Ander Herrera…

This topic contains 52 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by CR CR 4 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #1750951

    moral
    Participant
    • :

    We will definitely sign 1 CM and possibly 2. We need 2.
    As Fred, Matic, Herrera, Pereira all have 1 thing in common – not good enough. It made sense to persist with Fred over Herrera – age.

    #1750954

    moral
    Participant
    • :

    Hatters, do not agree with you re Mata and Herrera and their world class performances. 2 inconsistent, patchy players who did not deliver the goods as far as I am concerned. Neither were cheap and neither were on a pittance.
    Herrera was offered 200K plus after rax at PSG – definitely correct not to pay him that.

    #1750955
    redblood
    redblood
    Participant
    • :

    Lol,@hatters must be drunk when he wrote that,surely? Mata & Herrera gave us world class performances,lol.Not even in their wildest dreams!!

    #1750964
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    hatters – my info is that Herrera was on 80k per week. The club offered him a 3 year deal at 130k pw but he insisted on 200k pw which was what PSG were offering.

    I can understand the club saying No given his age and all the factors moral listed in his post. We all complain about the crazy money and if 30-33 year old Herrera, who is not even established as automatic start, is on 200k how much will others want. MInd you it was Pogba and Sanchez wages that caused the problem.

    People say there are others who should be out of the door before Herrera but they didn’t refuse 50% pay increases, they accepted the deals. Smart move for them since nobody else would offer them the same let alone better.

    The real problem is Ed and JM should have decided on Herrera last summer and either made a deal then or sold him. Ed is to blame for leaving it till now.

    Everybody is criticising the club but nobody is saying anything about Herrera greed. Fair enough he’s following the money, I’ve got no problem with that but let’s no talk of loyal servant, loves the club and all that baloney. I’m sure he could have scraped by on 130,000 a week. I could !!!!

    #1750965
    Alfie07
    Alfie07
    Participant
    • :

    Moral, if we are bringing in four or five players maximum, and you list six excluding Herrera which need replacing (Young, Jones, Smalling, Mata, Matic, Sanchez) and we also have question marks over Pogba, Martial and Rashford and this list excludes Valencia, Rojo and Darmian add in Lingard, Bailly and Pereira and the decision (or lack of action to sign Herrera up earlier) seems a poor one to me.

    We know certain players are leaving, so if we are only going to sign four or five, we will be left with large holes in the squad, a lot of youth or a lot of players from the above list come next season.

    Let’s hope Ole is making plans to change that and bring in more players than he is saying he will.

    #1750968

    moral
    Participant
    • :

    You will see on another thread what I propsed.
    I am assuming that Shaw and Lindelof will be kept and supplemented with a Centre back (Maguire) and right back (Cancelo). That would mean Young ould cease to be 1st choice and Jones/Smalling 1st choice to play alongside Lindelof. Shaw and Lindelif positions to be reviewed in 12 months.

    Proposing Rice and Bruno Fernandes to replace Herrera and Matic and play alingside Pogba. If Pogba goes, buy a replacement. Whether he stays or goes, Herrera not up to it. Midfield 3 of Pogba, Rice, Fernandes.
    Right wing for me is a punt on James or a young gun.
    Thats 4 in the 50+ range (Maguire will be 60 to 70) and 1 in the 15m range.

    Would be a decent start. If Lukaku goes, buy someone like Dembele (Lyon).

    So with no big name departures, buy 4 big signings + 1 punt.

    #1750972

    moral
    Participant
    • :

    Im talking about improving the first 11 so that we see less of young, Jones, Smalling, Matic, Mata, Sanchez…..week to week.

    #1750993

    happyhurling
    Participant
    • :

    Mac – I don’t think it’s really about £130k a week, which we could all easily live on. It’s about a player who gives his all for the club – is passionate, a leader on the pitch and was one of Ole’s 3 best players during his amazing run of wins – being offered a sum of money that didn’t reflect his attributes or the desire for the club to keep him. If i was Herrera i’d be asking my agent why PSG are offering me more money than my beloved club, the richest in the world?
    I also read that Ed completely ignored the situation, Herrera was in total darkness over it. He was planning to extend his stay all the way through until a couple of months ago when he HAD to start looking at other options, because of lack of communication from the club.

    I don’t blame Herrera for this.
    It’s easy saying he should be able to live on £130k a week but why should he? Especially when he sees Pogba strolling around next to him and quadruple his salary.
    And as well as that, other clubs are offering him £200k a week – why is that?

    #1751001
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @happyhurling – Fair enough, you would give Herrera 200k on a 3 year deal until he’s 33. And how much will you offer DDG bearing in mind his importance and resale value. And then Mata and Rashford and others. Then you consider new signings. They will look at the wage structure and assuming they are quality players will demand a wage with suitable differential to Herrera. You don’t have to balance the books and keep an eye on wages but the club does.

    As for PSG aren’t you the one complaining about how sheikhs are ruining the game by paying silly money in fees and wages. Yet here you are wanting us to match their silly money.

    You ask why should he have to make do on 130k pw. Well there are millions of people around the world who do not see money as the only criteria determining where they work. If he truly loved the club he would be happy to stay. And let’s be honest here. It’s not as if his best years are ahead of him or that he can point to his outstanding contribution.

    Your view is not based on how good he is, it’s based on the fact there are so many worse than him who are still here. You know the players I mean, the ones you have been defending for years saying how they will come good and are not as bad as folk make out. Need a list ?

    #1751002
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    PS – I dont think the club ignored the situation. My guess is they did not expect another club to give him a better deal and it would be like the Fellaini situation. PSG obviously screwed up that strategy but lets be honest, Herrera was hardly a target for the big clubs. Its the free transfer that inflates the wages, like we did for Sanchez (albeit he was not totally free).

