Love the pessimism on here

This topic contains 10 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by mwake mwake 6 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #1505253
    Pool_of_red
    Pool_of_red
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    • :

    It must just be part and parcel of the modern game or just being a Liverpool fan I suppose but there is so much negativity about our current squad. We NEED a top center back. That is for certain. But I keep seeing moans about our need for a “real” goal scorer, about our “lack” of dynamism. Not sure if any of you watched last season at all but scoring wasn’t much of a problem! Klopp has our team playing so that the burden of scoring gets spread around quite evenly, and i expect salah to contribute even moreso. As for dynamism, well, so many of you want to pigeonhole players into just an “8” or a “6”. That’s the opposite of dynamism. We have an array of midfielders that work tirelessly on defense yet are all capable of chipping in with goals and assists. THAT is what being dynamic is! I still believe keita is a target that is worth whatever price we pay and we need the extra man power and skill with the CL. But again, he is a tireless defensive mid that also breaks forward and creates. Henderson, Can , wij, etc all do this already as well. Why the panic? The modern game is moving away from these set roles and positions and especially with the way klopp plays I am certain we will see this trend continue. Gone are the days where we need Torres hitting 30 goals a season only bein supplied by Gerrard. The work load is spread across goal scoring and defensive duties, and i personally love the way the system works. Emre hasn’t even gotten close to filling his potential yet, hendo is just now coming into his prime, firmino still has plenty of room for improvement, Lovren continued to improve last season, origi is still what, 22? And hardly played as bad as what you all make him out to be, regardless of whether he will actually make the grade to be a pool player. With how we finished last season, knowing we have a constantly improving squad, knowing we have bought one excellent signing already and attempting to make more, I’m just not sure why there is so much disgruntled commentary on here.

    #1505266

    y_nwa
    Participant
    • :

    I agree with you abt the idea that nearly all our players can score from open play and this helps out when an attacking player is injured but the players we have bar sturridge, all of them can’t beat the outside trap or be a nuisance in the last 11 m.

    how do you break a team that sits deep in defense?

    I do think last season we had this problem of scoring goals against teams that parked the bus.

    Honestly,if aguero is on the market,i would go for him instead of aubam.

    we have a constantly improving squad that hasn’t won anything for the past 5 years.

    klopp has managed to have a good base in attack for the coming season :
    left wing – salah
    right wing – mane
    counhinho playing just behind firmino

    If we sign aguero or mandzukic,i think scoring goals against the lesser sides will be easier.

    Now if we get a cb that has a good distribution, then we can skip the midfield line.

    #1505324
    mwake
    mwake
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    • :

    Good post pool of red. I found your post very interesting and I agree with a lot of what you say. For me, if I have displayed any pessimism then it’s because of what I see and that is a lack of balance in the squad and even at full strength, we are a little unbalanced in our first team too. Yes, definitely did score a lot of goals and entertain the neutrals but the goals dried up when Mane left and that is why probably why some are calling for a prolific striker.

    As for the midfield do agree with you that Klopp has built a fluid interchangeable system. However, to be frank I don’t think Klopp looks at that team and thinks this is finished If we don’t sign Keita I’m sure he will be after someone similar, someone who can break through from midfield and still defend.

    However can’t agree with you on Lovren and Origi, those players should be the third choice next season (after Matip/VVD & Firminio/Sturridge. I’ll try to explain my reasonings, Klopps high octane system means that we will get exposed defensively. This means Klops defenders have to be very good on one on ones, anticipation, positioning, and pace and this is where Lovren fails on. Don’t get me wrong Lovren is strong and occasionally very useful but only with a defender who can ‘hold his hand’. Some of our worst games last season was when Matip as injured and Lovren was the main man in defense. As for Origi, he has time on his side but he was starting to do the things that Benteke did before he got sold. Origi would forget to play as a striker and didn’t anticipate space in the attacking zones. I don’t know whether that was down to confidence issues but he seemed scared of failure scared to get in those areas and make intelligent runs. However, he still got around 10 goals(?) so he can be useful. I have more hope for Origi than Lovren if thruth be told and if both do well and we win a trophy or two then I’ll happily eat a large cake of humble pie 🙂

    #1505326

    captkirk
    Participant
    • :

    The goals dried up when Mane left. Was that the sole reason or was it just a coincidence? Remember we played 9 games in 25 days with Klopp chasing the cups with the strongest team whereas the lack of depth of our squad would have called for the youngsters to be drafted in. He made some bizarre decisions such as playing Sturridge in an Fa cup replay and leaving him on the bench in the league. The fact that we finished the season strongly without Mane makes me believe that there were other reasons for our poor form in January/February.

    #1505333

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
    • :

    A lot of short sightness, 9 games in 25 days, that is a form killer.

    We also lost a lot of players, Coutinho, Henderson, Mane, Matip to name a few.

    Lovren was injured and coming back unfit into the first team, it also took a full month for Coutinho to recover.

    Our main defensive problems were only happening because our back line never managed more than 5 games together before injuries, suspensions or the fiasco with Matip’s registration.

    He also took a full month to bounce back.

    With better depth, I don’t see the same problem happening again as we are strengthening the first team, I fully trust most of the lads to deliver. Lallana, Wiji, Milner, Can and a few others can come up with the goods when recovering from a game on the bench, as opposed to be asked to come up with the goods when recovering from injury.

