Bravo Ed Woodward
This topic contains 117 replies, has 21 voices, and was last updated by 
theMartial Art 5 years, 8 months ago.
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I also dont understand why Jose bought Miki on the back of 1 good season. Miki struggled under Klopp and we all know how brilliant he is with attacking players. But Jose has had some success with experienced player, for example Matic and Zlatan. The jury is still out on Sanchez imo. I believe Jose just wants a bit of experience in defence in order to help the younger defenders a little when pressure is on etc.
Mac, i’ll Try one more time to get through to you and if you haven’t grasped it by then I will give up and let you tire yourself out, but i’ll ignore your petty insults and name calling.
In your post at 11:49am you wrote:
Jose signed Bailley Lindelof, if they do not look like making the grade then that must be down to Jose and questions must be asked about his judgement.This is in response to whether or not Jose should be allowed to sign Alderweireld, Maguire or Godin. All are defenders. It is clear that you are suggesting that as you feel he nicked up with Bailley and Lindelof then he shouldn’t be allowed to sign another CB. I simply suggested that signing an established PL player is deferent to younger players from outside the PL. no idea why you got upset over that.
The majority of your other posts seems to be overly angry nonsense where you often end up shifting the goal posts or making things up and is not worthy of a response.
CM – apparently miki was ‘established’, whereas there is the argument that he only had one decent season in him before we signed him.
Same player, same scenario, two different opinions entirely. Funny old game.
This moves off topic a bit but there are other areas of the team that need strengthening before CB. Valencia or Darmian is still the bloody RB and Young is the LB (optimistically Shaw will metamorphosise into the world class LB it was hoped he’d be, but I’m not holding my breath). If I was going to drop a large pile of cash on fixing the current defence I’d start out wide first. I think the need for reliable FB’s that can cross a ball far outweighs the need for new CB’s. I still can’t fathom how Mourinho puts up with Valencia. The CB’s we have at the moment are put under more pressure than is necessary due to having no protection from the converted wingers playing as FB’s! Converted wingers as full backs at one of the richest clubs in the world, that is ridiculous!
Absolutely hookeddevil – not sure if Shaw did something over the summer which changed Jose’s mind on him, or if we couldn’t agree a fee for a replacement.
He got off to a great start though, so let’s hope it’s the former!
It certainly is Alfie.
Good post hookeddevil.
@Alfie – You are choosing to read into my comment something that is not there then proceeding to argue against it.
All acknowledge Alderweireld as a very good player and most agree Maguire is decent, an improvement on what we have but not top class. Doubtless JM thinks the same. There is no argument about judgement on ability.
It is his strategic judgement that I question. If he needs an experienced CM why didn’t he get a 26-28 year old instead of signing both Bailley Lindelof. Surely it would make more sense to sign the established player first, let him learn JM tactics, adapt, settle in etc. THEN get the younger players.
It is the strategic judgement of spending 70m on ‘ones for the future’ when the team did not have a top quality first choice CM then later deciding he needs one while he waits for his signings to come good.
PS1 – Personally I don’t think JM or many modern managers are any good at talent spotting.
PS2 – I challenged you to explain what it is I said that is nonsense but you haven’t.
@cm – I understand what you are saying but disagree with the strategy. You seem to be arguing as if I am opposed to signing a CB. That’s not the case. The debate is the wisdom of signing a 29-30 year old at high price. If we were talking about a cheapo like Blanc was, then fair enough. But we’re not. You totally disregard money.
AND I don’t accept the old potato of the veteran signing somehow improving the younger players. That was said about Zlatan and Rashford.
What’s all this about “bringing on” Bailley & Lindelof as if its a certainty they will be our long term CM pairing. Some fans said the same about Smalling Jones. If a player cannot progress as expected under the coaches then forget him. Your “short term fix” is based on the assumption they will make it. btw – The short term fix will mean less game time for Bailley/Lindelof. What is the effect of less game time on player progress.
Personally, I’d go with Bailley Lindelof as the CM pairing this season and if they don’t prove themselves beyond doubt go for permanent long term solution in the summer.
HookedDevil – Yeah good post. I was reading yesterday, again, about the difference in circumstances presented to Pep and to Jose. The general point being the disappointment in how much credit United fans are giving Pep over Mourinho. I’ll paraphrase;
There are hundreds of threads and posts about inherited squads and amount of money spent on new players which is all too easily ignored. Pep wanted back-up options for wingers so City spent £100m on B. Silva and Mahrez. Jose can’t get his first choice right winger, so plays Mata there. Pep wanted new full backs, he got 3. Jose plays with 33 year old ex-wingers there. When Pep invested in the wrong players, (Bravo, Stones etc) he bought new players in those positions. Whereas Jose is told to make Bailly and Lindelof better.
In short – Pep was given everything to build ‘his’ squad (as well as having a world class spine to begin with in Kompany, Silva, De Bruyne & Aguero). Jose hasn’t had that.
We saw how good Pep was in his first season with players he didn’t pick.It’s been said a lot in the last week but Jose either needs to be backed or sacked (or cracked!!) in the market, to get the players he wants. Pep has been and that’s why City have the best team in the league. There’s no way we can be expected to challenge for the title when we’re not competing for the best squad.
Having said that i stuck £50 on United to win the league before the Leicester game. Returns £600!!!