    #1751019

    happyhurling
    Participant
    • :

    You can never avoid the dig about comments made in the past can you? Ever

    #1751052
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    happyhurling – the reason I dig you is because you have made so many. In fact you have made them about every player, every season. And you somehow think that come end of the season it’s like the reset button on a video game, everything said is gone, forgotten as if it was never said.

    I can live with your delusions and spin but what bothers me is how you go after others (ie me) when we don’t happen to share your delusions and visions. I called Fred and unknown and you took me to task for that. You touted Shaw as finally coming good. After pre-season Sanchez was going to have a cracking season. Basically what you do is imagine what you want to see and proclaim it as odds on certainty. And get prickly if anybody looks like bursting your bubble.

    If you stopped having a go at those who do not see it as you do (ie me) then perhaps I’d cut you some slack when it all goes pear shaped for you.

    If you just came clean about your philosophy, how its a fans duty to big up the club and players no matter what, to find excuses when something is unacceptable, to put down rival clubs and players and to bully other fans into following your tribal outlook.

    You are like an English version of Trump, say any bullshit that suits your agenda today then deny, double down or bury it tommorow when you say something different.

    PS – This season is hardly the past. Shall we talk about progress (didn’t you say wait till the end of the season before revisiting that one).

    #1751065

    happyhurling
    Participant
    • :

    I know why you do it, what I’m saying is you can’t resist the temptation to have a dig – even when we’re having an amicable conversation about something else. This is the Ander Herrera thread, for example. But you can’t help but bring up the Sanchez thing. Even though he had a great preseason and looked really sharp. Actually most people, those who don’t rely on a 4×1 write up on United in the Bangkok Post, we’re in agreement that this was going to be Sanchez’s year. Hindsight is fantastic to backfill an argument isn’t it?!

    Don’t think I’ve had a go at anyone for quite a while.

    The progress debate is null and void after Jose was sacked. But, as the all seeing eye, you obviously saw that coming.

    #1751245
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @happyhurling – No you don’t comprehend why I do it, else you would modify your behaviour or admit to the forum the underlying reasons why you feel compelled to make wild assertions all the time.

    You are in damage limitation mode seeking to banish reminders of your wild assertions to the topic in which they were made. The topic here is not just Herrera. Its club strategy with regard to contracts for players who do not perform the level expected of them. Your comments (opinions) are pretty meaningless, a computer could be programmed to give them. You will support keeping any player you like, and your criteria for liking a player is not his quality, its what you perceive as his loyalty.

    Pointing out your comments in this thread have little value is a worthwhile point to be made in this thread.

    Why do you say such silly things as me relying on write ups in the Bangkok post. Dont you think we have cable tv and internet here. In fact you’re the one whose comments seem to be based just on results & statistics rather than play & performance.

    You evaded my question about wage structure and what wages you would give to other players. And I never said it but there is also the point of what message does it send. We complain about players but want to reward under-performance with pay hikes. Look at the results these players have produced the past 6 years.

    And yes, you’ve stopped having a go at people ever since you saw the light, left the legion of bedwetters and became leader of the miserable bastards.

    And yes I saw it coming, just as I saw an iceberg ahead when you were talking of Fergie leaving a title winning team. And the reason is the same. Look at the players not the results.

    #1751259
    theMartial Art
    theMartial Art
    Spectator
    • :

    Shame. May not be a world beater but at least he had the right attitude everytime he was on the pitch. Utd should be ashamed for letting go of one of the few players who is actually a proper professional and always gives his all for the team. How Young, Smalling, Jones, Matic, Sanchez, Mata, etc outlasted Herrera beggars belief.

    #1751331
    killyboye
    killyboye
    Participant
    • :

    I don’t anyone disputes that Herrera was a superb professional who always gave his all while on the pitch. He was a model pro to be fair but from what I remember of various threads was that almost everyone agreed that while the above was true, the fact that he just wasn’t good enough was also true. He worked hard, played hard, tried hard but ultimately he wasn’t a United standard player, and while I will be sorry to see him go because of his attitude, I will also look on it as another player who wasn’t good enough leaving the club.
    Sincerely thank you Ander, but we need better! (Whether we’ll get that is, of course, a matter for a whole other thread.)

    #1751337
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    Well said killyboye! Looking back players like JOS, Philip Neville, Butt, Brown, Poborski and many others gave it their all but were let go because they were not good enough. In this case, Herrera wasn’t shipped out, he was offered a contract with 50% pay hike but refused beccause PSG offered more. Fair enough, but we mock oil rich clubs for inflating fees and wages yet some here want us to do the same.

    #1751344
    killyboye
    killyboye
    Participant
    • :

    Mac, there have always been clubs who were willing to pay more than us, where we used to hold an advantage was in the fact that we generally scouted well and recruited young players on smaller wages which grew as they progressed or ended when they were sold if they didn’t progress well enough. These players were then gently blended into the first team which was always a good mix of youthful exuberance and solid experience. The problem at the moment is that we don’t have solid experience of the quality we used to have (Robson, Pallister, Bruce, Ince, Keane, Neville, Giggs etc) and we’re faced with the unusual situation of having to go out and buy it, and we’re doing it extremely badly at the moment. We need to buy two to three top players in the 27-30 bracket who can come in and remould the dressing room over a season or two and then revert to bringing in the right young players who can eventually replace these leaders in the club. We’re a long way from it at the moment though.

    #1751625
    redblood
    redblood
    Participant
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    #1752092
    Alfie07
    Alfie07
    Participant
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    I realise it’s only paper talk, but the Mirror are reporting Herrera will earn £300k a week at PSG. Can’t be true.

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