    Salah alone can be expected to add at least 10 goals to a already strong first eleven. Van Dijk would raise expectations for the defense as well, another 10 goal margin maybe there.

    Of course it does not work like that but I’m loving what is happening at the club.

    #1505337
    mwake
    mwake
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    • :

    True Capkirk I remember Klop made some strange decisions last year and we did play a lot of games too. Manes absence can’t be discounted though, we lost some of our swagger when Mane got injured but credit to the team they made it (just) over the line, but let’s be really honest, a lot of those matches were nail biters including worldies and Mingloet being possssed by Buffon 🙂 The only semi-comfortable matches that I can think of was West Ham (after Liverpool fan Andre Ayew failed to equalise by hitting the post twice in 3 seconds) and Middlesborough (after the referee decided that Lovrens WWE audition moves was not a penalty).

    #1505342
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
    • :

    I agree with a lot of that but regardless of how dynamic your team is in the flow of the game, those roles still need to be filled in a general sense. I agree that we don’t need to go buy that “top goal scorer” that people keep harping on and on about. Last season it drove me mad to hear this while watching Firmino do what Klopp wanted him to do. It isn’t totally about the individual and that’s the thing that our game under Klopp has moved on from. Firmino is in the team because he understands this more than others, although I’m sure Klopp would also like to get more goals from him. As you say, he has room for improvement and not just the expression.

    As for Origi, I can’t stress how poor I think this guy is. I am hopeful that Solanke can replace him in the squad though.

    #1505501
    AK
    AK
    Participant
    • :

    Some great points made

    Personally as i mentioned during last season i thought it was very simplistic to blame Mane`s absence for our drop in form he was one of many reasons IMO.

    When posters mention we need more dynamism its mainly in reference to when playing teams who park the proverbial bus they are referring to. As i have mentioned before i think we lacked creative full backs in those games, teams who sit deep need to be stretched along the width of the pitch which then creates pockets for our central creative players to do damage. (I also think Anfield pitch is a bit narrow which hampers us in certain games)

    With regards to pessimism most Fans seem optimistic regarding our transfer window & next season.

    #1505759
    Pool_of_red
    Pool_of_red
    Participant
    • :

    Some of you missed my first point that I do believe VVD or a similar quality defender IS a priority. But we have a squad that is continuing to get better across the board. Our more senior players are just entering their prime i.e., hendo, Lovren, sturridge, lallana and coutinho and are primed to have their best seasons yet. Even migs was starting to look like he might yet make the grade. and we have endless young players that are all primed to have standout seasons of their careers thus far i.e., Can, wij, plus even younger up and coming stars i.e. grujic, Woodburn, gomez, TAA who have already demonstrated substantial quality and who are primed for break out seasons . Even origi who you all love to slate has scored 11 goals and 4 assists I believe in 40 total appearances, most of which have been as a substitute. Then there’s mane, salah, firmino, matip et al who are just shy of being dare I say top class bordering world class. If, and I say if, the progress continues at current pace we will have a star studded team this season. We have an advantage because while other teams have star studded lineups who are known entities, it would appear outside of Liverpool fans ITK that no one else is aware of how close we are to being on the brink of having a truly special squad. I truly hope we can complete the keita signing because that would be such an invaluable addition that would compliment us so well. But these reports saying we need 2,3 even 4 signings are just ludicrous.

    #1506660
    Davinci
    Davinci
    Participant
    • :

    Agree and disagree with what you’ve said PoR. I agree that VVD (or similar) is a must. We defo need at least one CB at the back with genuine pace. Matip isn’t slow but I wouldn’t want him in a one on one with some of the Prems quickest. I saw VVD deal with Mane’s pace very well – and there aren’t many quicker than Mane.

    Personally, I DO think we need 4-5 new 1st team players.

    CB as we’ve already discussed. But DM too. For too many years our CBs have been exposed by a weak shield in front of it. Often the threat should be snuffed out before it even gets to our CB’s but it isn’t. We need power in that area. I know we are after Keita and I know he’s supposed to be a ‘Kante’ type box to box mid but it’s taking so long to get him that I hope we have alternatives lined up. I like Kondogbia and apparently he’s available for £18m, so not a bad option. Box to box to and adds power and height.

    LB seems to be being taken care of today with Robertson. Can’t say I know much about him; tended to avoid Hull matches unless against us.

    ST. We need a reliable top quality striker. To think otherwise is to delude ourselves. Studge is quality but he’s so far from reliable it’s scary. Ings is another who is not only injury prone but not top quality either. Origi is just a striker lacking in intelligence and I can’t see when that’s ever gonna change. Solanke unknown quantity at this point. Yes, goals were spread around last time but we had a less demanding schedule last season. We may not be able to afford Auba (as well as VVD/Keita) but maybe Celtic’s Dembele could be a viable option. And I doubt he’d be more than £30m+.

    GK is the last position that may need looking at. Mings did well the last part of the season but there’s really no telling if that was simply good form or a step up in quality. He doesn’t even have to be like De Gea/Coirtois. He just needs to cut out the errors and I’d be happy with him.

    I just want the new players in and settled before the CL qualifiers. I hope Klopp and co know exactly what they are doing….Peace

    #1506717
    mwake
    mwake
    Participant
    • :

    I’m starting to see how Klopp is more likely to stick with what he has than get second or third choice. I thinks he knows he needs these additions to be true title contenders but even without them Klopp seemingly has thus ability to get this team to do what he wants… basically I think he’ll be disappointed but won’t panic buy.

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