Keeper conundrum

This topic contains 53 replies, has 21 voices, and was last updated by  Paxman 7 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #1272300
    Razor
    Razor
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    • :

    Karius has had a couple of games now and has looked far from convincing to say the least. Now, I understand the need to give our new goalkeeper time to settle in, but this is getting ridiculous. How can one of the best goalkeepers in Germany last season be this bad? Klopp has shown that with some proper training a bunch of players who were widely considered to be average can become something special. Why has this not happened with ANY of our goalkeepers? This has been going on for several years now. The logical explanation is that the coaching is poor. I’m not exactly sure what part of John Archterberg’s credentials indicated that he was going to be a good coach because his career certainly didn’t set off any fireworks. Ever since he came in all our GKs have all gone to shit. Even Reina’s decline coincided with his arrival in the first team. It’s the easiest way to sort this problem out right now IMO.

    #1272381

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    Have to agree.
    Although it’s still very very early he hasn’t been filling us with confidence especially with crosses/corners.
    That aspect of his game needs to improve dramatically.

    I’ve had my suspicions over Acterberg too. Reina went down hill quickly when he came on board and no keeper has performed consistently well since.
    I’ve also heard reports previously that some of his methods are outdated. I guess Klopp is clued up and will make changes if he feels neccessary.

    #1272465

    Big_Balls
    Participant
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    Just starting to think Mignolet has pulled off one of the most audacious scams in premier league, doubling up as Karius he has pretty much cemented his position as number 1

    #1272663
    j c
    j c
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    Karius didn’t put a foot wrong last night other than that one slightly mis-cued first time pass.
    For the Zlatan header he was right on it, gave Zlatan a lot to think about and a much smaller angle to aim for. That’s the sort of one where Mignolet often stays on his line and gets caught out.
    He dealt with a dangerous low ball in the box very well early on in the game. And didn’t have a whole lot to do overall.

    Admittedly when your keeper miscues a pass it can often result in a conceded goal. But let’s keep it in proportion, it was good closing down from Utd who I’m sure were aware that is a weak area of ours. We do (even before Karius came in) often have problems with taking risks at the back.
    He just about recovered to put the challenge in on Zlatan, who missed, and it’s a clean sheet at the end of the day.

    Maybe it’s nerves, maybe it’s adapting, but we can’t just cherry pick the worst moments to judge him on. We should remember he did a couple decent things in the game as well.

    #1273116

    liverlad
    Participant
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    Jc.

    He didn’t have much to do & one of the few crosses he had to deal with like many in his games, he flapped at it. As I mentioned in a previous post one report I read said that Karius was Man U’s most dangerous player or words to that effect.

    #1273209
    redrob
    redrob
    Participant
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    FFS Karius nearly cost us the game, didn’t have to make one decent save and was a near catastrophe on the cross and the massive chance he handed on a plate to them. Can’t think what Mignolet has done to deserve this from start of season. He must have been very pissed off to watch that display last night.

    #1273218
    j c
    j c
    Participant
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    Yeah there was one cross he didn’t get a good hand on.

    Guess you could throw that in as another dodgy moment. But he’s very quick to react, comes off his line very fast, and definitely has some ability there.

    The man at the other end, De Gea had numerous dodgy moments in big games, in his first couple of years. It happens.

    #1274049

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
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    Karius doesn’t look to me based on what I’ve seen of him so far to be the Keeper to solve what seems to be a problem position at Liverpool and his frailties or indeed Mignolet’s frailties might well ultimately be the difference between Liverpool winning or not winning the title this season.

    #1274100

    Sean the sailor
    Participant
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    nine, liverpool are not going to win the league mate.If we finish top 4 ,its a huge achievement

    #1274112

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    The thing Klopp likes about Karius is he plays in the same style as Neuer (not anywhere as good YET) but he will stop so many chances which won’t look much just because of his starting positions, Neuer faces very few one-on-ones because any through ball that would normally end up as a one-on-one is swept up by the keeper. I have lost count over the years of the amount of time a player going through one-on-one with Migs actually collects the through ball just outside our 18 yard box, or even on some occasions inside, because Migs was glued to his line. This won’t happen with Karius but he won’t get the credit because it won’t look like a good save even though it possibly could be saving a certain goal.

    When you play high pressing you need a high line and for this you need a sweeper keeper, which Migs is not.

    #1274121

    ian2105
    Participant
    • :

    Have to agree with most posters here and not with JC. Karius has given me no confidence in him yet, from pre season through to now. He looked shaky before and he looks worse now.

    Granted he may have been good last season, he is young in a new country, and that he needs to be given some patience as other awesome goalies like de gea have also previously taken time to settle in. But we can’t give him too much patience, after all a keeper of de gea quality is very rare and there is no guarantee that just because de gea became the best in the league that Karius can follow suit.

