How Things Stand (from my perspective)

This topic contains 16 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  bofa 6 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #1504813
    Rob Fort Worth TX
    Rob Fort Worth TX
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    Bear with me here folks and apologies in advance for the long missive and regurgitated (and often rambling) material.

    Just adding to my recent response to mwake; I’m trying to understand what we are wanting to achieve this summer.

    Our recent failings have been down to shipping too many goals and I believe this is Klopp’s priority.

    If that’s the case then a top centre back has to come in. Our full backs positions are good, defensively, Matip is gaining more confidence each and every game but needs a strong leader next to him. VVD, seemingly fits the bill there (and believe we will get him before the month is out). Lovren, who I like, has great games but is just too rash for me back there. A top centre back reads the game not reacts to the game and Dejan too often does the latter.

    Our mid is, well, OK, but too often not dynamic enough. I like Wij (but he’s not a 6), I like Henderson (but he’s too predictable for me and is he a 6?) and I like Can (improved, but after last season it’s evident he is a number 8 all day long – the connector between 6 and 10). All four players, excellent players, but where is the ‘consistent spark’ in those four? I don’t know. I feel the switch is either on or it’s off with all four. Each of those will contribute on both sides of the ball but I feel we lack that consistent dynamism especially in those scrappy games we see often throughout the season. Do you know what I mean?

    Our attacking unit will always create. We seem to create more scoring opportunities then any team. We score goals too which is always a bonus, but, hear me out here, it seems that if Coutinho isn’t on fire (which we see quite often over the course of 9 months which is natural) then Firmino isn’t and then we have had to rely on Mane’s pace, an occasional Lallana strike or a Milner penalty. Adding Salah will help. We haven’t had a player in the top ten Premier League scorers since the SAS days four years ago. In fact, since 1992 when the PL began we’ve only had eight of our players in that elite list (Fowler, Owen, Collymore, Kuyt, Torres, Gerrard, Suarez and Sturridge). United, Chelsea, City and Arsenal consistently had top nines in that list and mids contributing 15 goals a season too.

    So what will Klopp do?

    Robertson close to signing so that’s the left back area dealt with.

    That dynamic midfielder, well, from financial bods within the Leipzig organisation, it ‘seems’ that the current vibe is that it would be daft not to accept Liverpool’s latest bid for Keita (rumoured to be around the 65 mill mark). I’m expecting traction this coming week in Operation Keita. I also don’t think the Ox deal is dead either. All depends on whether Arsenal want to sell to us I think. He will give us extra options on the right or in the middle if that happens.

    Klopp won’t want a full season relying on Matip (who has had frequent injury issues let’s not forget) partnered with Lovren (who misses games too) and then down the line with Klavan and Gomez). We will expect to see missed games by Lovren and Matip so Van Dijk has to come in or if that stalls then another centre back. We will see a new centre back.

    I the ideal greedy world we’d all like to see Keita, VVD and someone like Aubameyeng come in but that won’t happen. So who would you perm two from three there? The first two for me but I will wince if Chelsea get the latter as all our neighbours (bar Spurs) have gone out and bought a top scorer. Would you say we are OK in midfield and focus on Auba and VVD? I don’t know but I would like to see a centre back and top mid ahead of a top 9….ouch, I hated typing that! I just feel that Klopp may be OK with seeing what Salah, Mane, Firmino, Sturridge, Coutinho and Lallana can do for us up top, all super players, but saying that we still seem to waste an awful lot of chances that a top, top number 9 will put away as we’ve seen at Anfield over the year (Hunt, Keegan, Rush, Fowler, Owen, Torres).

    We need a strong spine to compete; we haven’t had one for a while, since Rafa’s days (Reina, when he wasn’t beat at his near post nearly every game, Hyypia/Carra, Mash, Gerrard and Torres – that’s a spine!). The thing that cost us back then was Rafa’s inflexibility and stubbornness that the 4231 will get you the win in the end…and it didn’t in the daft draws that allowed United to win the title…again.

