Indyref 2 – Which way will it go?

This topic contains 220 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by knotter knotter 7 years ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 181 through 200 (of 221 total)
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  • #1455073
    liquidator
    liquidator
    Participant
    • :

    Paxman – I’m pretty happy with facts, and am happy to challenge you to find anything I have posted which could be called fake news or alternative facts. However, I like my facts and my direct quotes fully rounded, shown in the full context they were expressed, rather than being chosen at random or at best highly selectively, to try and prove whatever point the presenter is trying to make, and you do that incessantly. Actually to the point they become pretty much alternative facts as I feel I cannot trust a damn thing you post, and therefore generally dismiss most of it out of hand – your £1.5 trillion worth of oil reserves being a good case in point. I guess in isolation it may be true, but in the context of how it will help Scotland (or the UK) in the future given the more rounded information banjo bought to the discussion, is highly debatable. You accuse me of being a little Trump, which you clearly enjoyed doing. I hate the bloke, the only merit he has as far as I am concerned is winding up the liberal lefties. Actually in style (if not content), you are much closer to him, except your chosen vehicle for poorly thought through nonsense is this forum, rather than twitter.

    #1455076

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    999 – I am in no way pro independence for Scotland I am firmly against it, I just don’t let my wishes or opinions cloud the facts when debating a topic. From other threads you should know that I think a Union is stronger together. I do however find it quite interesting that it is mostly the pro leave lobby from Bexit that are anti independence for Scotland.

    Yes I am still pissed off about Brexit and how the campaigns were handled by both sides, not so much the way people voted but just all the lies, the British people voted on an issue that the had no information on what it would mean for them. Even the leave campaigns head man in Boris was not fully committed to leaving, 12 hours before the campaign begun he didn’t know what side he would be on, he made up his mind on what would be good for HIM and HIS career, not what would be best for this country. All these take back control messages were bollox too, and the will of the people, what have we got now? An unelected PM, a public school oaf for foreign secretary, what control do we have? Zero

    #1455080

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Liquidator – It is completely normal to post the facts that support your case, and the person opposing your point post facts that support their point, that is what a debate is. Imagine a solicitor that didn’t present the facts that supported his client, would be very good would he. As far a Scottish oil goes, things can’t be that bad as Shell and BP still have their bases there.

    #1455093
    knotter
    knotter
    Participant
    • :

    I might add that I live in Scotland, so I will get the Euro even though I voted to leave Europe.
    My eldest daughter crosses the border between Scotland and England every day to work in the English NHS, so do many other people, at the moment there are as many Scottish notes being exchanged as English ones in the streets of Carlisle and environs, imagine what it will be like with Euro’s on one side and pounds on the other.
    I abstained in the referendum for Independence as I consider that English people should not vote on Scottish matters, my children who could vote were strongly in favour of independence, they are not so now.
    There is a case to be made for Scottish Independence but now is the very worst time to make it. In any case, the generous terms that England has made towards Scotland and the need for Scotland to be in solidarity with the rest of these Islands far outweighs any considerations of Independence in my view.

    #1455095
    banjo_chuckers
    banjo_chuckers
    Participant
    • :

    Just for the record, wasn’t trying to imply the Scottish Oil industry was about to go belly up, my stance on the information I have, is simply it’s nowhere near as rosy as certain opinions seem to think it is. It isn’t the cash cow that’s going to pay for independence, it’s not going to turn Scotland in another Norway or Alberta…

    As for Shell/BP, I think we all know they do what’s best for Shell/BP, not for Scotland… and any large level of further investment is likely to go overseas….

    #1455097

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Knotter – The logistics of how it work, would I imagine follow the same way in which Northern Island and the Republic work, many of these people cross borders on a daily basis for work, and to do shopping etc, they make it work so it shouldn’t be a problem.

    #1455099

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    Paxman, if Scotland are not an economic basket case how come their public expenditure is greater than any other EU country including Greece.

    Also two thirds of Scotland’s exports excluding oil go to the UK and there’s no chance of that continuing should Scotland become independent.

