilst teams in Italy and Spain are quite stingy on their transfer fees, I think Sturridge could still be a success in those leagues with his skill and finishing ability, despite his loss of acceleration/overall speed. Those leagues aren’t so physical and I’m sure his talents would be appreciated over there (perhaps more so than England now). I think a team from one of those leagues wouldn’t be stupid if they put a £30mil offer on the table. I certainly think he is worth £20mil to a number of clubs (which was the price I suggested we discuss around in my earlier posts)

    #1425487
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
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    TV revenue has maybe doubled over the last 5 years, it would have to go up by many multiples in order to have average players values at £100m , don’t forget wages would likely go up by a similar factor.

    I don’t see the overall revenue of clubs going up 5 times over the next 5 years.

    #1425490

    liverlad
    Participant
    • :

    Agree with Bingo re Sturridge, but not with the value of Can.

    AK. Mentioned in an earlier post that with Mane back, as posters have mentioned, all will be OK as being to simplistic, but as usual, not being in “the gang ” no response.

    #1425504
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
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    What do you mean about not being in the gang? Who’s the gang? I hope I’m in it!

    As for the discussion about “Mane being back = we’re good”, it is too simplistic to just say that but at the same time that doesn’t mean that it isn’t at least partially true.

    My point is that other things are happening that will also (hopefully) have the effect of our form returning to how it was previously. Mane is an absolutely huge part of why we’re so good this season though but We’re also looking at the return of Matip, Coutinho and coming out of the busy time with only 1 game a week so we’re talking about a fresher side. Henderson is another player when he’s rested to when his heel problems start coming on.

    So it isn’t just Mane at all, we’ll be able to field our best 11 (which I’ve talked about in another thread). We’ll still let in silly goals Im sure but if we can get a better run with our preferred team I think we can start to cut some of them out. So no it isn’t so simple but I do think it’s still a hugely positive thing for us.

    but I’ve talked about this in more depth here or in another thread. I’d be interested to know if you think I’m one of the ones who has too simplistic a view on the situation.

    #1425514

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
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    I´m not expecting anyone to agree with me regarding player values, I was a laughing stock here a few season ago when I stated that players would soon start costing around 100 million.

    #1425520

    ian2105
    Participant
    • :

    Well bingo they haven’t actually hit £100mil yet, don’t forget 😉 you’re basing these “facts” from tabloid newspaper rumour. I don’t doubt we will see a £100mil transfer, but actually the world record has been at a similar level since united sold ronaldo – when was that? 2008 or something?
    Hasn’t jumped up very much in the last decade then, has it? Yeah prices will continue to increase. But the big jump in the price of an average player this year was definitely due to the intro of BT sport – so unless another big player comes in to rival sky and BT, I can’t see things jumping up again so dramatically. Mak says about wages going hand in hand with fees and he is right. There would also be signing on bonuses etc etc as well. 5 years is a short time frame. China spending got capped pretty quickly. Get yer facts straight bingo! 😉

    On the Mane issue – not ignoring AK just in the middle of a long ass debate and I don’t have to answer every post on here. Why don’t you input something liverlad, rather than just bashing us for having our own debate?! Everyone on here is new at some point. AK is welcome and I’ve seen their posts across several threads and he/she is getting responses and contributing well – welcome to “the gang” AK!! So yeah…sidetracked there…on the mane issue it’s very simplistic and he simply offers us attributes that our other plays don’t have. But more importantly our early season form was down to probably a few things:

    1. First team choices available for selection
    2. Ability of those first team choices to interchange, making marking our players almost impossible
    3. A change in tactics of our opposition – we now have 80% possession in almost every game. Possibly due to the “status” of clubs we faced early season vs currently
    4. Fixture congestion in January, which added to player availability and point 2 that I made has crippled us

    #1425522
    AK
    AK
    Participant
    • :

    Can has the potential to be very good player!
    Will he achieve his potential? Not sure!
    Is Klopp the man to get the best out of him? Yes!
    Do LFC fans have the patients to let him develop? don’t think so!
    Would i keep him? Yes!

    People are entitled to put forward their views in a respectful manner. That’s what makes this forum GREAT

    #1425525
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
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    Ian : “2. Ability of those first team choices to interchange, making marking our players almost impossible”

    This is a big one. People have noticed that Lallana is best from the midfield position now (something I think 90% of people, myself included didnt think would work well) but a lot of the reason why it works is because of the interchanging. Lallana has a good head for attacking play so he knows when to push forward from the midfield position and with our best 11 out there, the likes of Firmino and Mane know when to drop back and cover the spaces that we leave a lot better than the teams we’ve been using with players missing.

