Are we as far behind as people think?

This topic contains 22 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by  Goonerz_unite 5 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #1644153

    Goonerz_unite
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    Whilst I’m not expecting miracles, or a sudden push for the league, I honestly don’t think we are as far behind some of the other clubs as some people on here seem to think. Our squad isn’t as strong in depth as perhaps the Manchester clubs, but in terms of depth we’re probably on a level with Liverpool and Spurs (you only need to look at Liverpool’s bench for the CL final to realise this).

    Our first team attacking players are probably some of the best in the league with Aubs, Lacazette, Miki and Ozil on a par with any of the top clubs. If we can tie down Ramsey and Wilshere, and add them to Xhaka and a new DM our midfield would also be pretty strong, especially if you start to add some of our youth players into the mix. It will be great to see the progression of players like Maitland-Niles, Nelson and Nketiah next year.

    We all know it’s our defence that needs the most work, and it’s this which weirdly gets me most excited about next season. I read an article on here a week or so ago where former players talk about Emery. One of the players started off by saying that the whole squad said he was boring and some hated him. That day after day they would do the same thing over and over again, but that suddenly they noticed that when they were on the pitch, they knew what each other was going to do and that they had become a unit without even realising it. THIS is what we’ve been missing. It almost reminds me George Graham, when everything in defence just becomes instinct, rather than the fear we currently see on their faces when the opposing team attacks. With the right acquisitions, and a well drilled defence, I think we can probably quite easily pick up another 15 points or so, and I could see us going far in the cup competitions. I also think the signing of Lichsteiner is a good piece of business. He may be old, but he played 22 games for Juve last year and he’s a proven winner. Even if he doesn’t displace Bellerin, he’s a role model for him and I can see him being a useful back up player, and at the very least may toughen Bellerin up a bit.

    I can see why Gazidis is excited. I haven’t looked forward to a new season as much as this one for a very long time.

    #1644209
    The Oracle
    The Oracle
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    If anything we are further behind at the moment than people think. To suggest our squads are as strong as Liverpool & Spurs is laughable. This takes me back to the clowns 12 months ago who reckoned we had the strongest squad in the PL and one even claimed we would win the PL because we are better than Man City. No our attacking players are not as good as anything in the PL. Abamayeng is possibly past his best, Lacazette has been a disappointment, MickeyMousian was a makeweight in a transfer who has done little and dont even get me started on Ozil. To suggest that our midfield with Ramsey, Wilshere and Xhaka will be up there with the best is laughable also. Xhaka is not even PL standard never mind anything else. Unai and the others in the band may well sort things out and we move on and improve but so will the others. When you look at proposed transfer activity not much is happening and I cant say Im overly impressed with the players we have been linked with. We have to be realistic about the future and hope the new setup can deliver but Wenger has left us in such a mess it wont be easy.

    #1644251

    andy528
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    I would say we miles behind City and some way behind a couple of others at the minute – how much making up there is to do is up for debate. I think in this squad, we have people who are not good enough for the club….we have people who another manager may be able to get more out of and we have others who have ability and were not performing.
    We need Unai to be the man who can motivate this group and get them disciplined and grafting instead of defending their garbage performances and letting them do what they want on the pitch.

    Without question, we need at least 4 players adding. A keeper, a CB, a midfielder and a wide man. The group is then going to need time to adapt, which is why I think Emery is targeting experienced players to attempt to minimise that transition time when other clubs are going to continue to strengthen.

    I am looking forward to the new season for the first time in ages. In reality I expect City, United, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea to be stronger than us next season. What I want from Arsenal is to see some fight for once. To see people want to play for the club and the fans and to be proud of the club again.

    That said…..if its true that we are sniffing around Fellaini, then I’m done!

