One signing that represented a major change in Man Utd culture

Manchester United’s fans discuss ole Gunnar Solskjaer’s transition period and one Chelsea fan pinpoints Zurt Zouma and thinks he’s struggling, all in our forum.

Join in the debate here…

 

‘Lampard shows naivety’

Like many on here I too was extremely frustrated by the result on Saturday, and again want to give FL the time that he needs.

Yes we have key players out injured, and yes we have the issue of the transfer ban and yes we have some players not performing to their true potential, however there is a bit of naivety with some of the decisions with FL & JM, which I hope they will learn from. I also hope that the fans the Board and the Owner have the patience.

I have every faith in FL and his backroom staff in getting it right, however I feel that it would not be the worst thing, even if only for one season, that they had a bit more experience of the Premier League on the backroom staff.

As for Azpi, I have mentioned in a previous post about him being given the Captaincy of the club and I feel that that has impacted on his performances.

We have seen it before in other players, maybe not at Chelsea, but other clubs where a good players form dips when he takes over the armband, and Azpi’s dip in form has coincided with the increased responsibility as Vice last season with Cahill not being selected and this season with the full responsibility.

Many players have leadership qualities without the title, but struggle when it becomes official. Maybe Frank needs to sit down and (forgive the pun) have a frank conversation with Azpi, and consider a new Captain.

There is an awful lot that FL & JM are getting right, its just a pity that where it is not 100% right it is costing us.

In two weeks we will hopefully have a fresher more robust squad to select from which can only be of a benefit!

NIBlue

 

999 it’s really a good article, thanks for sharing that. And I have to agree with that. They way Chelsea play under Lampard must be taxing for the players. Constant pressing, constant movements, and we so far can only do that for the first 20, max 30 min. And after that, we are on the mercy of the opposition as we are tired. But it’s a good sign though, we’ve never been so exciting to watch since long time.

Read on CFC website, agreed with FL that our 2 goals were gifted by SHU. They were not clear chances, they were more like errors from them. The first was GK error, the 2nd miscommunication between their 2 centre backs.

But what’s good is that Tammy was there to pounce on those opportunities, that would have been gone to waste last season as we did not have a good striker. Also we should not be happy to quickly as Tammy’s 4 goals were against teams he had faced last season, teams who were promoted. Our next match against Wolves, a very solid team, would be interesting. I am hoping that Tammy would score again to continue his streak, but let’s see. They are solid.

aindro

 

Zouma ‘out of his depth’

Kurt Zouma TEAMtalk

So the curse strikes again and Kovacic withdraws from the Croatian squad due to injury. and we have Kante already in the treatment room. I would suggest Lampard test the idea of using Christensen as a holding midfielder next Jorginho. that may give us the defensive solidity if Kante cannot make in time to face Wolves.

Zouma seems to be out of his depth for now. but I will not give up on him yet. he needs to education tactically. and one thing I have noticed about him is that he is not comfortable with the ball but defensively he is good.

young_blue

 

No problem with United sales 

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the outs. After we made our signings a lot of fans were saying that they would judge the window successful or not by who left the club. I think that when you look at our long term strategy for who should be in the first team and the style of football we want to play we’ve made some excellent steps forward.

Players Out: Darmian, Smalling, Sanchez, Lukaku, Herrera, Fellaini – Out of all these, only Smalling and Fellaini were in any way consistent, but most fans wanted them out of the team because of their playing style and limitations.

Players In: Maguire, AWB, James – All three have hit the ground running, form a British core of hungry players who won’t create constant media hype about leaving every transfer window.

Youth players promoted/elevated: Chong, Gomes, Garner, Tuanzebe, Greenwood – All these players look to have quality and show some degree of promise. In letting Smalling go, it means Tuanzebe is now closer to the first team and will play cup games. In letting Lukaku and Sanchez go, it means Gomes, Chong and Greenwood will get the games.

The long term vision and style of play seems to be there for Ole. I think the biggest issue Ole probably had was that he didn’t want Herrera out, with him playing deeper and Pogba roaming i’m pretty sure we would have seen off Palace and Saints. I also think there wasn’t much left in the Glazer kitty and that we probably wanted Longstaff to come in for that role, but only at under £30m.