    #1455102
    Jay belfast
    Jay belfast
    Participant
    • :

    Paxman the border between NI and the republic is non existent currently because we are all EU but there is a massive row (and huge problem) here and in the republic about how this border will be operated when Brexit occurs. No one wants a return to a hard border but there doesn’t appear to be any way round it. The border will be a huge issue for Scotland also.

    #1455109
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    thats OK Jay, Paxo has Scottish heritage so can get a Scottish (EU) Passport so once again the big issues wont actually affect him, he is currently fighting for the little guy who is not as considerably well off as himself, its these selfless acts that make him a true hero.

    We salute you Sir

    #1455114

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    🙂 🙂 🙂

    #1455122
    Jay belfast
    Jay belfast
    Participant
    • :

    Even with his Scottish passport he’ll still get stopped by customs at the border should Scotland become independent. Many people in Northern Ireland have both UK and Irish passports and a hard border will cause everyone problems……it’s one of the, if not the biggest, Brexit issue facing this part of the UK.

    #1455127
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    yeh i know mate my family were in Mullingear for a while and used to cross border for flights and cheap things trips etc, that wont last…..

    #1455161

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Jay – Why has this issue caused a problem there when the UK government has already stated that the Republic will continue to have freedom of movement throughout the UK after Brexit?

    #1455164

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    999 – If Scotland were in the EU they would have the 12th strongest economy, that is why I don’t think they can be called a basket case economy when there would be 16 weaker ones in the union.

    #1455179

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    The Institute for Fiscal Studies confirm that Scotland’s defecit is three times greater than the UK’s and is forecast to grow further.

    #1455181
    Jay belfast
    Jay belfast
    Participant
    • :

    none of that has been confirmed though pax it is still being worked out with no easy solution. uk and irish governmemts want freedom of movement but how do you police it without a hard border?

    eu goods and people could flow into northern ireland completely unobstructed. I imagine then it wouldnt be too difficult to get them to mainland uk.

    Google “hard border northern ireland” and you will find hundreds of articles and opinions on it.

    #1455189
    Alfie07
    Alfie07
    Participant
    • :

    Scotland’s deficit, as a percentage of GDP, is larger than Greece’s.

    #1455200

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    The EU target for a budget defecit on GDP is 3% Scotland currently have a 9.5% budget defecit on GDP higher than any country in the EU including as Alfie has rightly pointed out Greece.

    It is quite possible that EU may not even let Scotland join the EU until it gets much closer to that 3% figure.

    #1455210
    Alfie07
    Alfie07
    Participant
    • :

    Let’s not forget that SNP economist Andrew Wilson has recently admitted that the SNP lied over oil revenue claims in the first referendum. He now admits oil revenues were the basis of their economy and not a bonus as Alex Salmknd claimed.

    The oil revenues have now, clearly, fallen drastically to the inflated claims of the SNP. So not only are the revenues far reduced they were required to balance the books at the higher level.

    He also acknowledges that Scotland requires free access to the EU and UK markets after independence when constitutional experts have warned it would have to choose between them.

    God only knows how they will spin that.

    #1455230

    bloggy
    Spectator
    • :

    Fuck me, I know that wanker Paxo had been responsible for some shit, no account, nonsense threads, since the Brexit vote, but honestly guys…200 posts on a thread so transparently obviously just another, in a long line, of desperate “boo hoo hoo” please say it isn’t so Brexit threads, is really too much!

    Funny thing is he can see nothing wrong in the Scots voting for what they want, whilst at the same time, endlessly whining on about the injustice of a democratically arrived at decision to fuck Europe off out of it, by the rest of the UK.

    Those of us who voted to leave that shower of shite known as the EU have no problem whatsoever with the Scots calling for an independence vote. It is absolutely their right to trigger independence should they decide it’s in their best interest, and we should applaud them for their bravery in so doing.

    It speaks volumes for the character of the people of a country that they would prefer to go it alone and face uncertainty, than to live under the perceived subjugation of a so called superior nation.

    I hope the Scots suck it up and vote for independence…and if not…let’s have an independence vote for England…and get rid of them that way…

    Bloggs.

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