Why England struggle in tournaments?

This topic contains 27 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by steveosnakeeye steveosnakeeye 7 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #1265991
    theMartial Art
    theMartial Art
    Spectator
    • :

    Makes me laugh when you consider it’s taken Rooney almost his entire career to finally overhaul Bobby Charlton’s record…. Neymar is almost past that mark at age 24……. That one little fact in itself gives us an idea as to why England will always struggle in top tournaments.

    England simply don’t have these sorts of players in their locker. It’s a harsh horrible and brutal fact, but a fact nonetheless. One day maybe possibly you’ll get clubs owned by people only interested in nurturing local youngsters….what am I talking about…..no chance…ever. England will never win a tournament, in fact, I’ll go so far as to say they’ll never even come close again. Not with billionaires snapping up English clubs like pigeons picking at breadcrumbs on the pavement. they want success….now…not in 10 years time when the lads are mature enough…..buy what you’ll need to win. I can’t be waiting around for kids to grow up.

    #1265994
    theMartial Art
    theMartial Art
    Spectator
    • :

    Does dropping Rooney make England national team great again? The last time England had a really good team which could compete with great teams is 1996. Venting all your anger and disappointment on one individual called Wayne Rooney will not help. More English clubs should again begin to produce talented youngsters, like Marcus Rashford and John Stones, then England will have a great team again. Rooney is not responsible for English clubs producing average players.

    #1266045
    suarezsteeth
    suarezsteeth
    Participant
    • :

    No he’s not responsible,but he should do the right thing,realise his best days are behind him,and retire,give someone else a chance,like Shearer,Lampard,Scholes,Gerrard etc did before him. But he says he won’t do that. So he’s going to be hanging around,still getting selected,still stinking the place out. He couldn’t even do it against Malta. He was crap.

    The whole England setup is a joke. The people at the FA don’t have a clue about football,they are all behind the times. The fact that they gave the job to the likes of McClaren,Keegan,Hodgson and Allardyce tells you that. It needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom. Get people in there who are ambitious,and are more in tune with the way football is now,with the way it’s changed. If they’re going to stick with an English/British manager,then you’re looking at the likes of Pardew,Howe,and Rodgers. Are they good enough? I don’t think so. Show some ambition. Go for the likes of Klinsmann,a name that excites. Bilic may be out of a job soon,what about him? They showed ambition with the likes of Capello and Eriksson,but then changed strategy completely,and started employing English has beens like Hodgson and Allardyce.

    As I said,it needs a complete overhaul,then maybe the England national team will see success in the future

    #1266144
    Dandy
    Dandy
    Participant
    • :

    English players don’t get the game time in the Premiership, the don’t get the chance to learn on the job, make mistakes, gain experience and bounce back. 20 years ago we were a better side than Spain, football changes very quickly and whilst right now England are incredibly poor and have been for 10 years we do have a footy mad nation and kids still love booting the ball around on a weekend and whilst that’s still happening we will produce a few decent kids. I still think the last world class player England produced was Michael Owen.

    #1266168
    Dandy
    Dandy
    Participant
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    Suarezteeth – Gonna pick you up on a few points.
    1) what has Klinnsman done as a manager to deserve the England job?
    2) Bilic is currently floundering at West Ham, why would he deserve the England job?
    2) Capello appointment was ambitious… and a failure. He had the players but achieved nothing.
    4) See above, but actually Sven was an even bigger failure with the amount of world class club players he had at his disposal. Rio, Cole, Terry, Neville, Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard and Owen and he did what ?? 2 quarter finals.

    #1266240
    killyboye
    killyboye
    Participant
    • :

