Bravo Ed Woodward

This topic contains 117 replies, has 21 voices, and was last updated by theMartial Art theMartial Art 5 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 61 through 80 (of 118 total)
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  • #1665223
    Ika
    Ika
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    • :

    CM please don’t this to yourself mate.

    Pep used Ortimendi and Stones for half of last season 2 players that were full of weaknesses and ciached and instilled confidence in them.

    What your trying to say is that Jose can sign players like Bailly and Lindeloff and then replace them straight away when things don’t work out then you wonder why we have so much deadwood.

    All the signings Pep has made has been with an idea of where he wants the player to play and where they’re weak in ie buying 27/28 full backs to replace aging ones. I don’t see Pep buying players to dismantle a part of the team that is working ie signing Sanchez not to play right but in same position as Rashford and Martial.
    Let me remind you in 2004 we signed Ronaldo year before and Rooney. Chelsea spending millions were dominating the league. We then added just 3 players Saha Vidic and Evra and we built a team slowly that dominated.

    You can’t just keep throwing the cheque book at it Jose has signed 11 players and he needs to start coaching he saw something he liked in Bailly and Lindeloff when he signed them so how about you give them some confidence instead of telling everyone you want to replace them.

    #1665225
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
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    Age matters because …

    MONEY … if the player is relatively cheap then age doesn’t matter. Like a disposable razor, you get a couple of shaves then throw it away and buy another. No problem. But can you do that if expensive. If you spent a fortune on a Rooney, Rio, Keane etc. you get 8 – 10+ years out of them. That makes the cost per year cheap. But if you get a old player, then have to replace after 2 years the effective annual cost becomes high.

    TITLES … if the team is almost complete, the addition of the oldie may win you the title. But you’ve only got 1-2 years shot at it. After that, as age sets in, the player is no longer an asset and can be a liability. And bear in mind often you cannot expect the player to deliver in his first season. He needs a year to settle in. If you have a younger player it means there are more years, more shots at the title in which he can make the difference.

    BLOAT … If the player is signed on 4 year contract, gives you 2 good years then performance wanes, you end up with a second stringer on hefty wages taking up a squad place that could be better used for an upcoming player.

    #1665254

    CM
    Participant
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    Ika-

    Jose wanted to buy a centre back who could play from the back. He does not have one like that. To sum things up in one of Fergusons final games he played De Gea, Valencia, Jones, Smalling, Evra, in the FA Cup final Jose played De Gea, Valencia, Jones, Smalling and Young. One of Citys final games when they won the league in 2014, Pelegrini played Hart, Zabeleta, Kolorov, Kompany and Lescott. Last season Pep played Ederson, Walker, Kompany, Otamendi and Delph. The last 10 years United have invested about 150m on Goalkeepers and defenders. In the last 2 years Pep has spent 260m on defenders and goalkeepers. Lets not forget the money City spent on defenders before him i.e. Mangala and Otamendi. City are media darlings, for every successful player, they bought a number of flops before him, it is just no one bats an eye lid.

    #1665258

    Mike2005
    Participant
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    @cm The timing of it is not good. We should have hired a director of football at the start of the year, and had him work on summer targets with Jose. To leak stories about wanting to sign players that fit into our “philosophy” and that we’re appointing a DoF days after we’ve missed our targets and the transfer windows closes sounds like we’re scrambling to cover up or correct mistakes.

    I’m also a bit concerned as to who a DoF would be at United. Would it be someone who represents the mysterious “DNA” of the club, signing attacking players, wingers and developing youth talent. If that is the case, how will Jose fit into that strategy, a manager renowned for being defensively astute, playing on the counter-attack and deploying one up top.

    #1665268

    CM
    Participant
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    Mike

    Jose and DoFs have not really got on in the past. If it someone who knows the club in and out, along with what it represents, then fair enough.

    Woodward claims United are some financial power house, so what is he worried about. Has he regretted appointing someone who has the balls to stand up to him, expose him in public. Look at Uniteds net spend during the summer window after they have qualified for the CL under Woodward-

    2013- 27.5m
    2015- 28m
    2018- 50m

    Thats under 3 different managers. When the club are desperate to get in to the CL they are happy to throw money, when they have reached that goal, then they are not.

