Super Cup

This topic contains 97 replies, has 21 voices, and was last updated by roygbiv roygbiv 6 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 18 posts - 81 through 98 (of 98 total)
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  • #1514194

    hookeddevil
    Participant
    • :

    On the goals last season debate. According to premier league.com Utd had the 4th highest number of shots on goal @ 591 and scored 54! That’s a less than 10% conversion rate. I think the players are to blame for not putting the ball away. Utd were also top of the big chances missed table with 50.
    To use the Bournemouth comparison, they scored 55 from 452 shots (12%) and missed 31 big chances. If Utd had the same conversion rate as Bournemouth they’d have scored 71 goals. So considering big chances missed and the conversion rate I think the players need to finish more of the chances. It’s nothing to do with luck and if Bournemouth can finish 12% of chances with their players it’s not a stretch to suggest Utd can too.
    Add those extra 17 goals to last season. For argument, 8 to games won, 8 to games drawn and 1 to games lost. That’s an extra 16 points (85 pts) or a comfortable 3rd place / title challenge (Spurs finished 2nd with 86pts), which is probably where we’ll be this year.

    #1514195

    hookeddevil
    Participant
    • :

    As for the actual match last night. I think Real would have handed that beating and performance to any of the top 6 in the premier league. They are just that far ahead at the moment.

    #1514241

    happyhurling
    Participant
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    RS – Do teams park the bus against Bournemouth? No. Cheers.

    #1514242

    homerjay540
    Participant
    • :

    Rubbish game. Can’t sit back against the likes of Real Madrid. Whenever we pressed they made mistakes. I’m not going to give the players too much stick though, for me it’s more the way Mourinho set the team up.
    He needs to start Martial, Rashford and Lukaku upfront against West Ham.

    #1514243

    happyhurling
    Participant
    • :

    Blacky – I think we’ll be 6-10 points off top spot, there you go. Do you grace us with any predictions we can sling back in your face come May? Or just that every player we have is shit apart from Timothy Fosu-Mensah?

    #1514257

    rs83
    Participant
    • :

    Happy – do teams park the bus against city, spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool arsenal?

    #1514268

    happyhurling
    Participant
    • :

    That wasn’t your question mate was it? You asked about Bournemouth

    #1514278
    theMartial Art
    theMartial Art
    Spectator
    • :

    The scoreline does not reflect how much superior Madrid were. That was such an embarrassing tactics from Mourinho. What’s the point of assembling such an expensive team just to park the bus and launching balls from back to front to Lukaku, Pogba, Fellaini, Rashford…. unbelievable tactics for a manager with players in the squad like Martial, Mata, Mkhitaryan… Give Mourinho 5 quid or 300 million quid to spend and he will play the same negative and defensive way with world class players or non-league players…. Ferguson would NEVER put out a side with tactics like this. Looks like we are in for another boring football tactics from the “special one”.

    #1514285
    theMartial Art
    theMartial Art
    Spectator
    • :

    @hookeddevil – It’s not due to luck that we have scored less goals than Bournemouth, it’s due to the manager’s ‘defend first’ tactics and mind set. I wonder what Fergie really thinks of this Utd team. It’s one thing to be beaten by probably the best team on the planet, but if your grand tactical master plan at 2-0 down is to throw on Fellaini, the United way has been well and truly obliterated. Love him or hate him, Fergies teams always played on the front foot, attacked the opposition, and never set out to avoid defeat. Under Mourinho, I see no creativity, no team spirit and worst of all, no goals. This season will be a war of attrition. Grinding out 1-0 wins at Old Trafford against lesser opponents, and parking the bus against the top five hoping for a draw or break away goal. It’s not going to be pretty and it’s certainly not going to be entertaining, it might be effective. But it is not the United that won trophies with a swagger. Mourinho hasn’t got a clue about attacking football thank the Lord I don’t have to suffer that rubbish would rather go shopping with the mother in law!

    #1514288

    rs83
    Participant
    • :

    Happy – original question was how come Bournemouth scored more than us, you said thats because other teams dont park the bus against them.

    So based on that your thinking is other teams park the bus against us which makes it harder for us to score more goals than Bournemouth. My response was dont those same teams park the bus agaisnt city, chelsea spurs etc? They dont seem to have a problem scoring goals

    anyway lets leave it at that you clearly seem to think we have no problems and will be there or there abouts this season, i hope you are right. Cheers

    #1514313

    Blacky
    Participant
    • :

    @happy – Do you seriously think a 10 point gap equates to a “close” challenge for the title,I mean really?.Don’t be a bloody plant pot matey!,your response tells me all I need to know,ie you are only slightly more confident than I am that this shower are good enough to take it to the wire in April and May.
    For me,anything much over a handful of points is too far away to count and for the record I will bet you that unless something really good happens in what remains of this window then we will be closer to 5th place than top points wise come the end of the season.
    PS They’re not all “shit” mate but by fuck there’s far too many of them that are or even worse,simple as that.

