Why do United always do this to their strikers?

This topic contains 17 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by roygbiv roygbiv 7 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 18 posts - 1 through 18 (of 18 total)
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  • #1272225

    CM
    Participant
    • :

    Welbeck has always played up top in his career, yet Ferguson because of his pace shifted him out wide.

    Martial starts well up top, then Mourinho shifts him out wide to accommodate the out of date Rooney.

    Rashford is a striker and has played number 10 a few times, Mourinho plays him out wide to accommodate Zlatan.

    #1272231
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    united are not the only ones to be fair we do it a lot as do many others, bit odd when you look at the success that pacey strikers have had in the PL like Henry and Le Sulk among others….back in the day it was more about finishers with the pace on the wings and cutting in

    #1272276

    CM
    Participant
    • :

    Sorry in regards to Martial, I meant Van Gaal.

    #1272294
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    I admit for me I think martial was your perfect front man and didn’t like him going to you, I see the makings of an henry style player if used as such and we know what that can do in the PL…same for rashford really so I for one am glad your not playing them as would benefit!

    #1272303

    CM
    Participant
    • :

    steveo- I believe it just takes away what they potentiality could become. Playing Rashford out wide could confuse him when he is asked to play up top. Same with Martial.

    #1272312

    happyhurling
    Participant
    • :

    There’s been talk about players, even strikers, needing to know how to play in a couple of different positions. So, if Martial and Rashford can play across the front attacking positions, it is better for their development. Of course there is an argument to say that’s a load of bollocks and just play players in the positions they’re most effective in!

    #1272315
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    I can see the interchanging of the front 3, but when you have that much pace that defenders hate then play to that strength or if you have an immobile front man u need pacey wingers with a good cross on them!

    sometimes I think modern managers over complicate things…

    #1272327

    CM
    Participant
    • :

    Play Martial up top with Rashford behind or vice versa. Both play outwide because of their work rate, so playing them through the middle should not be a problem if the manager is worried they will not track back.

    #1272504

    yorkshireman200
    Participant
    • :

    Afraid I don’t see Martial as a central striker. In the few games he played central he was poor imo. He can’t holdup the ball and isn’t very good with his back to goal. I think his career will be coming in from wide positions and going past players. I see Rashford as being the central striker hopefully from next season. Pity Depay hasn’t got the brains or attitude to be the other wide player.

    #1272540
    MMI
    MMI
    Participant
    • :

    In terms of holding up play, Zlatan is not fairing any better. In fact, at the moment he is frustrating to watch.

    #1272555

    CM
    Participant
    • :

    Yorkshireman-

    Holding the ball strikers is a outdated system. How many top teams play strikers who can hold the ball and pass?

    Martial was quality when he started his career at United and played up top. People were comparing him being the next Henry. Then he was pushed out wide and when he was asked to play through the middle afterwards, he did not look the same. Last thing I want is for to become another Welbeck.

    #1273665
    redblood
    redblood
    Participant
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    Welcome back CM pal.

    #1276422
    CR
    CR
    Participant
    • :

    I agree with yorkshireman200. I don’t recall Martial ever being that good centrally. Even his first ever goal for us against Liverpool was cutting in from the wing, wasn’t it?

    Other than that, I agree with the OP. There is a culture of playing too many players out of position for too long. I’ve been saying for a long time that Rashford isn’t a striker. It’s plainly obvious he isn’t. He should alternate with Ibra to be our 9. We could also try them together up top in a 4-3-1-2 formation. That is something that I really could see working, actually.

    After dropping Rooney and starting Herrera, hopefully trying Mkhitaryan out as the RW will be JMs next step in his search for our best team. Then Rashford will be moved centrally, as Martial will hopefully start going at LW again.

    #1290999
    foxyfoxes
    foxyfoxes
    Participant
    • :

    None of those players are genuine no.9s though. For me, what allowed Henry to become a good striker was because he did his apprenticeship on the wing. Until he came to Arsenal he was a winger. Playing out wide helps players understand what is needed from a 9. When a winger has his head up looking to deliver a ball into a dangerous area and the striker isn’t there they know what is expected of a good striker and so for Henry he knew where he needed to be when playing centrally. For me, the last true 9s to have played in the premier league were Fowler and Ferdinand. Everyone since has tended to be goal scoring mobile forwards. Even Shearer wasn’t your stereotypical 9. The modern fascination with a front three as part of a 443 tends to mean they are playing quite centrally anyway with fullbacks expected to provide as the old wingers used to in the 442 setup. good cohesive front 3s will score no matter where in the front 3 they are. Suarez scored 30+ goals for Pool in the wider of 3 front 3, yet he is probably the most natural finisher in the game at the moment. When you have an abundance of pace it is almost wasted playing the centre forward position, unless you are going to play the long ball a la Vardy.

    #1291011

    united80
    Participant
    • :

    @mmi, regarding Ibra, he is holding up man utd, not the ball so much.

    We don’t seem to have a natural finisher at OT anymore so we need to rely upon wing backs, however, our wing backs are Shaw – out of shape and fitness lacking at the moment and Valencia – can’t attack the box and struggles to beat the first man. We need the likes of Mikhi, Martial, Rashford and maybe even Memphis running across the opposition line of defence and attacking the box.

    I honestly think we could become a more dangerous attacking force without Rooney or Zlat.

    #1291119

    happyhurling
    Participant
    • :

    I think Rooney would be finishing these chances better than Zlatan at the moment. Before the season started Mourinho said Zlatan only offers a threat when we are dictating the play, overloading the box and creating chance after chance. But we’ve not been playing like that in a lot of games so I’m at a loss to explain why he’s being picked every week, possibly because of his “winning mentality” more than anything else. Rooney’s not as good in the air obviously but he wouldn’t have missed the one on one against Stoke.

    #1293108

    busby_way
    Participant
    • :

    United have moved so far away from what made them effective it is unbelievable. Energy, pace and intensity in the final third is what won us all those trophies. One may notice that we never had a key starting attacker, especially striker over the age of 30 with the exception of Sheringham and even he was not entirely regular. RVP was bought at the tail end of his twenties.

    Pacy, energetic front men and genuine wingers is what has always been needed. Lingard is an English Ji Sung Park. For me, we should be playing, Rashford up front, Martial on one wing, Mata in the hole, Mkhitarian on the other wing, Pogba and, most importantly Michael Carrick to hold it all together in a deep role. Of course, Carrick is getting on so we need to find a genuine defensive mid and right back in the next window if at all possible.

    #1293159
    roygbiv
    roygbiv
    Participant
    • :

    There are certain benefits of playing young strikers out wide at the start of their careers. They get gametime and are able to grow without the immense pressure of being the “main man” when they’re still developing. The same goes for defense; young, upcoming centre backs often start at fullback and young midfielders are often played wider. This is because you want a certain amount of experience through the spine of your team; someone to guide the youngsters while they grow.

    However, When those experienced players aren’t doing that or not performing it all becomes a bit redundant. It doesn’t benefit the team or the youngsters who only lose confidence as a result.

    Zlatan looked like an interesting short time idea and it started well enough. At the moment his presence, like Rooney’s is more of an hindrance and Mourinho must realize the damage it is doing to Martial and Rashford. Zlatan may well have a few drops left on the tank that’ll be useful later in the season but right now, his constant inclusion in the team is simply unjustified.

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