Man Utd new boy needs to do more; Chelsea already have replacement for imploding Barkley

Date published: Wednesday 27th November 2019 2:05

Manchester United fans question Harry Maguire’s impact and Chelsea apparently have a ready-made replacement for the under-fire Ross Barkley, all in our forum.

 

Join in the debate here…

 

Henderson debate

Why hasn’t Klopp moved Henderson on if he is that bad? Its not as if Klopp doesnt have the Keys to Anfield, if Klopp wanted a superior player to Henderson he could easily demand that FSG give him the funds to do so. But he didnt.

Why becasue Henderson is a very good player who executes Klopps instructions extremely well most of the time, we all know hes not World Class ball playing-wise, but when it comes to executing Klopps gengenpressing which isnt easy (see 54m Keita) then we see he has great value to the team.

Attacking wise hes not that bad as some people make out, especially when you look at the run and cross for Mane against City. I agree your not going to hang your attacking hat on Henderson but he fits perfectly for the midfield that Klopp wants.

Ironically I seen rival fans lauding our midfield and the job that it does, I remeber watching Arsenal Fan TV one time and Robbie was in awe of our midfield and the job it does for the rest of the team, they wish they had Hendo lol

mwake

 

Henderson is ‘not top quality’

mwake, so your argument is that Hendo is a great presser and harrasser in Klopp’s gegenpressing system. Cool. I’ve got nothing against him chasing down players or executing Klopps plans. My argument is that he is NOT a top quality player.

When we talk about top quality players we don’t use terms like ‘attacking wise hes not that bad as some people make out’. Not that bad? FFS, have you guys lost your minds?
Just because we are currently doing well and racking up points, it shouldn’t disable your ability to speak the truth.

I repeat again, my argument isn’t that Henderson is a ‘bad’ player or a liability. My argument is that he is ‘average’. He’s an ordinary player with nothing special about him.

Bingo //can you please use the term stat in the correct way davinci?//
How have I misused the term stat? Do you even know what you’re talking about?
Whoops.Silly question. How can someone who claims that Hendo is World Class know what’s he’s talking about LOL…Peace

Davinci

 

”I repeat again, my argument isn’t that Henderson is a ‘bad’ player or a liability. My argument is that he is ‘average’. He’s an ordinary player with nothing special about him.”

In order for you to be even close to being right, Klopp, Dalglish, Rogers, Gerrard, Carra, Suarez etc etc etc etc ALL have to be wrong
Which is it?

gingerlfc

 

davinci you keep referring to ratings as stats and it really bothers me, its like you don’t understand the difference and yet you are trying to prove your point with them and I just can’t really find a way to ask you again with out sounding like a condescending prick, can you just tell me why?

NotoriousBingo

 

Davinci, I am not funny, it is actually you who amuses people immensely because you think you know more than Klopp, yet you make so many embarassing schoolboy blunders over here that prove completely otherwise. As for never letting you down, don’t delude yourself of your ability, especially when you keep being proved wrong several times on Liverpool players.

My post related to the City game specifically, where you said Henderson was out of his depth. But you failed yet again to convince anyone, because virtually all the press gave him good ratings for this game. Where did I refer to Henderson’s stats over a season? Why change the goalposts when you lost the original debate?

How ignorant or vindictive, to criticise a player just because you don’t rate them, despite solid, undeniable proof showing that he clearly had a good game.

Try as hard as you like, but your lies about Henderson will convince nobody.

“He’s continually on the pitch because we don’t have any alternatives that are noticeably better”.

No prizes for guessing who came up with one of the most incorrect statements about Henderson ever. So basically Klopp is basically playing Henderson, because there are no better players – talk of football ignorance of the highest order.

The truth is that Henderson, just like every other Liverpool regular, is starting purely based on merit and nothing else. He is in fact seeing off competition from four midfielders, Ox, Keita, Milner and Lallana – two of whom cost at least £40m each.

As always, just like our owners FSG, let’s leave it to Klopp to deliver the big trophies, with Henderson playing a major part in our success

Songman

 

Why bother Songman? This was the guy who said Hendo wasn’t a regular and now he switches the goal post and says we don’t have any better. Funny thing is Ox was injured for most of last season and now available.

kopite

 

 

Maguire not good enough so far…

I think I’ll weigh in a bit over Maguire. Firstly, let me be clear that the fee we paid for him means we need to be seeing quality in every aspect of his game. That means passing, tackling, taking the lead, aerial battles, everything.