    #1644264

    momo
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    As long as the clubs above us can out spend us I don’t we have a chance in hell of catching them. When the likes of Liverpool can spend 40 million on Fabinho to replace Emre Can and Man Utd close to 50 for Fred to replace the retiring carrick we won’t be improving position wise any time soon. Yes can I see the new manager getting more out of the players yes, but that might be the initial push you get when appointing a new manager when everyone has something to prove without investment and major investment I can’t see this team getting any closer to the top.

    #1644269
    Al The Gooner
    Al The Gooner
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    Goonerz – I’d say no, we’re nowhere near as far behind as some people think – and I stress some people.

    It makes no sense to say Wenger was a rubbish manager if the squad is so poor – if both were so bad, then sixth was a bit of an achievement!

    We outscored every PL team last season, bar City and Liverpool. What let us down time and time again – and where we dropped the bulk of our points – was stupid defensive mistakes, usually against teams we should beat comfortably. What you said about Emery – that’s exactly what Adams and co used to say about GG and if Emery’s ex-players are saying the same thing about him, that’s another good reason to be very optimistic about our future.

    Andy, it obviously never hurts to strengthen any position, if a player is available but I have to disagree with you mate – I think the only place we actually need attention is in defence. Kos and Monreal are both getting on, so need replacing in the near future and the ‘keeper position needs attention. Other players like Holding, Chambers, Mustafi, Bellerin and Xhaka will benefit immediately from a manager that doesn’t have the sort of contempt for the defensive side of the game that Wenger did. Also liked what we’ve seen so far of the Greek kid.

    Up front and attacking midfield, I’ll have no concerns at all if we don’t bring in a single player, although so much depends on what formation Emery intends to use.

    I’m surprised we seem to be so busy already. True, you don’t know how many of the links are pure speculation, by bored journalists, but most transfer business will be done after the World Cup.

    I’m with Goonerz – I haven’t been this excited about the upcoming season for a very, very long time.

    And, if Wenger goes to Madrid (or anywhere), it’ll be fascinating to compare his performance with Emery’s. I have no doubt Emery will improve us just by bringing in some organisation and work ethic and that’s before he makes any personnel changes. City (and possibly Liverpool) are too far ahead of us right now but Utd, Chelski and the Spuds are all very catchable.

    #1644288

    stev2bath1
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    • :

    Some people always get carried away Oracle if half of what you said was true how did we even finish 6th! We have a decent forward line and options on the bench which is at least comparable to most of the top five. We do need strengthening in midfield and at the back to make us a bit more competitive but its the team that counts with Emery. The plan is he improves the players we have and the team formation and mentality which I hope and think he will. This will make a big difference to us. I don’t think its a case of fire sale although there may be casualties for those who can not adapt. So I agree we are not to far off of top four challenge but we are miles off of City!

    #1644300
    the specialone
    the specialone
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    It depends in what sense your actually asking.I think this question is mostly subjective at this very moment in time because you don’t know what’s going to happen next season,regardless of whichiever manager we had signed.

    If your asking in terms of squad comparison,we will always be be behind the two Manchester clubs or any club for that matters that shows ambition and outsepnds us and is not worried about their balance sheet.The two manchester clubs are much stronger than us,one of whom we sold our best player to yet again and got their squad player in return(simple fact!).Then there’s chelsea,who again has a stronger squad(I wouldn’t say by a lot).But it’s interesting to see what happens there,because RA has halted plans for stadium redevelopment and might not invest because of the current political tensions.Then it’s Liverpool,its this team that worries me the most.Already have a world class manager who is signings unbelivable players.They’ve already signed keita and fabinho,and are being linked with every top player out there which I think they’ll get because unlike us they actually have good negotiators.Tottenham?World class manager yet again and a world class chairman who have been overacheieving since many years(trophies are not necessarily a means to measure sucess for every club).

    Arsenal?I think we have a good squad but i’ll stop there.If it were upto me I could change many things.i’ve already suggested what our transfer strategy should be.However,we are not a club who’s ambitious it’s been proven time and again.we will keep on giving chance to youngsters and that will keep on costing us.i don’t think we are capable to sign the players we require.We will always fall short.That’s why i don’t trust.And most of all,until kronke actually invests his money on anything other than buying shares we will not even come close to winning the PL.Yes,i’m happy about the manager appointment but we’re way way far off from trophies.

