Michael Oliver

This topic contains 269 replies, has 27 voices, and was last updated by  nine nine nine 7 years ago.

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  • #1452020

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    CM, whether Mourinho implemented the same tactics during his Chelsea tenure is irrelevant to what happened on Monday night he may well have done but tbh I can’t remember it happening.

    Pretty much the whole of the football world across TV, the press,Radio,the pundits ex Referres like Halsey and Poll and opposition fans all agree that Mourinho sent out his United team on Monday night with a plan to stop Hazard playing by fair means or foul Jones selection in midfield was testimony of that.

    A number of the Chelsea posters on here inc Jay and myself have said that the yellow card for Herrera judged in isolation was a harsh but it came after an accumulation of fouls on Hazard the one that got him sent off just seconds after both Jones and Smalling bring warned about it which with Herrera being on a yellow card was more than a little foolish.

    I’m really not sure what point you are trying to prove now because other than United fans you are unlikely to get anyone else on here to deny what they all saw with their own eyes.

    It happened the games long gone now time to move on mate.

    #1452025

    Paxman
    Participant
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    Not read the whole thread as it is too long, but I am sure others have pointed out that both Valencia and Rojo should have seen red too, and there were a few Utd players should have seen yellows, I think Oliver let Utd off with lots of decisions.

    #1452033
    liquidator
    liquidator
    Participant
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    More and more and more ridiculous. I have got it wrong. Chelsea supporters have got it wrong. All other clubs supporters have got it wrong. SAF has go it wrong. Do you know the old story of the squaddie’s mum saying her son was the only one correctly marching going right left, right left? That’s you, that is!

    #1452038

    CM
    Participant
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    Nine-

    My argument is that a manager today would not go out and tell his players to foul a player in order to stop him. They would probably tell them, he is their main threat and you need to stop him. My interpretation of that is by ensuring he does not have space on the ball and tackle him. Jay says managers tell their players to stop them by any means possible. That may have been the case 10 years ago, but in recent times that has been eradicated. Hazard is Chelsea’s main threat, he is their playmaker, their flair player and has a good eye on goal. His dribbling and how easily get glides past players reminds me of Ronaldo or closest to thing to Ronaldo, problem is even though I believes Ronaldo had less protection from the refs, majority of the challenges on him were poorly timed and were meant well because it was difficult to get the ball off him, just like it is difficult to get the ball off Hazard.

    If this is something that happens all the time, then Liverpool fans would be talking about it in regards to Mane, Arsenal about Sanchez, City in regards to Sane or Sterling. Yet Pep, Klopp have failed to mention this being done to their players.

    Going back to Mondays game, Hazard was brought down by Darmian, in the 2nd half Valenica took the ball off Hazard in a similar challenge that Darmian made, yet Valencia got the ball, Darmian didn’t. If you ask any United fan, Darmian is terrible at tackling and he has a mistake in him, players go past him fairly easily and his defending is terrible. That is the reason why I believe his challenge was just a poor attempted tackle by him, not something he was told to do intentionally.

    #1452039
    Stuilse
    Stuilse
    Participant
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    CM are u one of those blokes that always need the last word? Bladdey hell mate. Just accept that Utd were under instruction to mark Hazard tighter than a nuns nancy. That’s however easier said than done. The net result, multiple fouls, warnings, a yellow card, another foul…a red. Chelsea won by the solitary goal..it could have been 4 or 5. That’s it really.

    #1452043
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
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    CM

    yes I am an ABU but in all fairness i am also ABUAC with U only very slightly before C

    this has nothing to do with my proudly worn ABU hat im afraid it just is and anyone with half a brain, a smidgeon of common sense and 2 working (even 1) working eye can tell you if they watched the game up to the sending off

    anyone that has watched arsenal games when we had better flair players. Sanchez does get targeted but he is small and powerful and tends to stay up more than most, as you know we have had plenty of flair players in the past and had oppo teams openly state their tactics…kick them off the park…

    any time ive seen messi play or even ronaldo at RM i see they get above average fouls, because they are targeted, you cant NOT target such skillful players, its just in the real top players they take the kicking and still often score 4 and win games

    when it come to Man U im not neutral, when it come to Man U Chelsea im about as impartial as is possible.

    no one is saying deliberately injure a player but yes to sticking a foot in even at the risk of cards hence the rotation

    #1452046

    CM
    Participant
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    Stuilse-

    No harm in debating, that is the whole point of this forum. If it is getting tedious for you, well do not click on the thread. I guess this is getting personal for some now because I have not said the words ‘Ok then you’re right, I agree with you’. It is not always about sharing the same views, having different opinions is what gets a good debate going.

    #1452071
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    i skimmed that but did read

    ‘Ok then you’re right, I agree with you’.

    cheers Mr that put that one to bed and your the bigger man for it 😉

    #1452099
    Dandy
    Dandy
    Participant
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    CM has a history of arguing the toss just for the sake of it, it’s not a debate because he won’t concede an inch. Occasionally in the past he’s taken to saying he was ‘on the wind up’ after spending arguing black is white. He’s a good enough guy though.