That being said I will hold off on a judgement but I have to agree with Blacky that he’s simply not been good enough thus far. What worries me the most is he seems to be following a similar pattern to other players who join us – he’s getting worse. When he first joined he looked worth every penny to me, he was calm, confident and absolutely dominant even with his undeniable lack of pace. He was MoM in his first game and carried that form for a fair few games.

He has looked worse and worse lately to me and I venture to say it is because of the following:

– Bad coaching/management – barring McTominay, Wan Bissaka, and Dan James none of our players play consistently to their potential; I seriously worry if these players will also eventually lose their form as Manchester United usually does to players lately. Nothing to me points to Ole or any of his staff having especially good football coaching skills. I would bet my left bollock that we would not have conceded that last minute equaliser to Sheffield if Mourinho was in charge.

– Midfield – our midfield options were rubbish from the beginning but as soon as our key player got injured (McTominay) we were sliced open all afternoon with absolute ease. If you put van Dijk in that side with the same protection from midfield he would also look stupid several times a game chasing shadows while trying to make up for everyone else’s deficiencies. Our midfield quality and depth is more fit for a relegation side.

At this point, Maguire’s form and statistics for several teams over several years before joining us means that I have to point at his environment when looking at his poor form before pointing at him. Also bear in mind that when you put players like Ashley Young, Phil Jones, Fred, Pereira, Lindelof (aerially) etc. next to any accomplished central defender on a football pitch, he will immediately assume he has to pick up the slack for their mistakes and will be pulled all over the pitch.

I’ve mentioned in the other thread where some were throwing Poch’s name around that at this point we have pretty much played our cards with Ole and in Texas Hold’Em poker terms we now have to wait for the turn and river cards. It makes no project management or business sense to start ripping up the project halfway. We have no choice but to wait for Ole to buy several first team players and to see how his vision plays out.

hatters

 

@hatters on the coaching point AWB and Dan James are both Ole’s buys, and McT is an academy player he’s building around. Out of all the others, is there anyone that we’d expect to be performing every week, or has history of performing? Maybe Rashford?

If you look at the list of defenders that Maguire would be doing training drills and tactics with every week:

Rojo, Dalot, Tuanzebe, Jones, Shaw, Bailly, AWB have all had extended periods out.
What’s left is a training session of Lindelof, Young and Williams, mixed with whichever other is fit that week.

There is clearly an issue with the integration of new signings into the right culture that’s been going on for years though. Bailly looked like Jaap Stam when he joined, Dalot was the best young full-back in Europe, Mkhitaryan was frequently described as the best player at the club, Pogba was the best midfielder in Europe, Shaw was a phenomenally good youngster at Southampton.

If you just took that small handful of players and got them to play to their potential, we’d have a great team.

Mike2005

 

@mike2005 – Come on mate stop acting like an apologist for some of these useless f**kers, you’re beginning to act like your their agent!. For example, who in f*cks name ever said that Dalot was “the best full back in Europe”?, I doubt even his Dad under the influence of an African Woodbine would have spouted such total nonsense!😂😂😂😂

He was he a crock when we bought him and he’s been so much of a crock ever since that he makes lardy Luke seem indestructible! Not only that, he couldn’t defend his own arse down the gay village on a Friday night, never mind on a football pitch so I don’t know how he ever got the gig as a full back in the first place.

He can be filed away in the folder marked “nowhere near good enough” along with far too many of the others, simple as that.

Another thing you’ll be waiting from now until eternity for is Luke Shaw or Eric Bailly to be anything other than what they already are, ie a massive big fat let down. Shaw is already in his 6th season at the club and Bailly is in his 4th and other than on the odd very rare occasion have they shown any of this great “potential” of which you speak. Not only that they are both about as robust as a poppadom.

To say either one of them could be part of a “great team” in the future is just wildly optimistic, cloud cuckoo land thinking I’m afraid. Both of them need to be cleared out of OT at the very earliest opportunity, not kept on to contribute precisely fuck all from one year to the next and continually be given big new contracts they plainly don’t deserve.

Blacky

 

Have to say Blacky, i think there is something in what Mike is hinting at. Maybe not down to coaching but something. Hard to believe with all the players through the door and money spent that not one single one can be considered a proper success. Quite a few have started well but gone to sh*t.