😉Mac-
Fair comment. I know you’re not implying United should not be buying a defender.
IMO if we rely on Bailly and Lindelof more, then we could end up with another Smalling and Jones, but we could also end up with a Rio and Vidic. Saying that Rio’s career did not really kick on until he was 27 and had a reliable defensive partner in Vidic. I believe there is a reason why Ferguson kept the old guard for so long, it helped the youngsters develop and become more mature. It worked woth Robson, Schmeichel, Bruce, McClair, Pallister, Irwin, then Giggs, Scholes, Keane, and others. Pep is utilising his old guard in a similar manner. The problem with United current old guard who have been at the club for a while is they are just not good enough. They have been given enough opportunities with no success.
@cm – I look at players like Rio and at age 23 it was clear he was a class act. That’s why we paid record fee for him. So for players like Bailly Lindelof, I say let’s give them their chance for glory. If they prove themselves, great. And if not, then let’s get rid asap. Not hang on to them for years like Smalling Jones in the hope they magically turn good and deluding ourselves that defenders sometimes come good late in life.
Fergie kept the old guard for so long because the Glazers kept the pursestrings tight. Keeping players longer means you don’t have to replace.
Yes veteran players can help younger players, not that Rio Vidic did much for Smalling Jones, but there’s a difference between a veteran whose spent years at United and one who spent years at other clubs and has yet to establish himself at United.
Someone made a good point yesterday. If we’d have signed Bakayoko, there’s no way we would have shipped him out to AC Milan so soon. He’d still be at the club!
They kept Drinkwater though!
True! Although i think they’d sell pretty quickly if anyone offered.
@happyhurling – I may be wrong but it seems like you are spinning, almost flip flopping. You invariably big up United players and play down City players to the point of ridiculing many of them. Yet now you seem to be suggesting Pep’s praise is underserved because he has better players (for his style) and Jose deserves more praise because he’s been forced to use players who are not good enough for the team & style he wants to have.
There’s no argument about Pep largely getting who he wanted BUT is it true to say JM hasn’t got what he wanted. This summer its true but that doesn’t affect the praise or lack thereof given to the managers for last season. Are you saying the previous 2 summers Jose didn’t get the players he wanted. It maybe true of a particular player eg Perisic but to offset that he got Sanchez, which was an indulgence given we had Martial Rashford on the left already.
And as I recall in previous windows JM declared he was happy with his team. He didn’t moan to the media about not getting his targets before. At the end of last summers window he boasted to the press that while other clubs would be buying in January he would not need to. (but did anyway hahaha). Jose wasn’t forced to beg Fellaini to stay or keep the deadwood he has.
Seems you are remixing your narrative to redistribute praise in the light of recent events that had no bearing on last season.
Mac – Not sure what you mean by i ridicule the City players? They walked the league last season so any sort of ridicule would be quite silly wouldn’t it?
Jose said that United have to do things differently to City. We have to develop and evolve the squad “in a balanced way” he said. He then alluded to Pep signing new full backs for 50m each and a new GK. And when he didn’t like that GK he then bought a new one. Jose hasn’t done that has he?
I also don’t understand this narrative of “begging Fellaini” to stay. We offered a contract, he shopped around, he negotiated terms, Jose wanted him to stay, he wanted to stay. In the end he signed the contract and stayed. Don’t know why it has to be put down as a negative – “oh we begged Fallaini to stay”. Begged? Really?@happyhurling – Maybe I didn’t follow you. It seemed to me you were saying Pep was getting too much praise and Jose not enough. Correct? And your reasoning was the Pep got all the players he wanted and Jose didn’t. Correct?
I’m agreeing Pep got the players he wanted but saying up until this summer, didn’t JM get (and keep) the players he wanted.
Pep is not just getting praise for winning the PL, he’s getting it for the manner in which they did it and the all round atmosphere in the team ie mentality, motivation etc. And you have to acknowledge that having good players is no guarantee of success. They need to be managed managed well also.
JM is not getting much praise due to the style we played, the below expectation performances of his signings and team as a whole. Add to that the sense that there is unhappiness in the team and JMs behaviour ie press statements etc. Fans are pleased we ended up 2nd. but the CL exit and underwhelming FA cup final caused disappointment. And despite your claims we are making progress, heading in the right direction etc. many fans, pundits & press aren’t convinced.
My point about Fellaini wasn’t just about Fellaini. Jose has had 3 windows and we still have players many regard as deadwood. Not having a LvG style clear out is a cause for disappointment among many fans. It may be the board would not support him having a clear out but Jose never said anything, quite the opposite he said he was happy with his squad.
I said begging, because JM didn’t just say he’d be happy for him to stay, he made several statements to the press talking about how Fellaini is key to his plans and how he’s tried to convince him to stay.
Tell me why JM deserves more praise.
@cm – Jose wanted to buy a centre back who could play from the back
You mean a ball-playing centre back like Lindelof? In addition to Bailly and ‘the ball playing’ Lindelof, we have Rojo, Smalling and Jones for the CB position. Why on earth Mourinho think of having another CB without getting rid of the chuckle brothers? If Jones and Smalling have been the main problem in Uniteds defence, he should have move em on. He’s had five transfer windows to do so. If I were in charge of United I’d have sold them seasons ago. Pep released Zabaleta, Sagna, Clichy, Kolarov, Mangala in one window.
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