Should the West strike in Syria……that is the question

This topic contains 20 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by theMartial Art theMartial Art 5 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #1622695
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    So another alleged chemical attack in Syria, powerful rhetoric from the Trump administration and even more powerful coming back from Russia.

    Trumps stupidly set a deadline and would hate to look weak, but the russians actually stating the would shoot down airplanes or boats or if a russian soldier died basically attack US forces…..

    1st question

    Should anything be done by the West if so what?

    2nd, if the US do strike do we really think the Russians would attack them?

    #1622708
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    What is there of any importance to bomb? Military sites like airfields will have Russian personnel & equipment there. After the last missile strike the russians installed anti-missile systems. Imagine the embarassment is Trumps “smart” missiles were shot down.

    The fact they have not already launched missiles is no doubt because none of Trumps military advisors are in favour. Trump is doing what he always does, play to his base with bravado and insults.

    Personally I am sceptical Assad is behind a chemical attack. It seems so amateur. A few cannisters falling on building(s) in a Damascus suburb full of men, women, children. Why? It would be easy to send troops in. Isn’t there a risk of friendlies being affected. Russia would have had to have OKed it. Why?

    More likely is some rogue element in Assads forces or an opponent doing a false flag operation to make it more diffficult. The US and west should push for an investigation before acting.

    And why the outrage. How many have died from conventional warfare in Syria and other hotspots. Where the outrage in Africa over genocide. How about the US using napalm on civilians or sending in their drones to weddings. How about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children who died through sanctions.

    The west and the world needs to come up with a modern form of Geneva Convention detailing what’s allowed, what isn’t and what third party nations are obligated to do so there is a consistent approach to interventions and reprisals.

    #1622715
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    It does seem a strange “attack” there seems to be a wider plan in place here between Russia and the West including the “assasination attempt” on uk soil.

    IF the US do strike in someway this could escalate but just how far? seems quite dangerous at the moment that this proxy war becomes a real war…..

    #1622730
    Al The Gooner
    Al The Gooner
    Participant
    • :

    Never say never but it’s the umpteenth proxy war between these two and the likelihood of actual war between them is unlikely as they both know what the end result will be, which is exactly why they fight these proxy wars in the first place – the best way to have a pissing contest.

    I suspect Assad very much did order the attack. He has a fair bit of previous for this kind of thing. These are not rational people. As Saddam did during the Gulf War, when he was sending missiles over to Israel, it’s a desperate attempt by a desperate man to escalate a crisis. We’ve seen it a million times before and I have little doubt that the US will take action and I have little doubt that Russia will shake their head and wag their finger, but neither Russia or the US really want to go head-to-head, even taking into account the two scary men running the show.

    PS Steveo, I think the headline to this thread is a bit frivolous mate. A I know you didn’t mean it that way but actual people will die when the reprisals go ahead.

    #1622733
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    I’m sure that if Trump launched missiles and if Russia had the anti-missile systems in place to shoot them down, then they would do so. The ball would then be back in Trumps court as to how to respond to Russia.

    And if Putin does have Trumps pee pee tapes ???

    btw – do you believe there are pee tapes or that Trump did what Christopher Steele reported he may have done.

    #1622734
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    Al, fair call mate and yes you are right, we dont often think enough of the end result of such things….

    #1622741
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    Al – But if Trump and his missiles are as smart as they claim, would not the missiles only kill the bad guys?

    You lost me on how it benefits Assad to escalate the situation by inviting US retaliation. I’d have thought best move would be to let USA withdraw and let Russia zap his enemies while he rebuilds his forces and position.

    And, I’m never happy with the idea that the dictator is always some brainless moron. To get to be dictator you have to be a smart cookie, as Trump said of Kim Jung, and even more so to stay in power for so long. I imagine Assad would not be able to make any major move without the OK from the Kremlin.

    Mind you, Putin is devious enough to want USA embroiled in a foreign conflict and cause rifts between factions in Washington.

    #1622776
    Al The Gooner
    Al The Gooner
    Participant
    • :

    You’re right Mac, Assad isn’t stupid and I haven’t heard anyone suggest otherwise. What he is, is desperate. Like all dictators before him, he will do anything and everything he can to hold on to any power he can.

    As I said, neither the US or Russia are likely to want to go head-to-head, because no one will win that one but, while they’re posturing, the focus is off Assad. In addition to that, he does like to gas his enemies, especially when they challenge his power. He won’t give a shit about reprisals from the West. His country is already a bombsite but he’s stashed safely away. It’s just about prolonging his power and nothing more.

    From Assad’s point of view, it’s a no-lose situation.

    #1623524
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    Well, so much for the Russian anti-missile systems.