Looking at players like Pogba stinking the place out is baffling. There is just something toxic about the whole thing the past 5 years. I’m even starting to worry about AWB. Began great but has started to drop away the past few weeks

N1xer

 

AWB is only 21 and facing real scrutiny for the first time in his life. At 21 I’m not sure I would have coped with the pressure of having everything I did judged.
Even in our current state we are still a huge story/media draw. The public dissection of everything they do must affect the players. Even with the best psychological prep in the world it must be difficult.
Remember how England players used struggle with the expectancy of playing at Wembley, it seems a similar thing affects the players when they play for Utd

hookeddevil

 

@N1xer- We’ve been terrible at identifying and bringing in the right players for well over a decade mate, it’s nothing new. Ferguson’s record in the last few years of his tenure was fucking terrible, one clown was followed by another and another and another.
Let’s face it, half of these self entitled fuckers just haven’t got what it takes between the ears to be successful, never mind the talent. They are far more concerned with their own personal agendas, social media profiles, big houses and flash cars, and they’ve all got their own ‘team” of hangers on blowing smoke up their arses telling them how great they are, even when they are stinking out the shirt every week.
The continued awarding of big new contracts to guys who have failed year after year is also a problem, and sends the wrong message that no matter how shite you are you are still going to be looked after. Fuck me, if Phil Jones sees out the full term of his latest deal he will have been at the club as long as Bryan Robson was!

As for Pogba, that’s another thing Ole has got wrong I’m afraid, because as soon as he went public on wanting to leave Ole should have told Woodturd that he didn’t want him and his agent poisoning the atmosphere in the dressing room and got him out of the club, but he was far too weak to take that big decision.
It was obvious that he would down tools, just like he did under Mourinho and there have been quite a few rumours circulating recently that he has played his last game for the club and that his injury is just a smokescreen so that he gets his move away in January.

Blacky

 

I agree with Mike that Vidic had protection and a good partner at CB. But Blacky is also right. Due to our attacking nature during that period. Vidic had to do loads of defending one on one where you would be isolated 1 vs 1.

Like Terry he always positioned himself well to stop himself being caight out. Don’t get me wrong he had a period where Torres gave him a tough time.

mufc

 

@blacky To defend these players wasn’t my point at all. The point was that they were all good players before they joined us, but went downhill after joining the club.

I said Dalot was the best “young” fullback, as in for his age group. He was in the Porto first team, highly rated for internation u21’s and putting in top performances in the champions league. Mourinho came out publicly and stated he was expected to get straight into the first team.

There’s an issue with signing bad players, but there’s also been an issue getting any new players to reach their level.

Mike2005

Chelsea players to be sold

Players who should leave or should be sold in January or in the summer: Giroud, Pedro, Drinkwater
Not sure to sell or to retain: Barkley, Batshuayi, Alonso, Willian, Emerson
Players I would like us to buy to improve our squad: Chilwell, Jadon Sancho or Hakim Ziyech. If we go for a GK, probably Donnaruma? Of course Kylian Mbappe would be great but I cannot see him joining us 🙂

aindro

 

Conor Gallagher progressing nicely

Jorginho Barkley TEAMtalk

“Conor Gallagher is having an excellent season in his first year of senior football on loan at Championship side Charlton Athletic.

Under the guidance of Lee Bowyer, the Chelsea midfielder has produced some excellent numbers so far.

According to Transfermarkt, the 19-year old has been directly involved in 8 goals for Charlton this season in 17 appearances across all competitions. He has scored 6, and assisted 2 from midfield so far and we haven’t even hit Christmas yet.

Yesterday, Frank Lampard described Ross Barkley as ‘showing a lack of professionalism’ after another reported nightclub incident over the international break.

Lampard on Barkley 1/2: “One is the headlines this week. Ross knows how I felt about the first headline. I backed him then and now. He showed a lack of professionalism.”

Lampard on Barkley 2/2: “I don’t want to become a dictator because he deserves some freedom. I like Ross, he is one of my players. He needs to show his reactions on the pitch.”

At this rate, if Barkley doesn’t show miracle improvements on and off of the pitch, he is likely to be out the door and replaced by Gallagher, who is showing all the signs of having a great Chelsea future.

Lampard will not take these kinds of attitudes and unprofessional-ism. Whilst he has been wise in protecting Barkley in public, this will not be sitting well with the Chelsea manager.”

nine nine nine 

 

 

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