    #1514320
    roygbiv
    roygbiv
    Participant
    • :

    happy, the reason so many teams get away so easily by parking the bus against us is that our attackers are A) usually very isolated, making it easy to double up on them and B) often too far from goal as their first object is to track back. We don’t have proper wingers but the likes of Rashford, Martial and Mikhitaryan have the potential to offer threat as wide forwards. Instead they’re virtually being deployed as wing-backs, which makes it impossible for them to hurt teams on the counter.

    For me, we should either go 3-5-2 with Lukaku & Rashford/Martial up front and Mikhi behind or 3-4-3 with the wide forwards staying further forward (see how that benefitted Hazard last season) instead of defending by the corner flag. The problem is that Mourinho clearly doesn’t trust his defense and wants to rectify that by getting as many players as humanly possible behind the ball. Lindelof may turn out to be a great long term signing but he’ll struggle this season, I feel, and was NOT what we needed now. We needed steel and experience at the back and seeing that we won’t aquire that this summer I don’t see Mourinho changing his approach…a long season lies ahead, I think we’ll do better than last season but there won’t be much to get excited about as things stand.

    #1514328

    homerjay540
    Participant
    • :

    Would love to see Mourinho bite the bullet and play Bailly and Lindelof together for the first three games before the international break. Jones and Smalling have had enough chances. Give these two a chance together. Yes there will be the odd mistake but i reckon after three games they will be a better pairing than anything we’ve had since Ferdinand and Vidic.

    #1514344
    hatters
    hatters
    Participant
    • :

    A welcome return to competitive football. I forgot just how volatile this forum is after every game. Good traffic now and I also see a lot of posters who hadn’t been on for a while have also popped out of the woodwork.

    It’s clear many were biting their tongues because they are growing impatient at the club not being at an elite level (player-wise) while others are not impressed with Mourinho’s style – this game served to confirm their convictions but for me there’s a very knee-jerky feel to this forum today.

    For now it’s clear that our style and formation is still coming together (hindered by defensive injuries and suspensions). I reckon we will have more quality this season but not quite enough to win the Champions League or the Premier League.

    Mourinho will have to get it right quickly otherwise I can see many are sharpening their knives already.

    I will reserve judgement for now. We are 1 game into a 60 game season and it was against the strongest possible opposition.

    #1514357

    yorkshireman200
    Participant
    • :

    There is no shortage of goal scorers in this squad, Lukaku, Rashford, Martial, Pogba, Miki, Mata and all the plus six footers from set pieces so if we don’t score enough its down to Jose and his tactics. One thing that did occur to me last night is that it will be difficult for all these tall players to press the ball for 90 mins. I certainly don’t see Fellaini, Pogba and Matic doing too much pressing in midfield!? Jose needs to get the team balance and tactics right and stop being so fucking negative. I hope and expect to see a far more attacking team on Sunday.

    #1514363
    theMartial Art
    theMartial Art
    Spectator
    • :

    @hatters – Yeah it was one game but Fergie would not have had United playing like this… United became known as the ultimate attacking team. Let’s face facts Real Madrid took it easy on us if they’d kept the foot on the gas it would have been double figures. i blame 2 things, Mourinho’s negative tactics and wrong selection. there were no reason to play defensive like we did, secondly who in their right state of mind plays Lingard ahead of Rash/Martial, Lingard scored 11 goals in 5 years LOL. He wont be a regular starter @ Stock City or Newcastle, how he starts is beyond me. either Mourinho fix that and give Martial a chance or we are going to have a disastrous season…..we were horrible to watch…… I rest my case……

    #1514385
    hatters
    hatters
    Participant
    • :

    @theMartial Art. It’s pure rubbish to suggest that Ferguson would have played an open attacking style against Real Madrid yesterday. It’s well known that he consistently played negatively against top European opposition throughout his entire 26 year reign except at Old Trafford. Either you weren’t watching or you don’t remember.

    @yorkshireman. I expect that on Sunday we will play the same way we played every Premier League game at Old Trafford last season. We will most likely dominate possession and create more chances but our finishing will make or break us in the game and also in the whole season. You are correct, Jose has to get it right on his selection. He will be setting himself up for abuse if he starts Lingard or Fellaini.

    #1514433
    roygbiv
    roygbiv
    Participant
    • :

    The result against Real Madrid is irrelevant. There’s no shame in losing to a team that’s a million miles ahead of us. It’s our approach and these obvious facts: 1) Mourinho doesn’t trust his defenders and tries to cover that up by getting everyone bar Lukaku behind the ball. 2) Lingard is preferred to Rashford and Martial because he tracks back more and the fact that offers next to nothing going forward is not an issue for Jose. 3) We’ve got a huge squad but few stand-out players who can take control of matches. 4) We lack creativity, directness and unpredictability going forward. 5) We lack steel and leadership at the back. 6) Our players struggle to string 5 passes together so our approach play looks laboured and coincidental. Hoofing it up to Fellaini and hoping for the best won’t get us very far.

    Having said all that, I do feel that the addition of Lukaku and especially Matic gives us a stronger spine and all of our rivals still have unresolved issues as well. At best, I think we could finish 3rd but we could also end up in 6th place like last season. I’m under no illusion that rebuilding this team will be a long and arduous process but let’s at least hope we’ll get some entertainment along the way because United have been synonymous with boring for way too long now.

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