Arsenal Vs Spuds

This topic contains 62 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by  Jeff 4 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #1780440

    Gooner54
    Participant
    • :

    One must remember that stats in their format have parameters that they measure. Before comparison of performance, it must be considered.
    In other words, a successful pass, is it from one player to another when both are not challenged by opponents. Therefore 20 tap tap passes under no pressure, would give a player better figures than a player making a one killer pass in a game.
    You have to analyze the content of what the measurement constitutes,ie; it’s value to the overall outcome.
    If stats on their own are used, we should Play Mustafi, afterall he has one of the lowest adverse totals. However, we know this in reality does not give a true indication of his benifit in the match.
    I have worked in the stats driven environment, it often paints a very different picture from the reality of the performance.
    The quote comes to mind. ‘There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'” With thanks to the remark attributed to Disraeli”. The last 10 minutes of the game show the poor tackles that gave the spuds opportunities to put undue pressure on the defense.
    In closing, I again reiterate that I have been a Xhaka fan in the past (Much to Shifty’s chagrin). For what it’s worth, I however, see him as a liability not suited to premier league football.There are others who must wake up too. He is not the only one, but I think if we get a stronger central mid, it would block the hole in front of the defensive back line, thus improving their performances.
    Gooner for life.

    #1780546
    the specialone
    the specialone
    Participant
    • :

    Gooner54 – I have never ever claimed that stats are the sole measurer of a performance and I’ll be the first to admit that they don’t tell the full story.Sure,they can be manipulated.But I want to use you as an example of only using convinient facts to fit your argument.I really don’t know why people have it in for Xhaka so much but here it goes.

    I completely agree that Number of passes can be manipulated as they can just be tippy tappy sideways or backwards passes.But are you going to deny that forward passes don’t matter?Xhaka for the poistion he plays which is basically the deepest midfielder,has made the most number of forward passes in the season 2018/2019 of an Arsenal player.When you’re making a forward pass,you’re trying to be direct and trying to make things happen than to simple just sideways or backwards pass to make up the numbers.
    Then,a lot of people have claimed that xhaka loses the ball a lot and cannot tackle for shit,basically offering absolutely “nothing”.You can go through the history of Arsenal posts to verify this claim.And Yet i have proved he’s way down the pecking order for most number of times disposessed,and he’s actually amongst the top 3 for most tackles put in last season.Now sure any stat can be manipulated but this is slightly manipulated at best.A tackle is a tackle wherever it’s on the pitch.
    Now most importantly,it’s the errors leading to a goal.In the season 2017/18,Xhaka made 3.In the season 2018/2019 Xhaka made 2 and this season up until now he’s made 1 single error.So if you were to study that,in a way there is improvement yet people are losing their shit.They don’t even want to give him room for improvement and that’s the problem.The haters only focus on his negatives and refuse to see the flaringly obvious positives he has to offer.There are fans out there that still back him you know and I’m glad.

    Apart from watching him play Live,I’ve never personally met him.He’s not my family member and no I have no personal touch or reason to side with him.I just call it like I see it.Sure he has error prone side to him(which as I’ve proved is improving) I still stand by what i’ve always said about him that those who refuse to see what he offers don’t understand football.

    But,It’s become glaringly obvious that once you’ve become the scapegoat it’s very tough to win back the fans.I’d say near impossible.You’re either a fan favourite or you’re a scapegoat.If you’re a fan favourite,people would only focus on your positives and completely ignore the negatives(for example not one person has talked about AMN being beaten by a holding midfielder and also failing to block the shot of lamela for the first goal).If you’re a scapegoat,you’ll be lambasted at every turn and people will only ever focus on your negatives.I think it’s completely unfair,it’s double standards and you simply can’t treat different players different ways for the same thing they would do.

    #1780565

    Gooner54
    Participant
    • :

    Not an argument, different view. The topic was, is use of statistics to pose debate points. You have yours and I mine. That we don’t agree is immaterial.
    I reiterate, that stats do not paint a full picture, therefore, I find them a poor substantive base to validate my viewpoint.
    There are many areas of concern regarding the composition of the side. AMN hasn’t proven himself in the position employed, and has been slated in my previous postings. I think there is a good player in him, but still to show. Again I feel that Xhaka is not the right fit for this team. We need a more mobile and better blocker in the centre, as there is a hole there. We play very narrow, allowing too much space on the flanks and when we cover these areas, the opponents come back in to press, the back four. I don’t think Willock is ready yet for this roll. Guendouzi has improved, and, in my uneducated opinion be a very good player in the future. If there is a taller Kante type player, I would buy him ASAP. I also like Leno, still young and raw.
    There, I have expanded on my views for you, so you can see my fuller feelings. I have purposely left the forwards alone, I will say, I like three and hope Pepe gets his sights adjusted and Ceb can be the link they need.
    Enjoy the break, see you soon. Gooner 54.

