It's not Louis its the player's

This topic contains 23 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  Disleksickerik 8 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #760691

    rs83
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    Sack LVG bring in pep or promote the class of 92 don’t matter what you do the players are shite. Until you get rid of saf boys you aint going no where. I actually can’t wait for giggs to step up then we’ll see what he does with this dross. The Same people wetting themselves with giggs will then say bring in Gary Neville. In order to get things sorted any manager has to:

    Get rid of Rooney fellani young smalling (overrated) jones Carrick Valencia and definitely get rid of saf boys in the background who are all snakes. Until this is done all we can expect is a top 4 finish at best for the next few years doesn’t matter if you have pep and mourinho in charge.

    #760742

    Stuntman_Matt
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    So the best thing to do then would be to get rid of all of our most successful players/staff in order to have more success…? Put that way, it sounds like the worst possible thing we could do. The kind of people SAF used to like around him are exactly the kind of people we are lacking.

    #760769
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
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    agree with you that all SAF players (cept DDG) need to go and said that when he retired. But you seem to be blaming only SAF players. Lets be fair though. Young Jones Valencia are fringe players so have reduced damage on the team. The problem is not just SAF player but none of LVG signing has proved to be a star. We are back to square one like we were with Cleverly, Welbeck talking about prospects and promise but not proven.

    @stuntman_matt – Are you going to defend Rooney Carrick on the sole basis they were part of a successful team years ago. Time stops for no man. If you want to go on the basis of “most successful players” why not put Giggs back on the wing and hey lets get Sir Bobby to boss the midfield. And as for Smalling Valencia Young Jones are you suggesting we won titles because of their contrinution. They were passengers not drivers on our road to success.

    #760847

    Stuntman_Matt
    Participant
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    @Mac
    Not on the sole basis that they were successful years ago but I think that it plays a part in continuing success. I think that they still have something to offer but the surroundings have become a bit stale. If we had a scenario like the one at Liverpool with Klopp then I think we would see more from them again. I see the value in keeping a “link” at the club but I put a big emphasis on tradition. Perhaps too much but that is just what I like to see. They are not neccessarily the players that got us there, but those players have long since gone and so all we have left are the Valencia’s etc. I guess its a bit of a balancing act. Either cut the strings from SAF era completely and start again, or keep people around that know how to replicate that success and stick with them. Both have their pro’s and con’s. Maybe I just need to move on because as you put it “time stops for no man”.

    #761162
    simonas2702
    simonas2702
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    The players for me arent that much worse than what other better performing teams have. The tactics we cannot deny have been horrible for a long time and lack of confidence and unhapiness grows which we are seeing now. Change the manager and we will see a change for sure

    #761381
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
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    @stuntman_matt – Seems more like sentementality than reason from you. The SAF era ended with Rio Evra Vidic Giggs going. Carrick and Rooney really should have gone as well. (DDG excepted) all the rest were mediocre or misfits. There is no advantage to keeping players who are simply not good enough. It is not continuity because the quality is not being continued. It is not tradition if the quality is not there.

    You talk of something to offer and could be better with another manager but miss the core question. Are they good enough. Is Rooney good enough to be our lone strinker. Is Carrick good enough to hold the midfield. Is Smalling good enough to be our defensive rock. The answer is always an IF. Could be IF .. blah blah. We need player for whom there is no doubt, no ifs. Players who can be relied on to deliver now.

    @simonas2702 – He’s talking about SAF players. Are you saying they are not worse than counterparts at rival teams?

    #761435

    rs83
    Participant
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    See if we had a decent striker instead of that plank Rooney we would have won today. But anyway it’s still LVG fault Rooney can’t score to save his life. So let’s sack LVG bring in giggs who has no experience. That makes perfect sense this is Manchester united

    #761534

    united80
    Participant
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    lvg has taken rooneys desire and attacking flair away from him, the same as he has martial and Memphis, it is lvgs fault. he has the midfield believing that backwards and sidewards I sthe best policy so when the ball comes forward strikers aren’t ready and lvg has drilled it into them that if they miss, they are on the bench.

    #761558

    Stuntman_Matt
    Participant
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    @Mac You may be right about the sentimentality thing. However these arn’t players that I would build a team around if that is what you thought I meant. These are players I would hang on to for their ability in the dressing room/training ground and experience on the pitch and in big games. I do think that Rooney and Carrick are good enough still if played to their strengths. Its a bit of a cliche I know but I would rather get the best we can out of players that we already have, than go out and buy a whole new team that have no knowledge of the club or its standards. I agree about needing players that can be relied on to deliver now. That probably isnt going to be the likes of Rooney or Carrick but they could work together with those reliable new players to give us a strong base point to build from. I have a similar opinion to united80 about LVG stripping players of confidence and flair being the route cause for players being off form.

    #761630

    Blacky
    Participant
    • :

    @Stuntman – Have you ever thought of writing a novel for Mills and Boon?,the more I read of your misty eyed,romantic notions the more I conclude that you would be an absolute natural!.

    #761675
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
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    @stuntman_matt – I understand what you mean about keeping around for the dressing room or training pitch. Reminds me a little of the old bike I keep in the garage along with the toys from my childhood. Its fair enough keeping all the useless junk for sentemental reasons but there is a price to pay. The price being there is no room to store the new stuff you need to store.

    Thats the same at United. If you have all these over the hill and never got up the hill players on the books how are youth going to get their change. And how can we keep the wages down when we are paying 300k a week to a man just to be on the training pitch.