    Klopp wants workers and mixer-uppers; in a fluid, interchanging, high octane no real designated formation (tough to coach – I’ve tried it!), a formation that works hard together, overloads everywhere, a formation that is tough to tactically prepare for because of that ambiguity. He wants (I believe) to bring in players to be part of that methodology; hard core German engineering with rarely failing parts.

    Every day, several times a day, I am checking on my PC, laptop, tablet, phone to see if the players above (or others) are anywhere near signing for us hoping to eventually see a long term Liverpool backbone start to take shape; one that we can build around and bring us much needed success because two league titles in 30 years and one League Cup in the last 11 wears on me.

    #1504864
    mwake
    mwake
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    • :

    That was a good read Rob! Interesting opinions and great analysis of what we need. I agree with everything you’ve said.

    I would like to expand (again) on the balance issues. Look at Tottenham, one of the most balanced teams in the world, a mix of youth and experience. We are way behind that type of setup. It’s going to take probably two more years to get to Tottenham Hotspur levels. Look at the meltdown from pool fans this summer regarding signing players and then you look at Tottenham, they haven’t bought anyone and now selling a second choice fullback for 50 million. We are a long way from that situation. VVD or similar (Ajaxs Davidson Sanchez?) is a must. Naby Keita or Aubameyang is a must. If I had to pick one I’d pick Keita. Why? Because any team that plays Lucas at center back obviously has issues… I’m not convinced by Gomez at CB, I think he’ll be repositioned into a left back. Lovren is just Skrtel with hair lol. Matip is good, I see him as a Stephon Henchoz but he needs his Hyppia (VVD) next to him.

    I agree with you about that midfield. It’s ok. Naby will inject much needed quality but let’s be honest appart from Emre Can/Coutinho how many of us would cry if we woke up to read that one of the midfielders had been sold. That’s not to be dismissive of the likes of Winaldjum, Lallana and Henderson but they are support acts. Good players but not key players.

    To be frank how many of our players would get into the Spurs team? None of our defence or goal keeper. Ali and Kane take up another two positions so by my count that is 7 Spurs players already… Money needs to be spent by FSG on the next two years, they need to suspend the soccer version of money ball tactics until we have a team that is balanced like Tottenham.

    Klopp was smart (and lucky) last year in that he concentrated on the attack and we snatched 4th on the last day. This summer he definitely needs to address the defence.

    I can see why Klopp wants Naby too, Naby will help us to be less porous, Naby will help to screen the defence much better than what we have. As you said Rob, Henderson and Can aren’t really playing to their true strengths. However to be fair to Klopp he had come into the club and a lot of players are having to learn new skills, he’s taking the ego out of certain players and asking them to expand their skill sets. Henderson was an attacking midfielder and now he is the screen. As had been mentioned Klopp is a real coach, most of the joys you get from having Klopp as a manager is watching players develop. But I think Klopp himself also has to develop and realise that in the Premier league you also sometimes have to spend too accumulate.

    #1504870
    Bob-Notts
    Bob-Notts
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    • :

    Mwake I get your point but I don’t think we are that far behind spurs.

    Their keeper is better than ours, Clyne has not had the best season but I think that’s a blip and think he is as good on his day as there right back. I’d take Matip and one of there centre backs and their left back.

    If we played say a 433, I’m not saying this is the best formation or what I’d play – just giving an example …
    I’d then have Ali, Couthino and say Dembelle or Wanyama (but again if Can keeps progressing or Wiji does there is an argument for one of those in). I don’t personally get all the hype about Dier. Good player but not better than what I’ve said up there.

    Then I’d have Salah and Mane either side of Kane BUT that’s only because Sturridge is permanently injured. There was a point for Ericsson but I’ve taken pace and equal return of our 2 wider players.

    They do have strength in depth thou and get your point. If we got our main targets then we would have that too.