    #1780593

    steve68
    Participant
    • :

    tso.what are you on about?leno saves our bacon far more than the
    mistakes he’s made.the big difference is when leno makes a mistake
    it’s an honest one in terms of it’s not hot headed or irrational like
    xhaka.the proof’s in the pudding that xhaka isn’t good enough and
    WILL NOT learn from his mistakes.i used the word useless but i’ll
    agree with the word you used that’s he’s crap for our standards and
    where we want to be.you are in the minority of fans who love him
    for whatever reasons you see fit.leichester,wolves and everton have
    better midfield players than xhaka.i’ll back emery for now but if he
    sticks with that clown as captain and does not get rid of him,then
    i can see fans turning on him and i’ll be one of them.souness was
    one of the greatest midfield players ever and he don’t rate him at
    all.say’s it all don’t it.

    #1780660

    T_Adams
    Participant
    • :

    TSO, you’re using AMN as a scapegoat. As mentioned before, he is not a defender. He has made some stupid mistakes but when he gets beaten, be it by a midfielder, that is Arsenals’ fault for not having a natural right back as cover for Bellerin.

    You mention stats a lot. If Mustafi’s stats are good, why could we not offload him? There was little to no interest.

    Can you honestly see Xhaka even getting on the bench for Liverpool or City? If we are to try and compete with them, surely our players should at least be able to get on their bench.

    Also, in regards to the stats which you use for errors leading to a goal. I wonder if they include a player falling asleep and losing his marker? The stats also don’t pick up on mistakes where the opposition nearly scores – Either they fluff it or the player making the mistake gets bailed out with another player covering.

    #1780699
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :
    #1780730
    the specialone
    the specialone
    Participant
    • :

    steve68 – You’re post makes absolutely zero sense in terms of rationalism and logic.You’re doing nothing but using your opinion to back your post.You could say Messi is shit and expect me to believe you.Trying to Justify a player who’s made twice as many errors in a similar time frame by saying he saves a becan more?If I had so many shots coming to me,and didn’t save some of them I’d be embarrased to call myself a proffessional keeper.Leno is not good enough,I’ve already seen it.What i wanted to see from him was leadership,communication and organistaition with the defense.Yet,I’ve not seen him ONCE,NOT once communicate with his defense.When we concede,he looks clueless.absolutely clueless.With the whole game in front of him shouldn’t he atleast communicate with the players.

    T-adams – Making AMN a scapegoat?Hahahaha.I have to admit I did chuckle a bit.This really has to be icing on the cake.AMN not a right back?It dosen’t matter what position hes played,if two Proffessional managers(one of whom a legend of the game) think he has the attributes to play in that position and watch his train and study him every week,then you better believe it.He’s played there for almost two full seasons now and still proved not good enough,then that’s that.Also whichever position he plays,it’s not good enough to justify being beaten by a holding midfielder.You’re intention to completely ignore that and focus the spotlight on the most obvious is proving my point.But if your biased mind was capable of a deeper analysis you’d notice AMN being responsible for both the goals.Not that I’m condoning what Xhaka did,AGAIN.

    Steve68 – Posting an Article with a misleading headline is what I expected from the xhaka haters.In that article,Wright is quoted as saying that if he were at the club and Adams made the same lunge he’d be wondering what the hell he’s doing.I empathise with him and he’s speaking like an Arsenal legend.But there’s no mention of slamming his performance.Only that he get his game straight and stop making ill-timed errors which again I agree with.Then it’s backed up with some deluded fans who think The overglorified Holding should be given the captain’s armband.LOL.this person conceded 4 goals in his debut for is.Let’s ignore that.Clear favouritism.Proves my point.

    Lads,it’s become increasingly obvious that all of you guys have proved what I’ve been saying about favouritism and making scapegoats.It’s also come at a very unfortunate moment for Xhaka to make that first mistake of the season in a NLD hence the overreaction.I don’t condone his mistake,all I say is treat others the same way.In my mind,had AMN not been so pathetically beaten by winks,it wouldn’t have left other players exposed.Don’t ignore instances like this.
    However,first mistake of the season is not enough to warrant to be dropped.It’s ridiculous and proves the agenda against him.

    #1780748
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    TSO you a most infuriating and irritating person to speak with at times and what often causes issues……

    Laugh it up all you want, the general and overwhelming conceus of all arsenal fans are that Xhaka isnt good enough for our club, there are numerous reasons for this that have been glaringly obvious since day one, we could do better than him and should be looking to and once again early on yet another attrocious error of judegment against our bitter rivals AT HOME!!!

    when will you have the decency to allow other people an opinion that differs form yours without the usual 1000 word essay repeating the same nonsense?

    to sum, i respect your view on the player and disagree, you have given your reasons and i for one dont buy them and will continue to want Xhaka out of the club and upgraded…..

    you dont, the key difference is, i and others allow your point of view, we just dont agree

    no reason for such a lengthy thread over one player and all the nonses that goes along with it….

    lets move on to the next game all we have much more to discuss than one player…

    #1780774

    stev2bath1
    Participant
    • :

    SteveO – well said!

