Liverpool fans debate whether £26m Klopp signing deserves all the criticism

Oli Fisher
BOURNEMOUTH, ENGLAND - DECEMBER 17: Mohamed Salah of Liverpool celebrates with teammates Georginio Wijnaldum and Andy Robertson after scoring his sides third goal during the Premier League match between AFC Bournemouth and Liverpool at Vitality Stadium on December 17, 2017 in Bournemouth, England. (Photo by Catherine Ivill/Getty Images)

Liverpool fans debate whether a £23m signing was worth the money, while our Chelsea readers look ahead to Frank Lampard’s return in Your Says of the Day.

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Wijnaldum – good or bad?

I’ll start this thread up by opening it to the floor, instead of backing up my opinion that he’s good with solid evidence.

What makes Wijnaldum a good or a bad player?
Do you think his “rubbish away” tag was exaggerated or on the money?
What does he even do?

MrMakaveli

I think hes a good all round player. Can keep possession of the ball, pass, press , tackle, works very very hard in that midfield area which is so important in klopps system, can play in the defensive or attacking central midf position.

His weakness is that he doesn’t score enough goals and not a lot of creativity in his game.

redsforever

Another player who has been adapted into a position. Wijnaldum is a polished footballer who doesn’t set the world alight but perhaps doesn’t need to in the particular role Klopp has given him. See also Henderson. See also Milner.

mikus

I would agree with what reds says above plus he’s prob our most in form midfielder at the min.
He’s played several midfield positions under Klopp so far and I see this continuing. He shared the same attributes as several other of our midfielders. They’re quite interchangeable. I think that’s what Klopp wants. He can play a player who’s most inform lots and then rotate him out when needed. Someone else then comes into form and he finds himself playing more games. It’s been a feature of Klopps tenure so far.

gingerlfc

Wijnaldum seems to pick up criticism for holding up play. For me, I think he does it at good times, generally. I’m far from a master tactician but I think when he holds it up, it’s not breaking down an attack but actually creating one, by drawing his man in on him then not losing it and passing it off to then have the open space exploited. Could I be wrong about this? Absolutely. It’s an opinion of mine that I’m definitely willing to have opened up for a critical eye on here.

I can remember myself and Sean warming to Wijnaldum from the start. I’m sure there were others but my memory isn’t amazing. he’s a player who does the fundamentals well. I know it’s an opinion of many on here that henderson is of a similar make-up but as ye know, I don’t agree on this and think that it’s here where Wijnaldum becomes more valuable to the team (in my opinion).

Did it raise anyone else’s eyebrows a tad when Klopp announced that the squad voted to have Van Dijk and Gini as 3rd and 4th place captains? I think Van Dijk was a no-brainer but I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised that the lads think of Wijnaldum in such high regard. he’s clearly got a good head on his shoulders. This has already been demonstrated by his ability to essentially play every position outfield. I mean, he has apparently done that in his career.

I think the argument that he doesn’t score enough goals was a good one before, especially away goals. I would go further and say that whilst he wasn’t scoring goals away from home, he wasn’t actually going “missing” as the media and many many people were suggesting.. but the stats don’t lie? …

His form was not good for the first half of last season but like some others, he went up a few gears when we needed him. We didn’t quite get over the line but you don’t get to the CL Final if you’re a team going backwards, or whatever madness TTG will go on about.

I’ll add that I agree that wijnaldums vision for a pass could do with improving but as a number 6, especially with Fabinho next to him (hypothetical way forward) that maybe it isn’t quite as important a quality to have. So far I could hardly be more impressed with Fabinho’s distribution and eye for a pass. If Keita can settle in and that livewire from midfield that we were hoping for then I think we’ll have less a selection of similar players and more a trio of players who work well together helping us win the ball back and turn defence into attack quicker and in a more dynamic fashion.

MrMakaveli

I remember early on people were saying what does he actually do ( I was one of them) but as he’s settled he really is playing some good stuff. I think the problem for him & our other mids are that they are very similar in their attributes & at times we want them to do more, esp in the attacking sense. Hopefully the improvement in Fabinho & maybe Keita will take the heat off Gini & Hendo & we will be all the better from the depth they provide.

number8wasgr8

 

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Doom and gloom at Old Trafford

Let’s be honest, you’d never move any player on until it’s well and truly obvious he’s sh*te. It’s only just now you’re reluctantly conceding that maybe Rojo & Darmian need to be moved on. If you were manager we’d still have Rooney, Carrick, Welbeck, Blind etc. (and probably Giggs).

The problem with the “more time” view is the longer the time we give all these players the longer it is until we become a title winning team again. Its 6 years since SAF retirement and we’re no closer to winning the title than the day after he left. (and you call that progress). AND in keeping somebody who is unlikely to make the grade we block the path for homegrown or bargain buy prospects to get a chance.

As regards Lindelof, my view is I would move on almost all the team if we got a respectable offer for them. In Lindelof case, had Everton offered 30m I would have bitten their hand off. Problem is most of our deadwood is unsellable so that means whilst players like Lindelof are not top of my exit list they are easier to move on and therefore should be, if an offer comes.

You didn’t need to be Nostradamus to see we were heading into trouble. Post-Ronaldo during the “no value in the market” years it was obvious to all other than the deluded, that the quality of the team was falling. Therein lay the dispute. You (and others) argued the likes of Jones, Cleverley, Welbeck were going to be the new generation of stars.