    This keeps our attacks fluid and hard to deal with and also gives us more control in midfield.

    When things were going well we praised ourselves about how fluid we were, how our goals were spread throughout the team and just how good we were at defending from the front etc etc, well these arent all down to Mane of course but if you look at our team as a machine, Mane is an important part that helps that machine function. Just as Lallana is, or a fit Henderson, or Firmino and Coutinho’s understanding of eachother and work-rate.

    It’s not all going to be rosy now that we’re essentially at full strength, Chelsea may well beat us but I’m now quite confident that we’ll perform, as I’ve said. I predicted a draw before I knew that mane was being flown out ASAP and I’m very tempted to go ahead and predict a win for us, just because some people think the sky is falling.

    #1425528

    ian2105
    Participant
    • :

    I do rate Can and think he is just in some poor form or that the evolution of Klopps tactics may have left him behind a little. I just don’t agree with the £100mil valuation and on current form would snap someone’s hand off for £40mil. I don’t know why selling Can would mean we need to buy two more midfielders as bingo suggested

    #1425536

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
    • :

    Its a matter of how you look at things, the overall cost of Pogba to United went above 100 million with agent fees. With wages his transfer cost United around 200 million pounds, so tell me again that I got my facts wrong.
    Right now a player like Ronaldo or Messi in their prime would fetch way above the 100 million in transfer cost alone, FFS Messi is supposed to cost 250 million.
    The top wages in China for a 5 year old contract are above the 100 million mark. Yeah I got my facts wrong… I can see that
    I can also point to Bale, his total transfer fee probably went above 100 million with agent fees and FYI China spending did not get capped, it was limited to 3 foreign players in every team.

    #1425549

    ian2105
    Participant
    • :

    Bingo – you got your facts wrong.

    A hypothetical transfer value means diddly squat to me mate because these players would be mental to leave their current clubs for china! They may leave at some point, at the end of their career when they have a season or two left in them.

    Your facts are bonkers and you’re just changing things again to suit yourself. We were talking of transfer fees. we aren’t discussing everything else. Keep on track bingo FFS. I’ll take this moving of goal posts as admit to defeat in the argument. Thanks mate.

    #1425553

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
    • :

    So in your opinion agent fees are not apart of the transfer fee, if Liverpool buy a player for lets say 40 million and have to dish out an extra 5 million to the agent the over all cost of the player is still only 40 million?

    #1425621

    ian2105
    Participant
    • :

    Jesus Bingo – stop trying to pull me back in with your mind games!!! Listen mate, this path you’re trying to lead me down is murky as hell and I don’t like it. Ive told you I don’t agree with you and that I accept your defeat 😛

    Generally, to my understanding, an agent gets a cut of a transfer fee – correct. But I don’t work for a football club and I imagine each individual transfer can carry its own complexities. I don’t think wages count as part of the transfer fee though, as you begin to suggest here: “the overall cost of Pogba to United went above 100 million with agent fees. With wages his transfer cost United around 200 million pounds”

    We were talking about Emre Can being sold for £80-100mil. That is the bid the club receives – not Emre Cans wages. I don’t personally care what cut an agent takes of this, or what they take on top of that – it is kind of outside what we are discussing.

    It is widely accepted that the TRANSFER FEES of Ronaldo went for roughly £80mil, Bale for £85mil and pogba for £90mil. Those are the reported TRANSFER FEES. If the reports are wrong then there isn’t much I can do about that – it is the information available to me.

    If Pogbas agent arranged to be paid separately from the TRANSFER FEE then that is another story, and of course adds to the financial impact of a transfer (as do wages etc, as could income like when Real Madrid made all their money back on beckham through shirt sale) – however, even though it adds to the financial impact of the transfer – but crucially, they aren’t the transfer fee. If the agent fee isn’t the usual percentage cut of the transfer fee, then it is a separate payment and therefore not the transfer fee.

    You seem confused. you do realise we are taking in £’s not euros?! But seriously, you’re deliberately muddying the water here in order to desperately weasel your way out of this. It’s a clever tactic, but I’ve seen it and called you out on it. Give up dude.

    The record transfer fee in the past 10 years went up by £10million. The average player transfer fee probably also rose by £10mil (for British clubs who got the BT TV money). Clubs across Europe still don’t pay this kind of money that British clubs do. You’re idea that in 5 years time a club will pay half a billion for a player could be right, I can’t read the future. But I strongly doubt it.

    #1425622

    ian2105
    Participant
    • :

    Also, with the BT SPORT inteoduction – I was aware of it coming several YEARS before it actually happened. I haven’t read or heard of any similar game changing things in the pipeline, so don’t expect a massive change (especially as china got restrictive rules brought in so quickly)

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