    In

    #1665269

    CM
    Participant
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    Mac

    I agree with that. The reasons behind buying someone old at a large fee does not add up, but I am not against it if it means winning a few relevant trophies. If you look at United signings under Jose, the number of players he bought under 26 out do the number of players he bought over 26. Problem with United is their spine. Peps spine last season had Fernandinho, Silva, Kompany and Aguero. They were there when they last won the league. United had Matic, Pogba, Lukaku, Bailly/Smalling. The age of the players in Pep City spine are 32, 31, 31 and 29. The age of the players in Jose Uniteds spine are 29, 24, 24 and 27. Jose knows experienced players and players with a winning mentality are limited at United. Even Ferguson turned to Schmeichel(28), Bruce(28), Robson and Cantona(27) in order to help United win the league after 26 years. Once you have got that going, everything else just comes in to place.

    #1665275

    hookeddevil
    Participant
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    Does anyone on here think that Alderweireld, Maguire, Godin or Boateng are the missing piece of the jigsaw that would turn the current side in to league winners or CL challengers?
    RVP was a missing piece that allowed SAF to take a title. I’m not convinced that any of the CB’s mentioned above would have that effect this season.

    #1665283

    CM
    Participant
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    Hookeddevil

    Not sure about challenging for the title, but they would be a massive upgrade to what United have got now. If United sold Smalling, Jones, Rojo and brought in Alderweireld, Maguire and Godin/Boeteng, then it would be a good move. You have your experience and leaders there, something United have lacked since Rio and Vidic.

    #1665285

    Scholsey
    Participant
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    They could be the difference between competing and finishing 5th if Bailly and Lindleof got injured. Who else would you play for a large part of the season Smalling, Jones or Rojo?

    #1665296

    happyhurling
    Participant
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    Jose just needs to find the right balance between defense and attack, i think he has the personnel – just needs the right system. Agree with Hooked that signing a CB probably wouldn’t have solved the issue that we just didn’t score enough goals last season. If we can get back to those 4-0 winning ways then happy days.

    I see Sanchez as being key to a lot of what happens at United this season. He’s looked sharp and fit in pre-season but at Leicester he was back to his old wasteful self. His impact in the final third can be amazing but he needs to be taught that losing the ball, especially during an attack, puts the team under massive pressure. I hope Jose and the staff are working on that with him because he hasn’t improved that aspect of his game in any way since he arrived.

    #1665325

    fatrooney
    Participant
    • :

    I don’t see what’s wrong in mourinho wanting to sign another centre back. Bailly has been injured half of the time he has been with us. Smalling Jones and rojo are shit leaving inexperienced lindelof who is not commanding. Even if bailly played regularly we still need another defender. As for mourinho should stick to coaching, let me tell you can’t coach jones smalling and rojo they are fucking shit. Jose wants Sandro as left back and os told go coach luke shaw, Yeh this is how we will close the gap to pep.

    As for ageing players, lindelof bailly pogba lukaku Fred are not even in their prime. Ibra is gone leaving sanchez and matic only two players who are touching 30. We’re a young team and probably could with some experience. Some of you guys act as if it’s your money. We need to compete and with 9 players added in 3 years to eat lvg left and compared to peps 20 players added is not going to be enough

    #1665331

    hookeddevil
    Participant
    • :

    Personally, I don’t see those CB’s as being a massive upgrade on what we currently have. If Godin and Alderweireld were younger then they’d be an upgrade (considering the numbers involved and the potential for them to need time to settle).
    No idea if MacGuire is actually a better defender or not, certainly I think he’s got as much chance as Bailly and Lindelöf in making it and that to me is too much of a punt for £60 to £80m. Ignoring the WC, would there have been any interest in signing him?
    Boateng is not my cup of tea and usually when Bayern are willing to sell a player is past their prime.
    Actually think it would have been a much better investment to find a RW and another FB.

    #1665338

    CM
    Participant
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    Hookeddevil

    In a few years time Rojo will be 30, Smalling will be 30, Jones will be 28. All 3 have been given years of opportunities to make a grade at United and have failed. 2 always being injured. If United had Alderweireld and Maguire, along with Bailly, they would have 3 very good options. I agree about Boeteng.