    #1644349
    The Oracle
    The Oracle
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    Im sorry but to defend Wenger is ludicrous. How can you say it was an achievement to finish 6th if Wenger was so bad and the squad was so poor. The squad was poor, thats why we only finished 6th. Squads have to be looked at in toto, in other words in its entirety. The Arsenal squad that Wenger assembled, yes Wenger, no one else, was totally unbalanced. Every squad contains 3 areas (4 if you include goalkeepers), defence, midfield and attack. We have a number of attackers, two of which are very recent additions who cost £100million, one of which wasn’t Wenger’s signing. Two others, Welbeck and Perez have been disastrous. As for defence we are a bereft of anything resembling top quality, midfield is no better with the biggest waste of money in the clubs history, Mesut Ozil who cost £42.5million and is now on over £300K per week (thats £15.6m per year) on top of the £35m he has already taken out of the club. There has been a series of appalling buys in the last 10years, I have posted the list on many occasions. For a club of Arsenal’s stature, with the largest match day revenue of any club in the world 6th is hardly an achievement. Its Wenger’s squad, its poor, unbalanced, expensive and has underachieved due to his poor management and appalling tactics. To suggest he cant be that bad because we finished 6th last season is plain stupid.

    #1644440
    AndyC
    AndyC
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    • : AndyC

    We are not that far away if you look at the squad from last season, the manager and where we finished you’d have to say we are not that far behind anyone except Man City. Man City do have the best manager in the world bar none, and also the deepest pockets in world football bar none!
    We have some very good players, we have some good players and we have average players. Every squad has this balance some weighted more in one direction than the other. Our attack is very good – Lacazette, Ozil, Aubamayang, Mikki with young players like Nelson, and average (good squad players) like Welbeck. Midfield has the likes of Ramsey and Wilshere who i regard as very good players on their day. Wenger was culpable for not getting the best more often, honestly, i think Emery will. Then you have Xhaka and elneny, average players but again good squad players. With young players like naitland coming through. The area that in my personal opinion doesn’t have one good player is the defense, all average and i dont even think emery could make mustafi a good player.
    In summary, no we are not far behind whatever others may think, this team doesnt need major a surgery. We need 2/3 defenders, a holding midfielder is a must! i wouldn’t stress too much about attacking or wide players – it would be nice but not urgent.
    We have a manager come in who has a good rep for getting the best out of average players, i’d like to think he would be able to get even more from this team than he has with any other team before. if he can get even just 10% more out of Xhaka, rambo, bellerin and add in teh defenders it appears we are sourcing then we have a team that will challenge for top 4 next season. 1 step at a time remember, The main issue has been removed from the club.

    #1644535

    muffler_1
    Participant
    • :

    I dont think we are that far behind but we will get left in the dust if we dont act in the market as Pool, Utd are doing.

    Quite simple you cant cheap out and think you will get closer

    #1644671

    T_Adams
    Participant
    • :

    We should not be looking at the position in the table as our ultimate aim is to be first and we were 37 points behind City!

    We have so much money and a mentality that we have hardly anything to spend and can’t compete with others in the transfer market. Kroenke would need to invest too if we concerned about keeping up.

    It is annoying giving players like Bellerin another chance. There is no excuse for lack of effort. These players are paid so well and should have been proud to play for the club and given everything. Wenger defended them and they ended up contributing to him losing his job. Yes, there were so many other things Wenger f*cked up but they players did him no favours.
    The fans were at their wits end and some players seem to put more effort in taking selfies for social media.