I (nor others) were moaning we were sh*t prior to 2008. This is another of the myths you try to sell. The complaining voices grew as the Glazer under-investment started to bite.

Everybody accepted “life would be difficult” after Fergie but people like you thought “difficult” meant 2nd-3rd place finish for 2-3 seasons till your dream team of Smalling, Jones, Cleverley, Welbeck came good. People like me envisioned difficult as meaning fighting for top 4 like Arsenal & Liverpool.

It is not a given “we couldn’t continue our dominance forever!”. Back in the days when football was a level playing field that may be true but in the modern game, the big clubs have shaped the game so the big stay big. Can you see Bayern being relegated in the next 100 years!

David de Gea Man Utd

As for DDG, yes I predicted it and but for a fax machine he would have gone. That’s closer to the reality than your “he’s happy will never leave us” prediction.

Be honest happy, you believe its a fans job to be super-optimistic and defend the club from any and all criticism. You tip every player for stardom and every year will be our year or at worst needs “just a a tweak”. For me, the reality is the Glazers are our owners and as long as they are they will not give the investment needed to rebuild or maintain the team. The only hope is to have another class of 92 or find, not one, but a handful of uncut diamonds.

And as regards progress and 10 games, its not 10 games. For you the end of season is like pressing the reset button and we start counting again. But areas like team building are continuous. Pogba & Martial wanting away is not something that suddenly happened. Its been building slowly. Jose style hasn’t changed, its been developing the past 3 years.

You hail the signing of Bailley & Lindelof as an evidence of progress, a strengthened defence but JM finds the need to buy a CM. You hail Lukaku as wonderboy yet JM drops him. Sanchez is going to be on fire for you but assessment on his performance is not based on 10 games, its based on since he signed.

Progress is measured from the day JM started (for JM) and the day LvG was signed (for the club). That’s when the club announced rebuilding was needed.

MacGuffin

Not winning a title is not because we haven’t got rid of all the SAF signing but due to us failing to sign the right players. If we had signed the players Man City have it wouldn’t have made a massive impact if Valencia & Young had remained at the club.

Scholesy

 

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Frank’s big return

The club showed class once again by allowing our loanees to play against us, our promising players need every bit of exposure possible to show their class and intent and there’s no better stage. We should still beat them even if we rest 3 quarters of our regular starters.

blueowner

Frank Lampard: Back to England?

I watched Derby on Friday night and they are a very decent team who are very attack minded and press high with or without Mount and Tomori we will need to take them seriously and it will take a preety strong Chelsea team to do so but equally we have to keep Sunday and Palace in mind who are always difficult opponents.

nine nine nine

I think Sarri will rotate. More rotation than Europa. Willy will start this one as he started against Pool last time. My prediction: Caballero – Zappa, Christensen, Cahill, Emerson – Kovacic, Jorginho, Kanté – Willian, Giroud, Moses.

I would like to see Hudson-Odoi get some minutes.

aindro

Why would we need to play Jorginho and Kante whilst facing a championship team? Its simple give the fringe players and the kids some game time. CHO should start also play Loftus-Cheek. Ampadu must be afforded with some game time. Play Giroud up top supported by Moses and CHO and the same midfield that played against BATE. Like wise the defence should be the same.

wise-fan

Shame Ampadu picked up a knee injury playing for Wales. Bate and Derby would have been ideal games for him, Sarri said hopefully two weeks out on the 19/10 so it looks like the Derby game might come too early for him certainly to start after almost two weeks out not sure how he’s progressing but maybe there’s an outside chance of him making the bench? which CHO should make at least and get some minutes as per the Bate game.

As 1967 suggests we will need a strong team to see off Derby and it’s a big opportunity for Mount ( assuming he’s fit?) and Tomori to try and impress Sarri.

Derby with Frank coming back to the Bridge have everything to gain and nothing to lose so it won’t be easy but we have to protect players for the Palace game so there will obviously be a number of changes.

On Hazard’s fitness Sarri confirmed that Hazard is a doubt to line up against his former team-mate Frank Lampard and his Derby team in the League Cup at Stamford Bridge on Wednesday night.

“I want Eden as soon as possible,” Sarri told his post-match media conference at Burnley. “I don’t know for Wednesday, but I hope for Sunday.”

He continued: “I want Hazard in every match if it’s possible.

“We have a lot of very good players, but Hazard is something different. I am very happy the team was able to score seven goals in two matches without Hazard. It’s a very good sign.”

nine nine nine

Obviously we are going to rotate for the game and personally I would expect anything up to 8 changes as we did for BATE

Would like to see Willy get a chance especially as this could go to penalties. Back 4 picks itself for me with Emerson, Zappa, Cahill and Christensen. In the middle I would expect to see Fabregas, Kovacic (as he did not start on Sunday) and then a choice between Barkley and RLC but I think he would opt for RLC as Barkley is more likely for this Sunday. Up front we are limited if both Hazard and Pedro are unfit and I feel that Willian deserves a rest so feel something like Moses, Hudson Odoi and Giroud (as he needs a goal)

Will be tough and they will be up for it but would not be surprised to see Frank make a few changes as well. KTBFFH

CFC1905

My feeling is that Sarri simply won’t leave both Jorginho and Kanté on the bench. One of them has to be on the field to help the defense. Jorginho was substituted against Burnley, hence I think he will start against Derby.

Aindro

 

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