Weekend footy – league/FA Cup and Barca v Real Madrid

This topic contains 150 replies, has 29 voices, and was last updated by Amz Amz 6 years, 11 months ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 121 through 140 (of 151 total)
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  • #1469666
    Johnny Utah
    Johnny Utah
    Participant
    • :

    “Henry and zidane were amazing dribblers. Messi is a better dribbler than ronaldo as well.” Agreed

    Agreed Steveo, technical ability and a level of co-ordination above that of others, height is nothing to do with it.

    Ginola 6ft 1
    Cantona 6ft 2
    Bergkamp 6ft

    #1469688

    CM
    Participant
    • :

    I never said Henry was not a amazing dribbler and never said Messi was not a better dribbler than Ronaldo. Not sure why you would make shit up yourself Jay.

    Ever wonder why Cruyff, Messi and Best were brilliant at what they did in their late teens and why Christiano, Henry and Zidane did not kick on and flourish until their 20s?

    Ronaldo, along with Henry and Zidane had to put in a lot of work to get to the level they have, like people have said Messi was just a natural at it. Ronaldo was known as a one trick pony with poor ball control when dribbling in his late teens, easily lost possession and his decision making was terrible, that was some of Messi’s best attributes when he 1st came on to the scene.

    Why not compare what Messi, Maradonna, Pele, Cruyff(under 6 foot) and what level they were at in comparison to Zidane, Ronaldo and Henry(over 6ft) when they 1st burst on to the scene. Who had to work the hardest to get to the level they did and who had it naturally?

    That is why Ronaldo will go down at one of the greatest ever alongside the likes of Maradonna, Messi and Pele. He has consistently performed for years due to hard work, adapted to numerous styles of play and leagues. Like I said Messi under Martino, was not the Messi you saw under Pep or Enrique, both deployed a similar style of possession football. Ronaldo has performed under Ferguson, Pelegrini, Jose, Ancelotti and Zidane who deploy different styles.

    #1469691

    mufc
    Participant
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    Can’t be bothered with a new thread, big mid-week games. Huge game for Chelsea v Southampton tonight.

    #1469718
    Al The Gooner
    Al The Gooner
    Participant
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    Cruyff was 5’11 – yes, under 6ft but hardly short and a lot closer in height to Ronaldo than Messi.

    #1469720

    CM
    Participant
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    Cruyff was 5ft 9, wiki have got it wrong, 1.8m= 5ft 9

    #1469732
    number_seven
    number_seven
    Participant
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    For me, Messi surpasses Ronaldo if I have to choose in terms of natural talent. With the right combination of an incredible amount of hard work, an unrivalled hunger to reach the top, an awful lot of practice and some luck, I think there are other people on this planet who could reach Ronaldo’s level of ability whereas I think someone like Messi is, similarly to Usain Bolt in athletics, just beyond a level an ordinary person can reach.

    I do get where CM is coming from though in the sense that Ronaldo is a player you could drop into any team and he’d be incredible whereas I think Messi needs everything to be built around him to play at the level we all know he can. In that sense, he’s a little like Guardiola I think. If I was given a blank chequebook to build an entire team and could only have one or the other, I’d buy Messi and build the entire team around his strengths. If I was given the option of only signing one of them and nobody else, I’d go for Ronaldo every single time.

    So, Messi the more gifted for me but I’d only opt for him over Ronaldo if I had the ability to create a team in which he would thrive.

    #1469750

    CM
    Participant
    • :

    Nicely put Chris.

    That is the reason why I opt for Ronaldo. He has proven to embrace most styles of play and adapt to them. Messi has yet to prove that and has only done well under one system and that is the Barcelona way. Anything else i.e. Martino and Argentina, he has not lived up to the same level he set under Tika take possession football. I understand why people would say Messi too, obviously he is just brilliant to watch.

    #1469793
    Al The Gooner
    Al The Gooner
    Participant
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    CM, sorry mate but unless you’ve stood next to Cruyff, I’m not sure how you know that Wiki have it wrong, or that whichever site you looked at has it right.

    Either way, I think it’s been established that there are some pretty good 6 foot plus players, who can skip passed defenders, other than Ronaldo.

    #1469814

    mufc
    Participant
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    Ronaldo=hard work.
    Messi=Roids.

    #1469827

    CM
    Participant
    • :

    Al, I typed 1.80m in feet in Google and it came back with 5ft 9, that was before you mentioned Cryuffs height and the reason why I used him as an example 😛

    My overall point was players under 6ft seem to to be more naturally gifted technically when they burst on to scene in comparison to players like Ronaldo, Henry, Zidane who have to work hard in order to get to the heights they got to. We all saw what Messi could do at 17 and what he would become, we did not see that with Ronaldo, Zidane and Henry at a similar age. That is why I rate Ronaldo highly and why I believe he should be on par with the likes of Messi, Maradona and Pele when discussing all time greats. He has reached their heights and stayed consistent for years.

    #1469865
    foxyfoxes
    foxyfoxes
    Participant
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    I’ve never been that enamoured about Messi. Great player but for me not one of the greats. I don’t think he has changed or improved much as the years have gone on. If you were to watch a highlights package of his goals or skills, you will essentially see the same goal or the same skill repeated a million times. Maradona on the other hand, could do everything Messi can do now, plus he had the entertainment flair of Ronaldinho, the vision and deft of touch of Zidane, the tenacity of … well Maradona. He played in an age when players like him were not protected and yet he always rode the challenges and bounced back up. Messi plays in an age when he is a protected species. Maradona would dream to play in this day and age.

