I think posters on here want some players to fail.

This topic contains 46 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by Pagan Pagan 6 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #1562564

    liverlad
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    • :

    I understand where posters are coming from regarding the failings of Migs & Moreno as they have been very poor in the past.
    At present Migs & Moreno have been playing well, both have had one awful game recently but posters are still waiting for them to fail so they can be proved correct, every time our results don’t come up to expectations Migs & Moreno are always seem to be made scapegoats, some even blame Migs for the fluke goal on Saturday.
    Moreno has made less mistakes than all the other defenders this season & has been our best defender, why don’t we all admit that at the moment they are doing well & hope that they continue in this vain.
    Hope I haven’t put the mockers on them.

    #1562612
    mwake
    mwake
    Participant
    • :

    Hey mate I put my hand up for suggesting the difference between Mignolet and top class keeper mjght have been that that goal might not have happened. On deeper reflection and reading other posters comments it’s clear that it was the faukt if other defenders and players too for that goal. I feel what your saying about Mignolet and Moreno and I did praise Moreno highly even though I thought he was targetted a lot. Infact you could argue Moreno was contender for one of the men of match such was his perfomance. The way he recovered after Sevilla was admiral. Migs also has been fairly solid too this season.

    #1562624

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    I think you could be right Liverlad.
    It seems at times that people woulda rather be right than change their opinion on someone/something.

    Moreno had a mare in the second half midweek there but he’s been our best defender this season, playing his best football with us and has completely turned around his fortunes.
    I wanted him sold in the summer but I can recognise he’s playing some good football. This doesn’t mean I’m totally convinced by him either.
    Long may it continue and the less of the brain farts the better.

    #1562674

    Sean the sailor
    Participant
    • :

    I thought Moreno was excellent on sat. I want the two of these to prove me wrong big time. I don’t blame migs for sat. That’s just our bad luck which seems to be constant.

    #1562763

    liverlad
    Participant
    • :

    Good to here from you all,I am not saying that any of you in particular have a go at these two, but there are plenty out there that do.
    I don’t care what they have done in the past it is what they are doing now that counts, of course one can not guarantee that there form will continue I just hope it does.
    Remember I said many times earlier in the season ” Watch when Migs makes a mistake the vultures will be waiting” & they still are.

    #1562768

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
    • :

    Its very seldom that I have a go at players, I can criticize them but very rarely do I advocate that they should be sold. Its only when it becomes clear that said player can´t hack it physically anymore.
    The one player in recent history that does not fall into that statement is Moreno but I am enjoying his renaissance and even though Migs has not totally convinced me, he is a decent keeper. Albeit not a top keeper and I doubt he will ever become one but I might be proven wrong about that if he could finally get a decent defense in front of him.
    I´ll still say the same thing about Sturridge though, the same thing I´ve been stating for the past couple of years, he needs a change of scenery, all those injuries have taken their toll and he is not good enough for a team anymore. He is not even average enough for a top team anymore.
    I´m afraid that our captain has suffered the same fate as Daniel, we should still give him some time as he might overcome his fitness issues but the clock is ticking.
    It has always hurt us in the past waiting too long for injury prone players to come good as far as I remember. In the recent past the top names that spring to mind are Redknapp, Berger, Kewell, Cole, Sturridge and now Henderson.

    #1562769

    liverlad
    Participant
    • :

    NB
    Can’t disagree with anything you have said.

    #1562774
    Sanj1
    Sanj1
    Participant
    • :

    I don’t think Migs was at fault for the Chelsea result, neither do I think vultures wait for him to make mistakes. It’s the nature of this forum to pile in on players if they make mistakes. Lovren, Matip, Milner, Moreno can all say they’ve had as much as Migs after a bad game. Certainly Klopp got more stick than Migs after this game. My thoughts are Migs had a solid game. Any keeper would have been beaten by the Willian cross, but if I thought Migs could have done better I would say so.

    #1562779

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
    • :

    There are a few here that wait for players to fuck up, there is no hiding from that, its often like the majority here would rather slate the lads than praise them.
    So far this season I´ve seen two appreciation threads. Both for Salah but I could not give a fair guess at how many threads have been posted to slate the lads.

    The funny thing about that is that we who appreciate the game and look for the positives do not have the need to discuss things over and over again. If a player is doing good we just appreciate it but the haters somehow think that things will change depending on how much they bitch and moan about things.

    When in fact no matter how you put it, when you sell a player out of the team, no matter what form said player is. You will always weaken the team…

    #1562784
    Bob-Notts
    Bob-Notts
    Participant
    • :

    Everyone does it with different players, this is not something new and people will commend players they like and criticise players they feel aren’t good enough. I think Migs in particular gets s very hard time on here. I have said it before and will say it again, whilst he isn’t in the top 3 or 4 keepers in the epl he is in the second tier of quality keepers and I often wonder how much more consistent he would be with a stronger defence in front of him. Moreno does as well and whilst I think he’s generally played well this season I must admit I see some issues with his game, which I am not sure he can overcome on a regular basis in the hustle and bustle of the epl. But happy to be proved wrong come end of season.

    But let’s be honest some high profile players get it big time on here as well. Sturridge has had it on a regular basis and people will defend others first. I’m not bothered if people think he’s finished, that’s an opinion that people are entitled too but I’m talking about the character asssasination he gets. Now for the record I’ve said come end of season Sturridge should go, if I was him I would have gone last season. Now he isn’t ever going to be that player that he was when he an Suárez ripped teams to shreds for fun (although he doesn’t often get the credit and some will cite Suárez contribution and down play the impact Sturridge had). However I also think he has something to offer and I would go to a mid table team to get his confidence and mojo back (somewhere he would play more regular and not have stop start intros). He’s clearly never going to get over his injury record but he’s generally been ready this season to play when called upon.