    You all seem to be overlooking the main fact of the post, why do England struggle at major tournaments? A better way of looking at this is why do England tend to breeze through qualifying and then collapse at major tournaments?
    Mental fragility and the media, realistically a combination of the two.
    English, and indeed most players from the British Isles, are not coached in mental toughness. The ability to shake off a mistake and keep going, keep trying, try something new, screw it up but keep trying anyway. If something goes wrong, for the most part they can’t pick themselves up, shake it off and go again.
    Graham Henry the rugby coach, the only coach to win two World Cups, back to back, in rugby said that when the All-blacks adopted that approach it was a sea change in their game. Players started being coached in focusing on the now, only to be concerned with what was happening in front of their faces and not to be concerned with what had happened. They were coached to have a series of exercises, or switches, that they could use to refocus themselves if they thought they weren’t fully engaged or focusing on the match. The All-blacks are the pinnacle of world rugby, they are where every team wants to be, fluid, physical, aggressive, sublime to watch and mentally they are almost unshakable, most of their recent success stems from that ability to refocus mid-match and drag themselves back into games and win regardless of poor starts, stupid penalties or perceived bad refereeing.
    Another factor is that the pressure from the media is so immense that players in the England shirt have to be petrified going out onto the pitch. Knowing that every aspect of the game is going to picked over, scrutinised, over-analysed and that even the smallest mistake no matter how irrelevant is going to be blown across the back pages the next morning. What’s worse is that the media generally has low expectations in qualifying and then a few weeks before major tournaments the pressure is ramped up incredibly. Suddenly the players have gone from living in a reasonably large bubble, to living in the smallest, tiniest, cramped bubble imaginable, from having almost no pressure on them to having the weight of the world on their shoulders, because make no mistake, their world is the Premier League and England, outside of that they don’t have much, the cars, clothes and houses are just add-ons for the really driven players, a bonus.

    #1266270

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    I believe one of the problems, but this also faces other teams, is that we play teams that sit 10 men behind the ball for the whole of qualifying and then it is a totally different game in tournaments. Qualifying is no preparation for tournament football.

    #1266906
    Romansdirtypants
    Romansdirtypants
    Spectator
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    The martial skid mark…, get over yourself… England are shit. toilet. Pants, rubbish, guff, garbage, balls, crap, had one blip of success and then became shit. toilet. Pants, rubbish, guff, garbage, balls, crap. Do you really need it explained to you?

    #1266930
    number_seven
    number_seven
    Participant
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    ST, come on mate. You can’t seriously believe those players “gave up” their squad places and retired to give others a chance. I don’t believe any footballer ever has or ever will be that generous, nor should they. It always leaves a bad taste in my mouth when any player quits International football, hence why I’ll always have more respect for the likes of Beckham than I will for the likes of Scholes and Carragher (as much as they were both great players.)

    Beckham would still be out there now if he’d get selected and that’s what I want it to mean to them. Don’t get me wrong though. I actually agree his England career is coming to an end and he should not be starting games, certainly not until/if he regains some kind of form. I just think people should get off his back and turn their frustrations on the people who keep picking him when he’s out of form (which to be fair is no longer the case.)

    #1266936
    number_seven
    number_seven
    Participant
    • :

    BTW I’m talking about Rooney in that 2nd paragraph in case it wasn’t clear

    #1266975
    theMartial Art
    theMartial Art
    Spectator
    • :

    @S/T – I think your club allegiance clouds your judgment. Fifty years of hurt. Managers have come and gone, often cruelly. Generations of players have failed to deliver on their much-vaunted promises and you’re blaming Rooney for England’s failure??

    How about: (1) English players are technically inferior (or do we really think Henderson would start for Germany?). England just does not produce players with the skills taught on the continent and in South America. When has England produced a Pirlo, an Iniesta, much less a Messi, Neymar, Suarez or Ronaldo? (2) frequent apathy or arrogance (includes everybody: players, coaches, administrators, fans and media), and (3) poor, insipid, oudated tactics (English don’t excel in their own country, let alone abroad… Compare that to Spain, Italy and Holland).

    England probably won’t be winning anything significant any time soon. Anything can happen in a tournament, but there are so many teams that are not just better: but on a distinctly higher level. The English should be thankful of the 1966 title, and get on with it.

    #1266987
    theMartial Art
    theMartial Art
    Spectator
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    @romandirtypants – why are England so shit?? Did you start following football in 2003?

    #1266990

    metaxa
    Participant
    • :

    England underperform because we’ve all got used to it as have the players
    66 was so long ago that there’s no success to build on at all apart from a semi final in 90 and you can hardly call that success!
    The press destroy england and winning a cap now what does that mean? A bonus from your club team? The players earn so much more from club football and international breaks disrupt their momentum from their primary aim. The same old players get picked for the important games and the occasional form player gets to play a friendly. There is no sense of adventure in the England set up. It’s dull boring and ineffective. On a corporate level it would be a company that slowly went to bancruptsy.

    #1267002
    Dandy
    Dandy
    Participant
    • :

    England has produced dozens of technically excellent footballers, particularly midfielders and wingers Scholes, Hoddle, Waddle, Gazza, Charlton,Beckham but they’ve rarely been used correctly. Like I said 15 years ago Germany were a laughing stock, Spain were average. It’s all about peaks and troughs, England’s time will probably come again.