If next year, we only got Longstaff (or another) and Sancho, but had Tuanzebe pushing Lindelof for the center back spot, James, Gomes, Sancho and Chong fighting for the wing spots and Rashford, Martial and Greenwood fighting for centre forward I think we’d have a great young team that could go on and challenge for the next 5 years.

Ok, we might not be at City’s squad level still, but there would be a very strong, balanced, hard working, British core of players, and it would be a question of tweaking it with one or two world class players.

Results this season could be frustrating, especially for the first 10 games or so whilst the team form partnerships. Ole is not Mourinho, he was the most successful coach in a generation, he’ll need to improve along the way too, but he knows the club, he knows the youth players and he’ll keep on making the right long term decisions for us.

Mike2005

 

Mike – Problem is the reactive, impatient and negative fanbase we have now. I honestly don’t think Ole will be given the patience to try to implement everything you’ve said above. We’re trying to change the last 5 years of mismanagement and yet a draw at Southampton is seen as the end of the world. Neville has called for patience whilst we wait to see the outcome of Ole’s vision, i just don’t see fans falling in line with our current status.

Our expectations and our actual level are poles apart and there is no way that “fans” will wait for that gap to be bridged.

happyhurling

 

@mike2005 – problem is Gomes and Chong haven’t been given the gametime have they? Greenwood have been used as a last 5 minute prayer only. Lingard, who has been absolutely atrocious so far this year, is getting the game time ahead of them.

At this point in time all we have is a first team using the same players up front that we’ve been using for ages and have been failing with (bar James) but now, instead of having a senior player to come off the bench and possibly change things, we have 17 and 18 year olds.

If Ole and the coaching team think that Gomes, Chong and Greenwood can lead us to our objectives then they should (and would) play them – the fact that they keep falling back on the horrendous Lingard shows that they don’t trust them and that they’re not ready to play; and then that falls in the managers lap for not planning ahead for this.

Sympathy for the devils

 

Glazers to blame

Solskjaer Glazers TEAMtalk

With regards the squad and the club in general then the Glazers have to take the blame, or at least a significant portion of it. They have invested money but since it’s become clear that Woodturd hasn’t a rashers they haven’t insisted that he install a Director of Football which would be the logical thing to do.
As for on-field issues then Ole has to take the blame. We’re all jumping for joy that Sanchez, Darmian, Smalling and co. have all gone and that young players are getting a run, but they haven’t really, as pointed out. Gomes, Chong and Greenwood have either not appeared or only been given a slender chance, Tuanzebe in defence hasn’t graced the field at all.

Either OGS trusts them or he doesn’t. If he does, he should play them and give decent playing time to really judge them, or he shouldn’t have let some of the above deadwood leave and leave us with a skeleton squad.

killyboye

 

@Sympathy for the Devils – I hear you, but I think that is a normal process. It would be difficult to bench the likes of Rashford and Martial and put youngsters in from day 1.

He’s probably said “Ok Martial, Lukaku is gone, you’re the number 9 this season, you’re my first choice, go and prove yourself. Mason Greenwood, you need to show me every week in training that you are working harder than Martial and deserve to play”. Then Greenwood gets used as a sub for some games, and plays in the cups. If Martial drops his level for a couple of matches and Greenwood is training like a beast, then he gets a go at taking his spot. Also players can understand this, it’s very clear (even for footballers), if he just gets dropped at the start of the season for a kid that looks good in training, he’s going to be all disgruntled again.

That’s a normal way of bringing youngsters through and keeping the hunger going. Also, the young players tend to benefit more from extensive training and less match time, so you have to balance it a bit.

I don’t think it’s Ole’s fault we didn’t bring in another player or two in midfield, the board have left him with a headache this season he didn’t need.