    #1780789
    the specialone
    the specialone
    Participant
    • :

    SteveO – The only infuriating people on here are you guys simply because you disagree with my lengthy analysis and evidence I’ve proved in favour of xhaka and how he’s made to look the unnecessary scapegoat.It’s the same old nonsense,where you’re accusing me of often causing issues.Have I abused anyone?No.Have i said you’re not allowed to have an opinion?No.So why are you making nonsensical shit up steveo.I became nice to you and was ready to forget the nonsense of the past but again you’re trying to bring it up.There’s a reason why you aren’t moderator anymore.

    Basically,what you want me to do is agree with you guys the Xhaka is terrible And I’ve provided sufficient evidence he isn’t.You say there is a general and overwhelming Consnsus that xhaka is shite.Wait,Are you asking me to jump on the bandwagon?Because i won’t.I actually have a very strict analysis of my own.Which involves treating all players the same and not protecting fan favourites like an AMN or a Leno showing utter biasedness.
    Football is a game of opinion,I certainly have a different one.And I’m even backing it up with facts.You disagree about xhaka it’s fine.Did I ever say you’re not allowed to disagree with me?Just because I have a different opinion than you dosen’t make mine or you’rs right or wrong.Let’s move on now.I’ve said all I want about xhaka and I hope every player is treated the same way from now on.Even the beloved,Overrated,Overglorified Likes of holding,AMN etc.No excuses.

    #1780795
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    FFS

    no i dont want you to agree with me, but what would be NICE is if YOU had enoguh respect to stop repeating 1000 word essays on the one player no else likes, if you disagree with us as you do, say that, as we have said we disagree with you, but you cant leave it there and once again…..

    ” simply because you disagree with my lengthy analysis and evidence”

    this is your analysis and “evidence” and it has not changed my humble opion on the matter and the fact it has not leads yout o carryon banging the same drum and calling out ALL ARSENAL fans for looking for scapegoats and other tired things….

    we disagree lets move on!

    honestly i stop reading you “evidence and analysis” becasue they arestill only your subjective view that clearly wont change as mine wont the other way, im not calling you out as being wrong or a bad arsenal fan as you slate the rest of us, what is it you dont get about debate and others views and ideas?

    seriosuly dude lets not turn this into another one of thos threads, lets move on your views are abundantly clear as are the rest of the very fans left posting here…

    #1780796
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    there isnt much either group can do to persuade the toher so why try, we have our view you have yours and its been very well expressed so time to agree to disagree, not concider yorself better than the rest of us or slate ALL ARSENAL fans…especially when you have already shown your inablity to understand the local rivalry between us and the spuds….

    #1780813
    the specialone
    the specialone
    Participant
    • :

    steve0 – So when there is a genral concesus on here that Xhaka loses the ball a lot,and I contradict that by listing OFFICIAL PL STATS,FROM THE OFFFICIAL PL WEBSITE.You say that view is Subjective.Goodness me,I give up.
    I’ve not called anyone out,they are replies to people who are basically making a scaegoat of Xhaka,and in the same breath protecting the likes of AMN for making mistakes.
    For the sake of this thread,I’ll leave it here.Let’s move on now.

    #1780842

    steve68
    Participant
    • :

    tso.so i suppose you forgot leno’s great save while it was 1-0 did
    you?just in case you forgot it was the one from erickson and fans
    who were behind that goal said it was a terrific save.what about
    his great double save at wembley and his heroics at citeh.yes,you got
    it,big game and he’s performed in most of them.i’ll ask you for
    the 100th time now,name me 3 top games where crappy xhaka has played
    for us and when was he ever influencial in big games.at least leno
    can say he’s performed in them while that useless xhaka hasn’t even
    given us 8/10 performances.look at the teams xhaka has been responsible
    for the mistakes and you will see that they are bum average sides that
    he shouldn’t be making those mistakes in.i’ll take leno,niles over
    crappy xhaka any day of the week.THE WORST CAPTAIN IN MODERN HISTORY
    AND NOT FIT TO WEAR THE AFC SHIRT.guarantee you that if it was put to
    a vote 90% of gooners would want him out.it took you a while to
    admit mustafi’s deficiencies but i’m sure you’ll catch up with the
    rest of eventually lol.