    He needs to sort his performances out. He’s coming off his line early but changing him mind, running backwards. Probably confuses defenders who are left in no-mans land and don’t know whether to attack the ball or not. Panic/confusion spreads easily – a stick often used to batter mignolet.

    I believe migs deserves to be our current number 1, and it was a mistake to introduce Karius into the league so soon (he should have been given a run in cup games I think). But, now he is in the team and not doing a great job, we do need to support him whilst he is there so that he can hopefully turn this around and not have his confidence shattered. Seen it happen to so many England goalkeepers in recent years – and it seems very hard to recover from

    #1274178
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
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    This was my problem with Klopp dropping Migs before he’d done anything worthy of dropping . . because now Karius has to be dropped early on in his career here.

    It’s pure luck that Karius hasn’t cost us a few games already and he’s only played a few, it will happen, maybe next match.

    #1274184
    Red Herring
    Red Herring
    Participant
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    Ian>> Good post above – I agree with nearly everything you’ve said.

    As regards the general “love in” surrounding de Gea, yes he’s a very good keeper- and certainly a great shot-stopper, but I think his great reviews need to be tempered a bit as he is actually quite conservative when it comes to coming off his line. i.e. if you stay at home a bit more, then it doesn’t look like you have made a mistake when you don’t make contact with the ball. However, a goal may still ensue. To put it another way, he excels at the eye-candy stuff, but tends to veer away from the more ugly aspects of keeping. Also, from a technical perspective, he favours using his feet/legs to stop shots more than most would – and probably because he is very good at it – but sticking a foot out as opposed to a low hand eliminates any adjustment that you may need to make after that initial movement. (I know this sounds perverse after his save against Can on Monday – but his blocked vision offered no alternative.)

    #1274220

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    As I have said, When you play high pressing you need a high line and for this you need a sweeper keeper, which Migs is not.

    He concedes to many one-on-ones which don’t look like his mistakes but they are because he is rooted to his line, even Vardy’s wonder goal last season against us would have been put in the stands by Karius before Vardy got to it, we need to have patience with him. Since he cam in it is P4, W3, D1, L0

    #1274268

    ian2105
    Participant
    • :

    Red herring – interesting Points on de gea. If he stays on his line though and then pulls off a worldie save from the resulting shot on target though, then still ok keeping in my opinion! But yeah you’ll look better if you never put yourself in a position where you’re likely to make a mistake….

    I actually like that he uses his feet. I often wonder why keepers are so afraid to stop a shot with their foot and rather choose to throw their whole body at it – which takes far longer and means they don’t get there (sometimes they just need to stick a leg at the ball!) … but I’m no goalie coach and see very few use their feet so I’m sure there is good reasoning behind it

    #1274277
    Red Herring
    Red Herring
    Participant
    • :

    Pax>> I understand the general principle that you are driving at as regards sweeper/keeper, but I don’t believe that different keeper positioning would have allowed Mignolet or Karius to get to the Mahrez pass and put it into row Z. Mignolet was positioned on the edge of his area, he initially came towards the ball with a view to intercepting it, but then realised that there was quite a bit of bend on it taking it away from him and correctly retreated. Also, it was not as if the pass was along the floor, so there would only have been 2 potential times when Mignolet could have made contact with the ball: 1.) when it first bounced and 2.) when it came down for the second time when JV vollied it. Take a look at the video and you’ll see that neither of these occasions were genuine opportunities for the keeper.

    #1274280
    j c
    j c
    Participant
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    Let’s be careful not to judge players on a knee-jerk reaction.

    We’ve conceded 2 goals in 4 games with Karius in goal. He’s just had a broken hand not long ago as well, so might not even be at 100% at the moment.

    Do I need remind you how many goals we’ve conceded with Mignolet between the sticks in recent years?

    #1274298
    j c
    j c
    Participant
    • :

    Almost strikes me as ‘better the devil you know’ situation.

    We’re still finding out about what Karius is all about, and probably not seeing the best of him at the moment.

    But Mignolet played 6 conceded 8, Karius played 4 conceded 2 – seems a bit harsh to be calling for him to be dropped already. We should get behind the lads, especially new players and help them settle in.

    #1274304

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Red Herring – It almost completely validates my point, the ball was in the area for a long time Migs darts of his line then realises he is not going to make it, so quickly retreats, Karius would have been on the 18 yard line when Mahrez plays the ball, and would have been able to get there, no sweeper would be happy with a player pick up the ball level with his own penalty box, yes it was in but even waiting for the second bounce a sweeper keeper would be able to hit it when he wants where as to score like that you have to wait until the ball is just at the right height. Most sweeper keepers would have mopped that up, and if not planted it in the stand scuffed it out for some kind of throw.

    Watch Karius position the other night when Utd had it in their half he was around 20 yards from his own goal. This allows us to push the back line up, allowing the high press with less opportunity for the opposition to counter, not saying it is fool proof but it is the same thing Pep has done at City, and what Bayern have done for years.

    #1274307

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    JC – Couldn’t agree more 🙂

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