Mike2005

 

Same old mistakes…

@happy, I can only speak for myself but I think many agree with me that they’re willing to show a lot of patience if there is a visible plan and progress. The club has failed on those fronts for several years and while we are seeing some signs of it now, the problem is that the club keeps making the same mistakes over and over again. I can handle us losing games but when we lose due to the same mistakes and negligence it gets frustrating. A blind man could have spotted our weaknesses years ago but no one can/will do anything about it, which is why we’re falling further and further behind.

roygbiv

 

Thanks Roygbiv. Yeah i agree but i think there is a visible plan now, isn’t there? I guess the problem is trying to measure progress from several years ago. For me the cycle starts again with every new manager rather than from the time Fergie left. Maybe that’s not the correct way of looking at it. But for me Ole is starting a new plan, a new vision with new goals and i don’t think we’re in the same space as we were with Jose.

One mistake it seems we are not repeating is the one where we keep Darmian.

P.S. Do you think people on here have shown signs of patience in the wake of the Palace and Southampton results?

happyhurling

 

2 separate issues really. Things that go ‘wrong'( substitutions, tactics etc) on match day are Ole’s fault BUT he can only work with what he has got. I find it incomprehensible that Woodward has the power he has. He obviously hasn’t got a clue, which in itself is a reflection of the Glazer’s purpose in owning this club. They are Americans for heavens sake!!! What do they know about English football in general and specifically MANCHESTER UNITED as a club with all its history and past glories? It stinks!!

steveJ

 

Patience key

@happyhurling – You complain that fans are not patient but you say results are what matters for you and if we lose it ruins your weekend. That translates to pressure on the manager to focus on getting a result more than developing the team and tactic AND it adds pressure on the board to sack the manager if results are poor. A case of pot and kettle methinks !

PS – Are you suggesting neither the philosopher not the special one had plans. Every new manager will have a plan but what is the clubs plan? Resetting the cycle with every managerial change is the argument for a DoF, an argument you support. Is this a flip flop from you or are you just hedging your bets with a foot both sides of the fence?

PPS – People have been annoyed at the results but the anger is mostly directed at the players, who fans have been saying are sh*t for a long time. The patience is there, giving ole time to replace the sh*t but there is no patience for the Glazers not proving funds.

MacGuffin

 

@Happy, I think that the immediate reaction after a disappointing, lackluster performance is hardly the measurement of patience. People will always use stronger language in the heat of the game than when after the dust has settled. Even you have been known to drop an f-bomb or two after a disappointing performance.

I think most people don’t see any sense in sacking Ole. I don’t think he was the right long-term appointment at this point but sacking him won’t get us anywhere. He will need to be backed heavily in the transfer market with focus on quality and a clear vision of what kind of team we want to be. That vision has been clouded for a long time and I don’t see why the people who are to blame for that should be trusted to do the right thing now. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity!

roygbiv

 

Spoilt by Fergie’s success…and Fellaini

I do think so many of the United fans have been spoiled by the successes of the Ferguson era. Fergie was a generational talent; a man who beat Arsenal with 7 defenders and also put 8 past them with Cleverley and Anderson as the midfield pairing. Some bumps on the road of the OGS era and we’re ready to lynch him.

Transitions take time, and I can see him moving back to what United are all about. Fellaini represented everything that changed about Uniteds culture – a move away from real football to long range tactics. Lukaku hadn’t the technical skill nor the big game proficiency of a United forward. Sanchez was a complete flop, and, should we actually sell, will free up our wage structure from the astronomical wage he was getting – a bad precedent to set in a team. Take Herrera for example, wanted a massive wage to stay which he simply wasn’t worth! Was/is he better than a lot of our current CM’s? Probably.

But we shouldn’t hamstring ourselves to one players demands, else it festers throughout the squad. The likes of Smalling, Darmian, Valencia all need/needed to go. Ole had the balls to finally do it! Is there more that need to go? Definitely, but we can’t change a whole squad in one transfer window. He should have been backed further and given the players he wanted by the board but he has forced their hand by draining the squad. He will find the right players. Dybala didn’t want to come and would have been another Di Maria for example. Not the player to have here and i’ll take a Mason Greenwood who wants to play over Dybala who doesn’t any day!

Not to incite fury by comparing us to the scousers, but as they’re reigning european champs we should remember that it was 4/5 years ago that they were 8th in the league with a strikeforce of Balotelli, Benteke, Borini and Lambert. The wheel always turns. Ole is at the wheel and he will turn it back.

Roonshine