The 3 City Goals Dissected

This topic contains 23 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by mwake mwake 6 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #1584400
    Rob Fort Worth TX
    Rob Fort Worth TX
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    Ok, yes, I could’ve added this to the City thread and yes we beat who will be the Champions but I simply have to have this as a new topic because it’s something that I/we witness almost weekly.

    First up, just a fantastic three points. I was hopeful with my draw prediction but I also indicated that we could catch them cold as I detected tiredness in their last couple of games but no-one could’ve have predicted a 4-3 for us, the three for City, yes, and this leads me to my post/concerns.

    First Goal (scorer Sane, 40)
    Lovely cross-field pass from Walker but Gomez decides to go for the ball as opposed to focusing on being the first defender once he knew Sane was going to get it. In defence, it’s a decision that any full back can make moreso a young fella like Gomez (but 4 or 5 goals this season when he’s been the closest defender have led directly to goals which doesn’t help our error:goal ratio at all). But, Matip, despite correctly showing Sane the outside gets caught completely flat footed and it’s then game over because bloody Karius, sorry, Pre-Karius, doesn’t do what ALL keepers should do in that situation and that is cover your near post first and foremost. Nobody either tracking the runs of Aguero or Sterling into the box and both would’ve been open if Sane had decided to square the ball. City scored with a 7v4 against in the penalty box.

    Second Goal (scorer, Silva 84)
    Started off with Milner barging at Gundogan, committing and getting skinned. No need at all. An easy 1-2 follows, helped, again, by an extremely flat flooted Matip and then decides to simply observe proceedings from the edge of the 18. There is no urgency in that fella at all. Not saying that isn’t a good trait for a centre half but it seems once he’s beaten, well, it’s down to you fellas! Mane should also have continued his run and at least attempted to pick up Silva instead of adopting the Matip stance and become an observer. City scored with a 9v5 against in the penalty box.

    Third Goal (scorer Gundogan, 90)
    You knew once City got a second the odds were on that they’d get a third. Lovren ridiculously slid in on Sane at the edge of the box allowing him to easily skate past him and continue his dribble. Ball played to Aguero and Gomez correctly showed him the outside but both he and Mane then allowed Aguero and easy dink cross in the box to Gundogan who had 3 covering him. Lovren attempted a two inch leap, missed the ball allowing the receiver to bring it down and smash it past a Karius. City scored with a 10v4 against in the penalty box.

    So combined City scored three goals with a combined 26:13 against. Liverpool had 50% more players in that goal scoring moment but still conceded.

    Now, how many times have we seen this before. Van Dijk will help our defending in the 18, no question, but can we rely on Matip or Lovren being an able centre back partner for him? I just don’t know. Matip keeps getting his feet wrong and Lovren keeps playing like a drunk. Would not surprise me in the least if Jurgen buys another top centre back along with a replacement for Karius and Mignolet.

    4-1 up and an unnecessary ending and agree with Davinci completely in that another 5 minutes it would have ended 4-4.

    Too much ball watching, too much flat footed-ness (especially from Karius who has the most piss poor loaded trigger muscle stance I’ve seen) and not enough discipline to see a game out without conceding but we are third and we all wanted to see this at the end of the City game so I’ll shut up (for now) and enjoy another crazy chapter in this team’s adventure tale.

    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2018/1/14/b978ddcd-08b2-482a-9f53-3d31dd710925.jpg

    #1584476
    GellerBing
    GellerBing
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    Very good analysis and dissection Rob. The more I watch Matip this season the less I am convinced of him tbh. He has escaped many criticism this season, but many forget he is still part of the defense that shipped in so many goals. Like you said he is very passive, I would reserve further judgement on Matip until we see the Matip-VVD partnership. If his form doesn’t improve I certainly don’t mind an upgrade over him.

    One thing is for certain, we need a keeper in the summer, or one in this window if we can get one.

    #1584497
    Red Herring
    Red Herring
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    Sorry to be correcting you on your maths, Rob, but “Liverpool had 100% (not 50%) more players in that goal scoring moment but still conceded”; but that only goes to strengthen the point you were making.

    #1584506
    Rob Fort Worth TX
    Rob Fort Worth TX
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    • :

    Thanks Red, had to re-sit my Maths which, evidently, explains a lot!

    #1584508

    redsforever
    Participant
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    Gomez committed 2 mistakes for the 1st goal. First he misjudged the long ball to Sane.

    When sane went past him, he had the oppotunity to recover because Sane had to slow down when matip was in front of sane. Gomez should and couldve close down/tackle/intercept sane from the side while matip was in front of sane. Instead gomez jogged past sane and stood nxt to matip giving sane the time and space to shoot. Im still not convinced by gomez.

    #1584512
    Bob-Notts
    Bob-Notts
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    In that game Gomez offers Sane one or two opportunities. When you think about Sane’s quality that’s pretty good going. So yes does he makes mistakes, yes like any young player but does he looked composed most games yes and does he get beaten very often (considering) he’s a cb – no.

    #1584520

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    Let’s keep in mind when that cross field ball sailed over Gomez head and arrived at Sane, he was wide in the left only a few feet from the side line.
    In other words Sane had a tremendous amount of work to do in order to get a shot off on target nevermind score.
    Not only did it beat Karius at the near post, it went completely thru his hands.
    City had 4 shots on target and scored 3. That’s not an unusual stat for when teams score again st them. It’s rarely takes many shots on target for us to concede.
    We need our keepers to save more, even just save the ones they’re meant to save nevermind the world class saves.