    I haven’t seen a more obvious attempt to neutralise a player in quite some time. On another day United might have gotten away with it but Oliver was obviously wise to is as were the commentators.

    I don’t know why it’s such a slur to say United tried to put Hazard out of the game? It was smart gamesmanship but on this occasion it failed.

    #1452120
    liquidator
    liquidator
    Participant
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    Dandy – I agree entirely – In the modern game which is laced with cynicism and gamesmanship, its absolutely a legitimate tactic, although by doing so, you run the risk of giving away free kicks in dangerous areas and of course yellow and ultimately red cards. As the manager deploying it you trust your players to take things to the limit, but with football being football, and the highly charged emotions that surround game such as Monday’s, there is always the chance one of your players will end up doing something daft, which is what happened.

    #1452121
    Red Herring
    Red Herring
    Participant
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    Wonderfuel Gas stated earlier on in the week about Michael Oliver “I doubt he’ll be getting a top match for a long time.” Is 6 days a long time in your book, as he’s got the top fixture this weekend (Man City v Liverpool)? Effectively, a vote of confidence in his performance from Monday night.

    #1452140
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
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    does make it interesting though, if he has a mare then we could have either or both sets of fans complaining after the game and this would actually vindicate WG some what….

    #1452156
    Stuilse
    Stuilse
    Participant
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    That’s if WG’s missus lets him anywhere near a telly, football ground or pub. CM…nothing wrong with debate but sometimes its just the decent thing to admit they’re wrong every once in a while…like you are in this instance. I can tell you now that if it was Ronnie we were up against and Jose was managing us, he would have had pre match natter which would have included the words…”don’t let that nancy-boy get passed you at any cost,” as well as a quiet word in JT’s ear which would have been a wee more crude. No big deal, I don’t blame him as Hazard is one of the worlds best.

    #1452168

    CM
    Participant
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    Come on Dandy.

    Do you genuinely believe I am on the wind up here. When I am on a wind up, I thoroughly indicate and hint it, it is also on a rare occurrence. I believe cynical fouling done tactically has been eradicated, 5-10 years ago, it was spoken about quite often when you had clubs like Bolton doing around. It is hardly discussed today. Like I said, how often do you hear Klopp complain about Mane being fouled cynically, Wenger in regards to Sanchez etc. Wenger use to more about harsh challenges all the time, he rarely does now and it indicates what I have been saying, it is not as often as Jay and few others make out.

    I am not saying United did not target Hazard on Monday, I am saying it was not done in order to contentiously foul him as a tactical approach him as some put it. A few of the challenges were mistimed. It would have been foolish for Jose to take such a approach, I would be surprised if he told his players to do such a thing knowing how much it has been clamped down on. The players who were challenging Hazard were the players who were closest to him at the time and they got their challenges badly wrong. I saw the same thing happening to Willian and Moses, yet the tackles were more successful in comparison.

    #1452170

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Steveo – I don’t think that would vindicate WG point, I think we can debate individual decisions, but the fact Oliver is regarded as one of the countries top refs means he gets most decisions right, not all but most.

    #1452172
    Dandy
    Dandy
    Participant
    • :

    CM – It’s usually the underdog who resort to those tactics and in this case United were that. Jose is a cynical man who knows that when Hazard is on form he’s unplayable. I’d be amazed if he didn’t tell his players to try eradicate Hazard’s threat by getting tight and if necessary commit the sort of niggling founds you get away with more often than not.

    The treatment Hazard got wasn’t normal and the amount of fouls he received weren’t a freak, he was targeted in my opinion. It happens every week, teams will push the limit and get away with as much gamesmanship as they can. You say it doesn’t happen, i’ll find you a scenario this weekend where it has. Aguero will be targeted, or Costa, or Coutinho. Costa and Zaha are two of the most dangerous players in the league and are the top 2 most fouled players.

    #1452184

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    Let’s all just agree CM is right that we were all watching the game with our eyes tight shut on Monday night and pretty much all of the media, ex Refs and pundits have got it wrong too. 🙂

    #1452210
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    Paxman so seems to me your saying you agree that he is one of the top refs, was Monday just an off day for you with regards to his decisions or do you think he got most right? Id say he got few right, CM has posted a clip of other games he has not done well in. i am not sure i dont really follow refs but i do think we will know more by the end of the City and Pool game, if your on the wrong end of a bad decision i wonder if you will feel the same about this top ref?

    #1452273
    liquidator
    liquidator
    Participant
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    Antoni Conte about Hazard’s treatment in Monday evening’s game:

    ‘I think it’s right for the referees always to make the best decision and try to get the players to have the respect for their opponents and for football. We play football. I know it can happen that you can be kicked. It’s normal, this. ‘But the referee must pay great attention and then try to respect the rules of football. The football is a great sport.’

    Referring to Monday’s game against United, he added: ‘It’s important to underline that I spoke about the situation, about Eden Hazard. ‘I replied in this way, that in the first 20-25 minutes I saw only this type of situation for him, and it was impossible for him to play football.

    Clearly someone else who doesn’t know what they are talking about.

    #1452279
    Wonderfuel Gas
    Wonderfuel Gas
    Participant
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    Good god, you’re still going on about it? I said then he said then she said…

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