    #1780850

    Madmaxsdaddy
    Participant
    • :

    TSO – I’m not sure you are going to change any minds here including mine. What I would say is that given that the only posters left on this board is pretty much the four or five posters that are commenting and its clear you aren’t going to change their mind I reckon this thread has run it’s course. It’s not a court of law – we don’t need lengthy analysis or evidence. Let’s just move on.
    I promise I’ll scapegoat the next player that makes consistent mistakes (leading to goals) or gives away penalties.

    #1780861
    the specialone
    the specialone
    Participant
    • :

    Max – Not trying to change anyone’s mind mate.Again,I’ve mentioned that.However,yes I do not want scapegoats to be made.It’s been happening to far too long now.People have absolutely ruined Mustafi’s mentality,now we have a player who’ll be earning free wages on the sidelines because Emery knows if he steps onto the pitch he’d be absolutely lambasted at every turn.Emery realised that and that’s why he put him on the market.And now,They’re trying to do the same with xhaka.Anyhow,for the last time All I ask is for all players to be treated equally.You cannot lambast xhaka for the tackle he put in and not give AMN the same treatement for being beaten by winks.Simple Point.

    #1780911

    T_Adams
    Participant
    • :

    TSO, very selective replies. You have blown up when I said that you’re using AMN as a scapegoat but failed to address other points highlighting where stats don’t give a good picture and if you think Xhaka would get on Liverpool or City’s bench.

    Just because Wenger and Emery have played AMN at right back doesn’t mean he is a natural right back. He shouldn’t be getting beaten by a midfielder and I don’t think he’s good enough at RB but he’s still not a natural defender.

    #1780940
    the specialone
    the specialone
    Participant
    • :

    T_adams – Not selective at all.I’d be repeating the same thing again and be accused of doing so by the Xhaka haters.Using AMN as a scaoegoat?Seriously,are you listening to yourself.Even after clearly pointing out how he was ALSO responsible for both our goals.Then you ask me Whether he’d get on Liverpool or city’s bench.Well what exactly would that prove?But even If I were to answer that no more than one or 2 players from this entire squad would get into their bench.So point?Then You say it dosen’t matter what proffessional managers have done.Ok,First of all you don’t know anything about AMN as you or I don’t watch him train and play everyday.Secondly,If I have the attributes to play in a position and been training for it for a couple of years then I better get used to it.But just for the sake of your argument,you think getting beaten by winks at RB is any different than getting beaten by him if he started in a midfield position.I mean at the end of the day he IS getting beaten by winks isn’t he.

    However,Putting aside any subjective views,Be it yours or Mine on Xhaka.I’d just like to ask you and Mr.steve68 one question.Actually any xhaka hater for that matter.And this will be my last say as I’d like to move on from this topic.
    There have been quotes from you guys labelling Xhaka “Useless” and even the “worst captain in Modern History.Then I’d like to ask you the following questions,and this again this is completely putting aside anyone’s single minded views on his on this forum.If he is as bad as you claim.

    1.Why have 2 Seperate Proffessional Arsenal managers played him in 30+games for every season he’s been here,consistently?
    ok even if We ignore that.
    2.Why does a nation that is ranked 11th in FIFA world rankings and even reached the UEFA nations league name him their starting eleven Constantly?
    3.As far as his captaincy goes and being the worst captain in modern history,How the bloddy hell has he managed to Lead an Entire nation that is Ranked 11th in the world at the mere age of 26.Relatively,a very young age to be captain.

    I want you to answer these questions just to understand your mentality.Mind you,these are proffessionals views we are talking about not yours or mine.
    Don’t try and twist and turn this around or defelect these questions or ignore them.Simply answer them one by one.

    I hope it will be a logical and sensible reply.

    #1781062

    T_Adams
    Participant
    • :

    TSO, what are you on about. Do you even bother to read posts properly?
    I said AMN shouldn’t have been beated by a midfielder and you’ve gone on and on about that again.

    I asked the following and you still haven’t commented as stats may be hiding more of Xhaka’s errors and they don’t tell you everything:

    You mention stats a lot. If Mustafi’s stats are good, why could we not offload him? There was little to no interest.

    Also, in regards to the stats which you use for errors leading to a goal. I wonder if they include a player falling asleep and losing his marker? The stats also don’t pick up on mistakes where the opposition nearly scores – Either they fluff it or the player making the mistake gets bailed out with another player covering.

    It’s a fair question to ask, since you think Xhaka whether you think he would get on the bench for Liverpool or City as you think he is so good. You think only 2 of our players would get on their bench? Laca, Auba, Cellabos, Pepe? Which ones?

    #1781081
    the specialone
    the specialone
    Participant
    • :

    Well I knew you were going to deflect the questions that I asked.And the questions you are asking me are very very subjective.I’ve already given an objective justification in defense of Xhaka.Since you’ve failed to answer the questions that I’ve asked,i’m just going to move on now as I’ve previously said.For the sake of this forum.

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