    #1267125

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
    • :

    You know what Warro, Rooney has been outstanding for England in the past, one of the few players to always be on his toes for England. He has played through injury and given blood and sweat for England but ultimately his club asks for more and he has given it in the past. Now he is a shadow of his former self after sacrificing himself for the qualifying rounds. Gerrard got the opportunity to late, he even had a decent World Cup as captain but he could not inspire England like Liverpool, in the short amount of time he got. Ferdinand was the wrong man at the wrong time, excellent captain material but at the time too eager to prove himself as the first black captain(respect non the less). He could not gather the lads together and neither could Terry, who just made a giant shit-storm. Great player and one of the most formidable defenders in recent history but you can´t lead a team on a international level with traits like that.
    The reason why England always slumps out is expectations, or what happens when they meet the expectations of fans like above. I can name some Liverpool fans but god knows you can identify them yourself, same goes for United fans and the Chelsky´s, the Gunners and the Spuds. Its only the smaller club fan that comes together and celebrates the national team. Of course there are exceptions but that is the going rule.
    Now you got an opportunity, Southgate has gone through every loop there is as a player and manager, he hates the Premierleague setup. Which is a giant plus for the national team, he got all the qualifications. Just like Lowe did at the time.
    Right now you got a captain that is all about team work, nothing else, he does not shoot for glory like Gerrard did, he causes no controversy like some have done, he is a sound professional that keeps proving his critics wrong and not a single poster here on Teamtalk does a topic to his honor, the only thing was discussion was from a troll Liverpool poster who hates his guts. If that´s the support England got, if that´s the support the players and captain got, its no wonder England fails at every given chance!

    #1267161
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
    • :

    England need to look at getting a quality manager in who’s style suits the league and players that he has at hand. it goes deeper than this of course but it would be a good start.

    The “Golden Generation” went completely wasted. I know it’s a popular view to say that the likes of Gerrard and Lampard weren’t as good as people said or they weren’t able to play together. They were both world class players and a world class attack minded manager would have gotten them working well together.

    England always have a weird compass regards expectations. It’s like an on/off switch, flicking from “we’re totally useless and won’t qualify” to “we can win the WC”. . there’s no middle-ground at all and it’s just strange.

    anyway meh. I cant stand international football, so maybe i shouldnt be commenting on it.

    too late

    #1267344
    foxyfoxes
    foxyfoxes
    Participant
    • :

    If that is your criteria as to how to win tournaments then I have to disagree. Thierry Henry won a WC, and Euro and featured in another WC final and still only scored 51. How many World Cups has Neymar won?
    Rooney has a better goals per game ratio than Thomas Muller and Thierry Henry, who both have major titles under their belts.

    England don’t win titles anymore simply because they never play as a team. They are a team of individuals, no better exemplified than the 06 WC. England had a team of quality individuals good enough to win the WC, they failed miserably because they couldn’t play together. Greece won a Euro, name me a world class player in that team? In fact name me a player full stop! International tournaments are cup knockout competitions and so you need a different mentality.

    The Euro 96 England team were slammed for their dentist chair pre tournament antics, but I’ll tell you what, it was the last time I saw England play with any character and determination. The passion is lost in the England camp, hence why I think we need an old fashioned English manager to inspire them. I think it is a shame BFS was not given a chance to see what he could do.

    #1267467
    shanksy
    shanksy
    Spectator
    • :

    How many players in the current England squad could play for Germany? None. No point naming one player. How many would get into the Spanish, French or Belgian squads? None. Not saying they are useless but as another poster has said I believe it’s a mental thing. There has to be a reason why England sail through qualification yet turn to shit in finals.

    #1270434
    theMartial Art
    theMartial Art
    Spectator
    • :

    Gary Neville thinks England had the right players, the right style, the right system… just not right result. Can this guy be anymore delusional? If England have the right players, coach, system, you will get the right results. An odd unlucky defeat maybe. But England have been consistently abysmal since Ronaldinho merked Seaman.

    I agree with shanksy. England aren’t good enough. Here’s a thought does anyone think the England team would win the premier league?

    #1270491
    Dandy
    Dandy
    Participant
    • :

    No of course they wouldn’t. I don’t know any England fan who rates the national side, we’re an average international side with average players.

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