    #1584528

    Big_Balls
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    • :

    When we score, the focus is on the brilliance of movement, dribbling or shooting. When the opposition score we focus on who was at fault. Not saying they were unavoidable but sometimes we can be a bit harsh on our players. Sane is quaility and has been doing this to allot of defenders all season, so will give Gomez a free pass. Second goal was just a non event by the whole defence and the third another sloppy effort. But as mentioned before, I can’t recall the last goal saving momnent by either Karius or Migs. A decent keeper and it would of been different scoreline

    #1584530
    nediarb2
    nediarb2
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    • :

    Good points, especially about the goalkeeping. Sane was pushed wide and should not have been able to score from that angle. Overall though, isn’t it the price we pay for having the type of players who score four? As is often mentioned we don’t really have a defensive midfielder. Players like Mane are always going to leave gaps at the back. We are set up to attack and that’s why we play the way we do, both positively and negatively. I hope VVD will improve the defence, but on the whole I’m happy with our style. I prefer that than the dour rubbish Mourinho produces.

    #1584537

    redsforever
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    Bob i dont think we’re being too harsh on our players. We’ve been terrible defensively. We conceded so many goals. Thats not being critical thats a fact. We like to talk about it because we’re fans and we want the team to improve and/or buy better players so we might win some trophies.

    As for goalkeepers, we need a new one this summer.

    #1584538

    redsforever
    Participant
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    Sorry bob i was replying to big balls not you 😃

    #1584544

    Sean the sailor
    Participant
    • :

    Bob but Gomez is costing goals now. He lets people in behind him far to often. He is still very young and I think he’s been excellent this season. Lanzini st West Ham, Sanchez, sane and burnley.

    Cut them mistakes out and he be top class in the future. Plenty of time on his side.

    We need another centre back in my opinion. Lovren is playing better but always has a mistake in him. Matip should have done better for the 1st goal

    We lost control when van went off. Milner just couldn’t get going. We badly need a new keeper. I’d be quite concerned if vvd was playing and we conceded the last two goals. Great win.

    #1584562
    Razor
    Razor
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    • :

    It was undoubtedly poor from Gomez. He definitely needs to work on his awareness of players around him, a sign he isn’t a natural CB. That said Clyne has been guilty of the same offence on several occasions but always gets off the hook. Gomez also has a better all round game and has more time on his side. Of the 2 I’d still pick Gomez.

    #1584570
    Razor
    Razor
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    As for the other 2 goals.

    From tactical analysis done for this game as shown by the link, we can see that Klopp employed a collective press. That was completely ruined the moment Milner replaced Can. His lack of mobility gave City the space to start playing again.

    For the 2nd goal Milner presses Gundogan on the ball and gets skinned alive because he’s so slow. This leaves a GAP behind him and Lovren panics when Aguero is unmarked in that space. He steps up to deal with that and gets taken out by the 1-2. Matip gets the block on the initial shot but Robertson, now having to come inside to cover Lovren leaves his man unmarked at the far post. Collective errors which doesn’t happen if Milner deals with the initial situation.

    #1584579
    Razor
    Razor
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    • :

    For the 3rd goal, Milner vacates his position in central midfield and for some strange reason takes up a position at CB when he should have been the player pressing the ball. Again Lovren seeing the gaps steps up to deal with the player on the ball and gets beaten. Milner who was in the box the whole time leaves Gundogan completely unmarked the entirety of the move which makes you wonder what he was doing the whole time other than ball watching. Lovren sees the unmarked man, panics, tries to rush back into position, loses his balance and is unable to make the jump to deal with the cross leaving Gundogan free for the tap in.

    Milner is absolute rubbish and he’s been leaving gaps in midfield the entire season just like this. It’s the same for Henderson. The defenders can’t cover the spaces and get blamed for errors committed when they’re put into these situations. This is what Klopp means when he says the errors in the team are not just the cause of 1 player. If we had a specialist DM we’ll definitely stop conceding these kinds of goals. I won’t go as far as to say the errors will be completely eliminated because the individual errors are still there but it would help our defending a lot if neither Milner Nor Henderson are allowed near the pitch.

    #1584597

    gingerlfc
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    • :

    We’ve conceded 28 goals this season.
    Of those 28, 16 are against other top 6 opposition.
    We’ve kept 10 clean sheets and are now unbeaten in 18.
    While there are definate improvements to be made to the defence we aren’t as bad as some people like to make out.
    Our style of play leaves more open at times but I do think we must get a better goal keeper and individual mistakes must be cut out/down.
    I think we’d see a drastic change in goals conceded if we did that.

    #1584617
    AK
    AK
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    • :

    Matip gets away with allot for two main reason firstly Lovren keeps the spotlight on himself secondly Matip was a free transfer so people are generally less critical. I think we need to find a short term partner for VVD in the summer.

    #1584634
    Razor
    Razor
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    • :

    @ak. I think the reason Matip gets a free pass is because he was a pillar of strength in a weak defence last season. I think someone mentioned a while back that he gets off easy because he can play it out stylishly from the back. I think that’s where the issue is. He looks composed in a side that doesn’t know the meaning of the word and let’s face it next to Lovren anyone would look good. For me he’s just off form because he was brilliant last year and has been brilliant for Schalke for many years prior. GK and CM are the main areas we need to address right now because the current options just aren’t good enough. That said I still think we should get a new GK coach for the short term and see how that works out.

    #1584717
    Bob-Notts
    Bob-Notts
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    Sean but look at the quality of the players you mention. He isn’t going to be infallible at that age and as said above the goal keeper should have made a routine save.

    #1584738

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    Part of a keepers job is to cover for his defenders when they make a small lapse of judgement. Our keepers rarely ever do that. It never takes many shots on target for the opposition to score a goal.
    Just save the shots they’re meant to save and we’d be much better off.

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