    Other players for me should think about similar moves for their own careers eg the likes of Lovren.

    So unfortunately whilst it isn’t right, we all do it.

    #1562834

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
    • :

    Sturridge had a big impact that season, he managed to get the goals that we needed when Suarez was missing and visa versa. I still maintain that it was Luis who got the best out of him, no other player has riled Daniel up as much. Suarez would always have a go at him if he squandered a change and I always got the feeling that Sturridge was never happy about Luis being the main man. He had something to prove back then, after he got the big contract that element of his game disappeared, IMHO it wasn´t just the injuries that took him back. He has been in a cocoon since back then, in a comfort zone as the best striker at the club or the most natural one. He still got that reputation.

    #1562839

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    I too feel people are to ready to have a go, and are very reluctant to change their opinion on a player, but I suppose that is human nature, I have a mate that was still having a go at Lucas every game even after he got LFC player of the season 2 seasons in a row, he just could not change his early opinion of him. For me we are sometimes to quick to judge young players, these players have the time to improve and will have more chance if they are being supported. Look at Bale, it was about 18 months before we was on a winning Spurs side, at one point it looked like he might be heading back to Southampton, a couple of years on he is going to Madrid for a world record fee.

    #1562851
    Sanj1
    Sanj1
    Participant
    • :

    Seems to me that’s half the side who get a regular mauling for the short comings of our side. Perhaps it’s the supporters who need to change to get the best out of the side. How about an amnesty for the rest of the season. No criticism lose or draw for the rest of the season. Instead search for positives in each performance & see whether that transmits in some way to the feeling around the club & helps in some way. Lets try it ?

    #1562857

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Sanj – I’ve tried that, just get accused of accepting mediocrity.

    #1562871
    AK
    AK
    Participant
    • :

    I dont agree with everything in this article but well worth a read

    The Unfair Alberto Moreno Witch-Hunt Returns

    #1562928

    Mikus
    Participant
    • :

    AK, the brief interview with Graham Hunter at the end was interesting. I think the point about Moreno was that he was probably bought more for his attacking credentials than his defensive ones. I remember Carra and Neville having a debate about full backs on MNF with Carra saying that a full back is now judged as much on their attacking credentials as their defensive ones. What has exacerbated things for Moreno then is that there are few insurance policy players around him who can bail him out if he gets into trouble, particularly in midfield – which is, in my opinion, a bigger problem area for us under Klopp than the defence because I think the two are inextricably linked, particularly regarding the attacking way we play the game. So put simply, Moreno is perhaps more exposed than he was before and is therefore being unfairly assessed on attributes that he wasn’t bought for. But fans will inevitably still get frustrated over such things whether it is Moreno’s fault or not – he probably does act as the easy target to blame everything on – in some ways he’s the symptom not the cause.

    #1562938

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Mikus – That hasn’t been the case this season and the reason Robertson hasn’t got much playing time is because Moreno has upped his game significantly he has been much more disciplined defensively but still added to the team in an attacking sense.

    #1562953

    captkirk
    Participant
    • :

    I think Moreno will make mistakes again, more likely than not two mistakes that cost us points in the same match soon. It’s as if he has a counter that just resets after his howlers and it’s just a question of time before he has some mad moments on the pitch. As for his improvement, granted that he seems to be everywhere, making interceptions on the right of the pitch, eye catching performances, but I would prefer that he goes on quietly with his job efficiently on the left. Did not want to bring that up but an intelligent player would not have backed off when Willian was looking for an angle to cross or dribble because Klavan was shadowing him on his inside. Maybe Moreno was trying not to commit himself and let Willian go past him but in that instance it was the wrong choice. I don’t have any particular grudge towards Moreno but can we rely on him to be our first choice left back for the next seven years and expect to challenge for titles?

    #1562954
    Red Herring
    Red Herring
    Participant
    • :

    ….and sometimes you don’t always appreciate what attributes a player may have until you start making direct comparisons with others. For example, I’m fairly sure that Moreno got his LB place back this season because of Milner’s relative lack of recovery pace which would have been bothering Klopp and the way he needs to get the fullbacks pushed so far up the field when we’re in possession. Remember Son’s goal when we played Spurs at Wembley recently.

    Son must have taken approx. 6m out of Milner over approx 32m (from half-way to penalty box) – which was so worrying to watch (unfortunately I was there!) and if that had been Moreno…..for all his other faults, at least he would have been alongside/goalside by the time that Son would have been shooting and a goal wouldn’t have automatically ensued.

    #1562961
    Razor
    Razor
    Participant
    • :

    There’s a big difference between wanting a player to fail and calling out a player for failing. The mistakes that have been made constantly are not expected of ANY professional playing at the very top level. Try making these mistakes with any other top manager and these players would have been out on their arse long ago. Imagine a player making these mistakes at Barca or Real; they’d get chewed out by the fans and the media simply because it’s not good enough for the team, not because they want the player to fail. Persisting with the same players who make the same mistakes not just once but several times is an acceptance of mediocrity. The fact that no one is queing up to take these players is a clear indication that they’re not good enough for us. If a club has paid a significant transfer fee and you’re being paid 50-100k/wk you’re expected to have a certain level of competence which certain players have shown time and again that they do not. At every level of the club from top to bottom, everyone wants to see LFC back at the very top. I for one am sick of seeing the team fail because of the same few players. I don’t want a player to fail because I don’t want the team to fail but if they’re failing then they should be shown the door because it’s not f*cking good enough.

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