    #1623541

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    Fraught with danger and the poor Syrian people will be the losers but Chemical weapons are evil and nobody should be able to use them with impunity.

    I would suggest only military targets are chosen but the danger there is the Russian military presence and this developing into something even worse. There are no easy answers unfortunately.

    #1623555
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    The moral outrage over chemical weapons seems somewhat hypocritical to me. Up until the end of the millenium the USA had the largest arsenal of chemical weapons. The US along with UK were more than happy to sell Saddam Anthrax and chemical weapons materials & technology.

    Death is death no matter how it comes. If the west were truly concerned it should look at its nuclear arsenals, its military interventions and sponsorship of conflicts along with its relative lack of action concerning starvation, poverty, sickness and wars. What did it do in Africa, what is it doing about Myanmar ethnic cleansing of the Rohingya.

    #1623979
    theMartial Art
    theMartial Art
    Spectator
    • :

    Lots of music as usual every time there is a stance against a violation of world standards. BBC escalated the music volume by having Corbyn on the Marr show so he could immediately promoted his pacifist and play the same old record about tea and sandwiches. He must have begged the BBC for that spot. We can all argue the pros and cons as much as like but what is the most disturbing is we have many who object to doing the right thing in case it upsets Russia. Events over the last few years and Putin’s stranglehold on Russia is his desire to get back to an old style Soveiet Empire. We have seen his threatening behaviour in the Ukraine, Georgia, Estonia, Belarus, Norway and even his gas throat hold on Germany. At same time he has islands dispute with Japan. Draw your own conclusions but staying cowed and frightened of Putin is not the best way forward.

    #1624150

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    All a bit late now anyway it’s over now and Trump has confirmed providing Chemical weapons aren’t used again that’s it.

    What occurs from here will be important the attack from the USA,France and the UK was military focused on identified Chemical weapons targets.

    If it broadens out from there and Russia get silly and or Iran get silly millions will die and the world as we know it will be destroyed and nobody will be a winner we can only hope for the future of mankind common sense prevails.

    You can only imagine the outcome for this country in these troubled times if Corbyn was Prime Minister appease appease appease!

    #1624176
    D1rtyH4rry
    D1rtyH4rry
    Participant
    • :

    I used to work with a Syrian doctor, and am good friends with his wife who is also a nurse. They have made the point that due to the airsrikes millions of Syrians are able to sleep peacefully for the time being, and given that I know they have family on the ground in Syria, I am happy to take their word for it, despite it going against my better nature.

    #1624216
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    I suspect your syrian friends are opponents of Assad who welcome any attack on him and deeper western intervention in the conflict in order to oust Assad similar to how they enabled the Libyan rebels oust Gadafi.

    IF its true they can now sleep peacefully at night, does that mean its safe for all the refugees to return home? Your syrian friends would doubtless argue their family should be allowed to come to the UK because their lives are in danger in Syria.

    Given Trump telegraphed the strikes, the syrians have doubtless moved the chemical weapons elsewhere and if not, I’m sure the russians would supply them with more. And even if not, is death from bullets and bombs any the better.

    The strikes probably caused little damage to Assad, its the west barking not biting.

    #1624230
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    well the “allies” thought long and hard and have now done a “taergeted” strike so will there be a ruskie response?

    #1624249
    Al The Gooner
    Al The Gooner
    Participant
    • :

    Remains to be seen but I think (hope) everyone has had their say now. Assad has sent his message to his opponents, that he can always get to them. The US & co have sent the message that “it won’t be tolerated” and Russia have said “Grrrr, that really makes us mad”.

    #1624335
    D1rtyH4rry
    D1rtyH4rry
    Participant
    • :

    Mac – One of his brothers is a surgeon and has opted to stay behind in Syria. They are passionately anti Assad, and I see your point, but rather than me try and take some sort of moral high ground with them, I am accepting they have people on the ground in what is a horrendous situation, and are probably better informed than I am. They aren’t political activists, just people worried about their family.

    #1624521
    theMartial Art
    theMartial Art
    Spectator
    • :

    @steveosnakeeye“…. so will there be a ruskie response?”

    Russia is hawkish, but their military isn’t as good as it’s made out to be. Their equipment is crappy, corruption is widespread, most personnel are conscripts who don’t want to be there, and the morale is in shambles because they have one of the worst hazing cultures in the world. It still wouldn’t be an easy fight, but they’re not capable of winning it.

    #1624539
    Wonderfuel Gas
    Wonderfuel Gas
    Participant
    • :

    Who could Russia bomb in retaliation anyway? It’s not like America has any allies in the Middle East anyway.

    Oh…

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