    On the topic of the other players listed. Henry was not a great dribbler, just like Bale is not. What they are is extremely fast and know when and how to move the ball and use their pace

    #1469880

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
    • :

    Foxyfoxes, we got to understand that Maradona was sponsored by cocaine, Messi is supplemented with growth hormones. Maradona wins hands down for tenacity…

    #1469895
    Jay belfast
    Jay belfast
    Participant
    • :

    Just the biggest pile of shit ever!

    Messi was gifted and had an advantage over ronaldo somehow because he was smaller?! Jesus listen to yourself! The average height of a professional footballer is nearly 6ft if anything it is and was a major obstacle for messi to be as short as he was. What percentage of professional footballers worldwide are under 5 ft 7? How many people with growth defects become professional athletes?! Yeah messi was handed it all on a platter.

    Then there’s all this “natural” talent bullshit that tries to portray that one day messi woke up and was simply amazing without any practice simply because he was smaller whereas ronaldo had to put in so much hard graft to become the player he was and to overcome this huge disadvantage of being tall. Weird then that there are very, very few players at under 5ft7, you think with this roll out of bed natural dribbling ability that they can do with their eyes closed that they would walk into teams.

    Then there’s the whole team being built around him bullshit. Real madrid, utd and portugal werent built around ronaldo at his peak?! No we all just imagined that. There’s a reason these teams where built around these guys.

    Then there was messi’s incredibly poor season under martino that he still scored nearly a goal a game (no mention of his injuries that year either) and his incredibly poor record for Argentina that pretty much matches ronaldo’s Portugese goal ratio.

    If we strip out all the nonsense about height, natural ability, having teams fitted round them etc etc it’s just opiniom and in my opinion messi is better and think it’s fair to say the majority of people agree. I think he’s better because he creates more, has more influence on the pitch, is more of a team player, is better to watch, is the more intelligent of the two etc.

    I also think Messi is better because ronaldo is naturally faster than messi so messi had to work harder throughout his life to be able to overcome this disadvantage that ronaldo was born with incredible speed…..oh wait I just used complete bullshit reasoning too.

    #1469900

    CM
    Participant
    • :

    Jay-

    Apologies Jay, I am sorry for being so wrong and getting so many things wrong in regards to this. We cannot state facts about most of the best flair players i.e. Ribery, Robben, Sanchez Maradona, Cruyff, Neymar, Giggs, Hazard and many more are under the average footballing height of 6foot. We cannot state facts that some of these players burst on the scene at a young age and were naturally gifted by easily fitting in to the first team, whilst the likes of Zidane was being rejected by Blackburn because they had Tim Sherwood and Henry was struggling in Italy and Ronaldo was labelled a one trick overrated pony at similar ages.

    I am sure when Messi woke up being a superstar, Ronaldo was picking his nose and miraculously was behind Messi if you compare ages when they burst on to scene. Also like to apologise that when Messi scored a hattick at 18 against Real Madrid and was being praised by the press, Ronaldo at 18 was playing in a side that got knocked out of the CL and was being ridiculed by the press. I was so incorrect Jay.

    I also like to apologise for getting the following wrong, people did not complain about Martino style and they did not mention how it hindered Barcelona. He only just walked out because things were working perfectly and Messi goal tally went back up to the same ratio as it did under Pep when Tito came around. Of course Ronaldo did not play under numerous managed with different styles of play and he did not adapt to these styles. Apologies, I made that up, Ferguson, Jose, Pellegrini, Carlo have never managed Ronaldo. So we cannot use that as a way to praise Ronaldo.

    Most importantly, I like to apologise because we cannot have a opinion that is different to yours. End of the day our opinion is bullshit when it does not match up to yours because we all have to agree that Messi is amazing and Ronaldo is not. Apologies Jay, I agree nobody is allowed to like Ronaldo because you prefer Messi over him 🙂

    #1469918
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    CM its not about not having a differing opinion from Jay its about the BS reason used to justify those reasons! I think Jay sums it up perfectly.

    no one says you cant prefer Ronaldo in fact i think as a Yootd fan its obligatory

    #1469919

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder”

    Always! 🙂

    #1469922

    CM
    Participant
    • :

    Steve-

    That is where things are getting muddled here. My response was to the special one who said Messi was a natural and Ronaldo worked hard to get to where he did. Someone, also mentioned Messi should not be doing what he is doing because of his size. I then mentioned players who are just as taller as Messi or slightly taller who have done well, but obviously not at Messi’s level.

    I did not use that as an excuse to justify my reason, that was more of a underlying debate about the 2 and how players in similar height and stature have developed.

    I gave my reason by saying Ronaldo would be more easier to fit in to a system out of the 2 and prefer to watch Ronaldo.

    It seems like Jay is reeling from a debate from a different thread because his of tone language is no different to how that ended up. Never mind. I cannot stop that.

    #1469925
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    PML CM now your just being silly but Jay is a big boy so i shall let him answer that matey lol

    #1469942
    Jay belfast
    Jay belfast
    Participant
    • :

    No CM not reeling from a debate on a different thread just fed up with your nonsense. There is plenty of valid arguements why ronaldo is better than messi but height is not one of them.

    Height is completely irrelvant when weighing up who is the best player. They are either better or they are not. Whatever supposed advantages or disadvantages players have experienced is irrelvant.

    Even if you do want to take height into it (which again we shouldn’t be) it is just as valid to say being smaller is more of a disadvantage than being taller.

    #1469999
    Al The Gooner
    Al The Gooner
    Participant
    • :

    CM, Google’s measurement converter is limited – it can only read decimal, so what you thought was 5ft 9in is actually 5.9 feet. 0.9 of a foot is roughly 11 inches. Try a proper converter and you’ll see what I mean.

    Foxy – Henry wasn’t a great dribbler??? Do you mean Thierry??? Or Lenny???

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