    #1504871
    Bob-Notts
    Bob-Notts
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    • :

    Rob been done to death but I would personally get another striker in snd sacrifice Origi.

    #1504874
    macattack
    macattack
    Participant
    • :

    I agree that we had problems defensively. We have a problem with set pieces, but that is actually not as big as I would have thought. We conceded 14 which is more than our direct competitors, but only a fre m more ers a full season. Where we are really bad is conceding goals from open play. About 15 more than our top 4 competitors. Actually only exception was spurs who was worse than us. I think better personel Will get us some way, but the tactics/defensive organization will get us further. Teams like Stoke, Wba and Southampton concedes less.

    I think the biggest problem for us last season was breaking up teams parking the bus. Henne, I would invest more in that departement if I had to chose. When fit, Sturridge is good enough, but we don’t have another one like him. I would go all in for Keita and a striker. Maybe Auba. Maybe dembele. If we don’t have enough money left, I would go for a cheaper central defender. Eg Lindelof and Rudiger were both 50% of vvd. In a perfect world we would get them all, but if we had to chose…

    #1504878
    macattack
    macattack
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    • :

    Great post by the way!!

    #1504968
    mwake
    mwake
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    • :

    Bob-Notts – good to hear your thoughts on Liverpool/Tottenham XI! Respectfully though bud not sure Clyne is better than Rose. Rose played a good part in a defence that was one of the best in Europe (World?) last year, not sure that we can say that about Clyne… Also Rose supports the Spurs attack brilliantly, chips in with goals and still helps to keep the defence tight; whilst most of us know full well Clyne is out of his comfort zone when he is in the opposition’s half.
    Not also sure I would accept Matip over Vertonghen or Aberweireld either. Those two have been pretty consistent and effective partnership for a while now. But I agree Matip is very good and im sure VVD will make him even better.
    As for Sturridge over Kane, thats a no go for me, although I know what you mean about Sturridge though. If he never had all those injuries and still had his 2013 pace then Sturridge is the man hands down, but since that loss of pace I have to remind my self that he is still only 27 years old. Sturridge managed 20+ goals once in his career, whilst Kane has done it three times in recent years. Also Kane is more complete, Kane is aggressive from headers, scores tap ins and screamers; despite that admitedly maybe Kane doesn’t have Sturridges exuberance and panache but in the modern age Kane is machine that I would prefer if thruth be told. In an old fashioned 4-4-2 team I actaully think you would have BOTH players with their skill sets complimentary to each other.
    Overall Bob I do agree with you, I think we could cut the gap on Spurs with VVD and Keita.

    I still blame Hicks and Gillett for us playing catch up but FSG are trying it seems. FSG have made some mistakes but they seem intent on doing the right thing. We have that guy who was CEO of Electronic Arts so hopefully the club should be run better in the next few years. But this season is important, to play of from one of Rafa Benitez comments we need a table and NOT the lampshade.

    Macattack – good call on Celtic’s Dembele I forgot about him, we should definitely go for him. He would be a cheaper alternative to Aubayemang. I sometimes think Klopp thinks he can turn Origi into Aubayemang but whilst Origi has the physicality he doesn’t have the built in instinct or finishing. I do hope Origi succeededs but it’s hard to see how his development will go further…

    #1504985
    Bob-Notts
    Bob-Notts
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    • :

    Hey Mwake, Rose I agree on, he’s a great full back but he’s a left back, that’s why I had Clyne in – your prob on about Trippier (who I think Clyne on his day and in a settled good defence is as good as).

    Onto to Studge can see where your coming from and I suppose it’s a mute point as one will play loads and the other won’t as he can’t stay fit. Appreciate your view but if both were fit and robust I’d take Studge as he has that bit of extra quality but yeh loads would say the other way and that’s fine.

    As I mentuioned the gap will close significantly and should we get another striker at some point then I think we have a stronger team offensively.