    If you look at some of the best defenders in the world today, they are in their 30s with the exception of Varane and Van Dijk. Ramos, Cheillini, Silva, Kompany, Bonucci.

    #1665340

    Scholsey
    Participant
    • :

    If we put performances, age & entertaining football to one side, I believe Mourinho was trying to buy players that would have made a more solid unit.

    Willian and a CB who can play most of the season would have potentially given him the work rate and experience required to put more pressure on Man City. Having Bailly miss half a season and Jones/Smalling stepping in won’t actually help his game plan.

    #1665344
    Alfie07
    Alfie07
    Participant
    • :

    I think he wanted a CB he could depend on to then allow him to attack more.

    Alderweireld would have partnered Bailly and improved the defence. His experience would have helped Bailly and Shaw.

    I’m not a fan of Harry Maguire, and £80m is a joke fee for him.

    If we now are looking for younger players who are world class or who have the potential to be world class then we will need to get in early and gamble on players.

    It’s all well and good saying we’d spend £160m on Mbappe after what he has done, but PSG did that a year ago before he’d done much at all. We’d have been called crazy to do that deal last summer, but that’s the sort of deal you now need to do – and then find a place for him in the team.

    #1665346

    CM
    Participant
    • :

    Agree Alfie

    In regards to Maguire, I believe he wants a settled centre back pairing, after 2 years something Jose has struggled to develop at United for one reason or another i.e. injuries or players struggling to adapt. Where ever Jose has managed previously he didn’t have this problem Chelsea- Carvalho and Terry, Inter Samuel and Lucio, Real Madrid Pepe and Ramos, Chelsea Terry and Cahill.
    Maguire is just a realistic option.

    #1665348
    Ika
    Ika
    Participant
    • :

    CM

    You say quote.

    Jose wanted to sign a CB that could play out from the back he does not have one like that.

    Now your baffling me.

    Didn’t Jose spend £70 million on Bailly and Lindeloff only to disregard them for Jones and Smalling for all our big games last season.

    Like I said your baffling me by your logic you by a player it don’t work out you dump him and bring in another player to replace him leaving the squad clattered with deadwood.

    Let’s be fair the only 2 defenders we were linked with who would have improved a defence I might add kept most clean sheets last season was Godin and Auderwerald but age was definitely against them and those 2 are not known for bringing the ball out so again what you say is baffling.

    #1665349
    Ika
    Ika
    Participant
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    Jose post match comments saying Leicester out spent us so we need to get used to smaller clubs giving is more of a game as they now have same level of players.

    What a load of BS.

    Did Leicester buy Evertons best player
    Did they buy Arsenals best player
    Did they have a world cup winner in their line up
    Did they buy Chelsea most experienced DM
    Did they buy the budesliga player of the year then ditch him
    Did they spend £70 million on a CB pairing only to ditch them and throw your toys out the pram when you couldn’t replace them

    No they sold their best player and used the money to strengthen the squad in weaker areas something I would love to see Jose do.

    #1665353

    CM
    Participant
    • :

    Ika

    I am sorry but my logic is fine.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.squawka.com/en/news/10-of-the-best-ball-playing-centre-backs-in-football/638760%3famp-on

    Article is a few years old, but here is a list of the best ball playing defenders, Boeteng and Alderweireld are on the list.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/harry-maguire-proved-remaining-doubters-1778378.amp

    Here is what Rio said about Maguire-

    It seems like Maguire, a ball-playing defender like me, is doing something similar.

    You’re right about Godin, but he was a last minute target in order for Woodward to save face. Yet Woodward was left humiliated again when Godin’s agent used United in order for his client to recieve a better contract. I don’t understand why Woodward should get a pat on the back for that. But I would have taken Godin without hesitation at United considering he had a €20m release clause.

    It was evident the type of defender United wanted considering the names that were in the mix. Also I doubt Lindelof and Bailly were ever going to get dumped. Smalling, Jones or Rojo were the obvious casualties if a defender was bought.

    #1665354

    CM
    Participant
    • :

    Also Ika, your views on Jose have changed since I posted this, I knew Jose flaws and more than happy to have him at the club. He has won 3 PL titles, that is more than any current PL manager. He is winner, he knows what he is doing. As long as he is Uniteds manager, I continue to back him.

    Why Mourinho?

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