    #761693

    moral
    Participant
    • :

    Wayne Rooney.
    6 Premier League goals in the entire calendar year 2015.
    Truly shocking.
    #captainfantastic
    #annualwage15m
    #blindleadingtheblind #puttheStrikeinStriker

    #761714

    Stuntman_Matt
    Participant
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    @blacky
    We are a “romantic” club arn’t we? Hence Charlton still being around, the statues outside OT, the photo’s and pictures on the walls. It all stems from our romance with the Busby Babes right? That is what I like most about Man Utd. Condone it or condemn it, I don’t really care.

    @Mac
    Maybe you just need a bigger garage! In all seriousness, I appreciate what you are saying but I don’t think that it has to be one or the other. Would you say that we don’t have room for both then? It’s common knowledge within the football world that players that have experienced success in their careers are a good guide to the younger players finding their feet and to players from a different culture. Why get rid of Rooney and Carrick if you can get rid of say Fellaini and Rojo and replace those players with better players? If we were to clear out the “SAF players” then I think it would be important to replace them with British players that already know what is expected of them and the club as opposed to having trouble fitting in like Depay.

    #761717

    Anonymous
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    As an Arsenal fan, I must admit, Rooney is right down the very bottom of players I would take from the United squad.

    Giroud has the harshest critics of any striker in the league, but wouldnt United fans kill for Rooney to match Giroud’s goal scoring.

    #761732
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
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    @stuntman_matt – I agree we should get rid of Fellaini Rojo but if we replace them is not creating space. I accept that oldies can pass on knowledge to youth but that is not necessarily true for all players. Some have more to pass on than others. That said, it is not justification in itself for keeping players. In Carrick case he is 34. The time for the old to pass on to the young is when they are 28-30. Its not an excuse to keep players past their sell by date. If it were we’d still have Rio Giggs and Scholes in the team. In fact keeping those oldies past their sell by date is one of the causes of our dilemma. btw – did not Scholes Giggs block Pogba. And in the case of Rooney don’t you think 300k pw is a lot to pay somebody just for passing on knowledge on the training pitch. You have to consider the total wage bill. Taking big earners off the payroll allows us to get top stars.

    As for expanding the garage we can’t expand the number of players on the pitch or number of games. If we have big earners but dont play them it adds to the wage bill. If we play them as second string or cover it blocks the path for youth. I would say yes to keeping an oldie if we were talking about the likes of a Scholes who was a true great who could make the difference but I dont think Rooney or Carrick fit that bill and certainly not the likes of Young and Valencia.

    #761756
    jimshady
    jimshady
    Participant
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    I whole heartedly disagree and today we had glimpses that our team is good, quite good in fact! The problem is that lack of freedom giving to them by the Dutch clown! He is the problem!!

    #762020

    Blacky
    Participant
    • :

    @Stuntman – I’m sure if you had your way you would have Robbo as chairman,Becks as Chief Exec,King Eric as press relations officer,Gary Nev as Director of football,Giggsy managing the team assisted by Scholesy and Pip Nev with various other old hero’s running the youth system and scouting networks,even though not a single one of them is qualified to do the job.This is Manchester United FC,a major player in a multi billion dollar industry,not the family butcher’s shop!.What you are advocating is the old ‘school tie’ network,jobs for the boys system where rampant nepotism rules the world.Do you not realise this is precisely how Ferguson ran the club during his latter wasted years,giving and retaining his mates and family members jobs they were not good enough to do and it’s one of the biggest reasons why he left such a shambles behind him that we are still suffering from now?.
    You strike me as the sort of guy who would sit day after day wistfully gazing through your front window just waiting for your first ever love to rock back up to your door wearing only an overcoat and a big smile begging you to take her back,when the reality is she has already forgotten about you years ago because her new bloke is 10 years younger,much better looking,has got a foot long todger and millions in the bank!.It just ain’t gonna happen and you need to deal with it and move on,simple as that.

    #762095
    Adlab
    Adlab
    Participant
    • :

    I watched the game last night and I thought you were a little unlucky. However I cant believe how bad Rooney was. He seems to be a yard slower and has trouble controlling the ball. How he was made man of the match on BT beggars belief.
    As for Depay, £25m! Crickey – not much of a clue.
    If it wasnt for De Gea you would have lost. He was clearly man of the match.
    You dont want Giggs as manager either.
    What do you all think of Schweinseiger? Looks too slow to me

    #762257
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
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    @blacky – Yes the club should always want the best man for the job but do you not think that ex-players have many of the qualities needed. Example: the manager should command respect and know what it is to play the game. An ex player ticks those boxes better than most.

    Seems to me the criteria has morphed to be that the United manager must have managed another top club. That invariably means has been tired by a top club (eg LvG). Baffles me how being deeemed not good enough for rival clubs make somebody good enough for us.

    If you look at the top managers they all got a big break to manage a big club. Pep went from Barca B to Barca A without managing anywhere.

    Personally I would rather take a chance on an ex player and give him time knowing results may be poor than take a chance on JM not rocking the boat of conman Louis delivering. That said, I advocate management development ladder by appointing legends to be managers of secondary teams.

    #762329

    Stuntman_Matt
    Participant
    • :

    @blacky – You have one wild imagination buddy. If I get a job writing for Mills & Boon I’ll come to you for the plot of the novel, while I write all the romance! G Nev as DoF might not be such a bad idea! Not sure about Cantona mixing it with the press though. He would just keep talking about seaguls wouldn’t he?

    @Mac – I agree with the points you have made but considered the down side of keeping those players around as a neccessary sacrifice. I suppose it is just the most used form of giving players a club education. A better way to do it would probably be in the form of “La Masia” or what City have done with their academy. I would like the club to follow the model of a Barcelona as opposed to a Real Madrid. That is why I have not been completely against LVG recently, intruducing ideas such as an U21 stadium, although I don’t think he can really offer much more than that anymore!

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