    Cheers

    #1505008
    mwake
    mwake
    Participant
    • :

    Bob-Notts, Lol yes I did compare right back Clyne with Danny Rose, thanks for catching that!!! Haha I guess my morning coffee hadn’t sunk in (that’s my excuse lol). Clyne is very good if he could get a little more one on one-time in training and work with the attacking coaches to build confidence in his attacking play he would be one of the best right backs in the world. Defensively Clyne is solid, he rarely gets embarrassed and is tenacious and dogged in his pressing and tackling. Unfortunately just needs to up his attacking game. Its really weird because when I heard we were buying Clyne the one memory I had from him at Southampton was the amazing goal he scored against us….

    As for Tottenham they have an embarrassment of riches, and it not as if Kyle Walker going to Mancity is a shock, Kieran Trippier was playing ahead of Walker for a sustained period of time even before the end of last season. Walker couldn’t get in… I wonder if we could do the same and flog Moreneo to Man City for 50 million too, then they would have a complete set of second choice right/left back for 100 million lol

    #1505020
    Bob-Notts
    Bob-Notts
    Participant
    • :

    Did you say 50 million or 5 Mwake ?

    #1505030

    scouseman
    Participant
    • :

    I like what I hear. But for me, the keeper and CBs including matip are not good enough. I would be more than happy to buy keita then focus on a keeper and defence. Thats where we will improve the squad.

    I dread to think the season starts and Lovren and Mignolet make more mistakes. Rather than even take the risk like we seem to have done for 3 seasons, fix it. Dont do the same thing over and over again and expect different results.

    #1505040
    shanksy
    shanksy
    Spectator
    • :

    Matip not good enough???? Sorry, totally disagree I rate him as top class. Clynne is also good enough we just need another CB and LB to replace Lovren and Milner as first choice. If we can also land Keita then we will have done good business. I still firmly believe we need a prolific striker because we don’t have one.

    #1505058
    macattack
    macattack
    Participant
    • :

    I’m with you that a Cb and gk upgrade would be great, but fact is that teams with worse players defend better. I’d still say defensive organization is priority. Then actually gk over (60£) Cb. Hopefully Karius does a de gea and becomes world class after a shaky start, but if not we need someone reliable for the next 5-7 seasons. Look at de gea, courtois, cech before him, lloris. So to conclude: find our star gk (wont happen this window if it’s not Karius already), get a 30£ Cb, Robertson at lb, improve det organization, keita (Haven’t seen him play a lot, but trust everyones praise) and a striker (like dembele).

    #1505059
    Rob Fort Worth TX
    Rob Fort Worth TX
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    • :

    I forgot to add Grujic to my post. I’ve high hopes for this fella.

    #1505202
    nocturnal_red
    nocturnal_red
    Participant
    • :

    Rob completely agree on your assessment of our team and what we need, I saw a CB,cm,lb and a pacy goalscorer as what we needed after last season… If we don’t get Keita I would be content with just adding a young CB and LB with potential… unless someone of proven top quality becomes available

    #1505329
    mwake
    mwake
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    • :

    Nocturnal_Red – I’m kinda fascinated by the Keita and VVD saga. Regardless, if we can’t get both then we need one of them. Not getting either of them would be somewhat disastrous IMHO.

    It’s good that we signed Salah but our problems last year weren’t because of our attack it was because of center midfield and defense. Henderson and Matip going off injured affected the team just as much as we were by Mane and Coutinho getting injured. Even with Henderson and Matip, we had some ropey times last year. VVD and Keita would go a long way to not only plugging the gap but contributing towards a solid spine that we haven’t had since Rafas 2009 team?

    I would be happy with:

    Robertson = LB
    VVD = CB
    Keita = CM
    Salah = AM/R

    #1505415

    bofa
    Participant
    • :

    I think we’d all be delighted with those additions mwake! It would fill the positions we most need. However, I still think we’d be light on players if we try and win all competitons. Hopefull a couple of the young player will start getting some pitch time. One thing for certain is that we’ll get injuries so we’ll need reinforcements from somewhere.

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