    #1644679

    Goonerz_unite
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    • :

    Oracle you do half talk some nonsense sometimes. Aubs is the fastest player to get to 10 goals in the history of our club, and you think he’s past his best? I mean that alone is enough for most to realise you don’t really know what you’re talking about. Lacazette wasn’t as good this year as we had hoped, but I blame Wenger mostly for that. Every time he scored he would get subbed, and he was hardly ever allowed to complete 90 minutes. Just look at his end of season form though. He started to form a striking partnership with Aubs and began to score for fun again. He scored 17 goals in 39 appearances which is just under a goal a game. Not bad at all for someone who didn’t get consistent game time. As for Ozil… I can understand why he splits opinions, but part of the reason I’m excited to see him play under Emery is because I can see the team being built to suit his game. Even Mourinho used to say that he would only play him for 60 minutes if they were winning the game, and bring on someone who was better at defending.

    It’s all about the defence, and with todays signing of Lichsteiner I’m pleased to see we’ve brought in a proven winner. He may be 34, but he won’t be playing every game and he will help bring in organisation, even if it is just through training. Add a GK, two CBs and a DM and I’d be a very happy Gooner. There’s no need to be pessimistic.

    #1644687

    steve68
    Participant
    • :

    i’m not one of those who thinks just because wenger’s gone the
    grass is greener on the other side.if we sign the likes of
    fellani then we are an even bigger laughing stock than before
    and it tells you that we are just a 2nd rate football club.

    we have a quality manager who needs the funds to compete.if the
    likes of citeh,utd etc spend 150m+,then i cannot see any
    improvement in terms of our lge position of 6th last season.yeah
    we might be in games longer but form is temporary and class is
    permanent.have to be honest and admit as it stands right now i
    am not looking forward to the season at all because it will just
    be the same old,same old IMO.i’m off to florida for 3 weeks,so
    i hope we can get some decent signings in that will at least
    give me some optimism for the new season.

    hand on heart though,i cannot see us competing untill stan
    kroenke is forced to sell by the countless empty seats i can
    see happening if it is the same old same old.shame for the new
    manager who just doesn’t stand a chance while he’s at the helm
    of our great club.

    #1644690

    T_Adams
    Participant
    • :

    Steve, if players buy into Emery’s philosophy and he sorts out the defense we will be much better and it won’t be the same old stuff we’re used to. However that doesn’t mean we will be able to compete with City and Liverpool if we penny pinch. We were told that the move to this stadium was to compete with the best. Clearly that is not happening.

    #1644719
    The Oracle
    The Oracle
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    • :

    Goonerz_unite, Im afraid it’s you who is talking rubbish. Abamayeng is the ‘fastest to 10 goals in the clubs history’ SO WHAT. Has that changed anything? Did we finish any higher in the PL because of it? Did we win any trophies because of it? Take your time and think about it. Two years ago Abmayeng was sought after by every top club in Europe. Why do you think he has now joined Arsenal, a club not even in the CL? Where was the interest from Bayern? Where was the interest from top clubs in Spain, or the likes of Man City, Man Utd or his ex-manager Klopp at Liverpool. Why did Dortmund drop him several times earlier in the season. You really need to think before making silly statements.

    #1644761

    Goonerz_unite
    Participant
    • :

    Oracle I really wish there was a facepalm emoji for your last comment. You said he was passed it, and I said that he’s the fastest player to score 10 goals in the clubs history, and that’s in a team that was playing badly, and with a fanbase that was getting on the players backs. If that means he’s passed it, then I really worry about had bad our former strikers have been. As for why other top teams didn’t go for him, you can probably work that out for yourself. City don’t need him as they already have an abundance of attacking talent, United had just signed Sanchez, Barca don’t have the money after Dembele, Madrid are also already struggling to find places for Benzema, Ronaldo, Isco, Bale, Asenio, etc. It was also a £60million transfer during January. Clubs very rarely pay that sort of cash unless desperate, which we were. I’m not looking for an argument here though, but let’s just say that I’m sure we both hope you’re wrong. Surely you would like to be proved wrong with him and he becomes a great signing? Or do you want him to do badly?

    #1644765
    The Oracle
    The Oracle
    Participant
    • :

    Guunerz_unite, What I actually said, and I quote is ‘Abamayeng is possibly past his best’ so please get your facts right when making statements about what I did or did not say. Thats based on him needing u at Arsenal and not being wanted by one of Europes else or any club in the CL for that matter. Why did Dortmund let him go, and why did they constantly drop him earlier in the season. You claim City don’t need him, so youre saying that they wouldn’t want him if he was available which he was, Jesus is considered a better player then? United had signed Sanchez, he didnt cost anything as isnt an out and out striker. Barca dont have the money? Dahhhhhh how are they buying Griezmann then. Madrid are struggling to find places for Benzema, Ronaldo, Isco, Bale, Asensio? Dahhhhh three of those players are midfielders. You need to face facts he signed for Arsenal because no one else wanted him, why else would a ‘top player’ sign for a club not in the CL, certainly not by choice. You also need to accept we are light years behind the top clubs, we finished closer to the bottom side in the PL than the top side last season. If anything illustrates our demise that should. And signing the likes of Lichsteiner and Fellaini isnt going to change that.

    #1644838
    the specialone
    the specialone
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    • :

    Auba is certainly not past his best,but yes I do believe he has been over praised in his half season here.It’s happened many times,and i keep repeating a lot of people really want to ignore proper analysis.For me,geting those amount of goals is certainly impressive but it’s not what should be aspired from our striker.Because that’s where the analysis comes in.If you analyse,he’s failed to score against a single top team.Yes,half a season only but still.He didn’t make an impact against man city in the cup final,he’s failed to score in the big games all the goals he’s scored has been against average teams mostly in the bottom half.Not that I’m criticising him,I’m just stating some facts.

    In a purely hypothetical sense,I’d rather my striker score 38 goals in each of the 38 PL games,then distribute them throughout the season mostly against average teams.It’s more important how consistenly he scored than how many he scores.
    But that’s not to say auba can’t performed against big sides.He has a more than impressive record in the bundesliga scoring against top teams and in the CL scoring multiple times against madrid.So yes,I look forward to what he brings next season.

    Saying that,if it was upto me I really want an “Icardi” type striker here.Someone who ticks all the boxes.Strong,physical,pace,fox in the box everything.I remember me having a good debate with barber(I think) about which striker we should sign before last season.He was convinced on lacazette and even suggested ben yedder,I was always behind Icardi.Who’s had a stellar season scoring 29 goals in Serie A.If he’s available,I say go for him.

    #1644860
    Al The Gooner
    Al The Gooner
    Participant
    • :

    Goonerz, you’re wasting your breath mate.

    Wenger is gone, it’s a new era at Arsenal, we have no idea what players the new manager will bring in or what he’ll get out of the current ones. Will it all go wrong? Possibly, but it could also go very right and any normal person would at least enjoy the fact that, for once, we just don’t know, instead of being able to predict our season before the first ball has been kicked.

    Some people are only happy when they’re moaning and nothing we say, or Emery does, is going to change that. I have no doubt that Shifters was talking exactly this way in 96/97 and has been whinging ever since. Soon, I’m sure, he’ll be talking about the glory days under Wenger and how Emery will never manage an unbeaten season.

    #1644939
    The Oracle
    The Oracle
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    • :

    As usual AlTheGoon-Errrr totally wrong. I praised Wenger when he was doing the business but I realised before anyone else, long before you and that still rankles, that his ego had taken over and he had started to believe his own hype. We all know you changed horses only because everyone else had apart from the usual dullards and that you are a closet Wengie. You can clutch onto the belief that Arsenal are just behind the top clubs if you like but we are miles behind. It doesnt matter how good Emery is its going to take an awful lot to sort this mess out and its time people woke up and realsed it. And if it goes pear shaped I for one will NOT be blaming Emery, I know exactly who to blame, the man who should have been sacked 10 years ago.

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