Career defining month for LVG and Rooney?.
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2017 can’t come around soon enough! Hopefully the wife can persuade Van Boring to retire a year early.
And lets bring in guardiola..NOT ANCELOTTI… carlos old and almost end of hea career
I love Rooney like crazy and I really wish that he regains his deadly precision before the goal. But am leaning towards him being replaced by Peirera in the 2nd half regardless the result. It would be totally unwise to abruptly confine to the bench England’s highest goal scorer, worthy captain, the face of Manchester United, a man that labored so much to stay the course & keep the ship afloat in the storming days of Moyes (Wazza alone stood firmly by Moyes, determined to make things work. Some of us would NEVER forget the picture of Rooney running all over the pitch, box to box, attacking, defending, assisting, doing all he can in EVERY game, while RvP et al. were strolling about like royalty, waiting for the ship to sink) a man that has played in every position without a moment’s complaint or hesitation. Louis will have to ease Rooney out of the spotlight in the most tactical and dignified manner.
As for Louis, you would have to be a fool not to see that he is building something special for the future. Damian & Schneiderlin have been rocks who have filled positions well needed for 6-7 years, Schweinsteiger has proved the “too old brigade” wrong and was a snip for a worldclass winner at 6.5m, Martial no matter what he cost has showed glimpses of his composure and talent within the biggest game he could of been thrown in at, Smalling and Shaw have been two of the best defenders within the league so far this season, De Gea is staying, Falcao has yet to miraculously be reborn now since apparently being “mistreated” by LVG, and all the players that needed to go from over the last 3 years have been sold, now if you compare with transfer dealings of the other top clubs i think you find that it pretty good news for United. Let’s give Louis a chance atleast to the end of the season
@the Martial Arts – Your love of Rooney is making you present a fantasy picture of him, You describe Rooney in Moyes season as if he were some sort of Roy of the Rovers keeping the team afloat. Truth is Wayne has been on the wane for several years,
You talk a “man that has played in every position without a moment’s complaint or hesitation.” but wasn’t being played in midfield the cause of his spat with Fergie and his transfer request or threat.
As for lvg “building something special for the future” the only thing I can see him building is his retirement nestegg. And as with Rooney your evident love of LvG causes you to distort reality in attempt to support the King Louis hoax.
Lets dissect your points:
1. Darmian wasn’t a rock against Arsenal. He did a job against lesser opponents but lets see him against better opponents. And it takes more than 8 games to be described as a “rock”. I support after 10 games you will be calling him legend.
2. Same applies to your 7 games rock Schneiderlin. He is such a rock that he didn’t start against Arsenal. And his performances have been far from great.
3. Schweinsteiger has proved that you’re never too old, never too slow to fit into a lvg team. And doesn’t it surprise you that canny Bayern (remember Hargreaves) should sell him for a song. Maybe not after seeing his pace and injuries.
4. Martial has shown “glimpses” and may be one for the future. But as we know or should know one swallow does not make a spring and glimpses do not make a star.At present he shows he has much to learn.
5. Shaw was injured for much of last season. Now he’s injured again and out for this season. You are seeking to elevate him to a success story based on few performances against lesser clubs.
6. Smalling was far from stellar against Arsenal. Lets not rush to elevate him to stardom. He’s certainly no Rio or Vidic.
7. De Gea stayed thanks to RM’s incompetence and no thanks to LvG. DDG refused to say if he has a release clause so you may be jumping the gun to assume he’s staying. We do know DDG was upset with lvg treatment of him and Valdes.
8. Whether Falcao performs at Chelsea is irrelevant. LvG could not get him performing at United and LvG is the man who signed the dud.
9. Depay is making the headlines but for the wrong reasons. He went missing at Arsenal and is dropped. Hardly the road for the future is it.
10. Seems LvG has fallen out with Rojo and he may be offloaded.
11. Herrera continues to be excluded as rumours abound lvg may sell him.#
12. Blind showed his limitiations against Arsenal.
As I see it, lvg has sold or loaned out pretty much all of SAF team and replaced them with a mixed bag potpourri of players none of which we can say are automatic first choices or have consistantly delivered good performances. The team still have no spine, no core of key players. The strikeforce is weak, the central defence is unstable and far from being a rock. The center midfied is unstable.
You say “Let’s give Louis a chance at least to the end of the season” yet in another post you accept he should be subject to scrutiny and criticism (or praise). The honeymoon is over. Are you suggesting the honeymoon should be extended for another year.
Mac that last post was a joke mate. I am no lover of LvG or a lot of the current squad but that was one very disingenuous post. Martial, Darmian and Shaw have all showed great promise and had some excellent performances. Granted its early days for all. Smalling has improved beyond all recognition. You are shouting about 8 games not making anyone a rock but are then using one game v Arsenal to bash and put players down. We’re all far from happy and things need to improve big time but seriously posts like that highlighting every negative without cutting players who have at least showed something a big of slack is out of order in my book.
Mac – How on earth you judge the quality of our players based on the Arsenal game? City lost 4-1 to Spurs and according to your analogy, every City player is rubbish. I guess you ate your words now. Not many teams in this league can beat Everton at Goodison by 3-0. This is how you empty Goodison before final whistle. A room for improvement, but if we play like this all season we can win the title…
I look forward for an improvement in our performances while you are waiting for another United defeat to call for LVG’s head. The difference
LvG made all the changes he should have made today. We should have played Arsenal exactly like we played Everton today.
A great team performance and a show of character to bounce back. Very, very chuffed today – our best away performance in a long while.
I am still so happy with the Martial signing, he made Coleman look like an amateur today, gliding past him again and again. Herrera showed his quality as always and the “Schmidfield” was impenetrable. Defensive changes were brilliant as well.
I think some of the detractors look silly today (the macguffin, Blacky, moral??)- like I said, the quality is there but the tactical errors by LvG made us look bad against Arsenal.
We have a crucial game in the Champions League game coming up followed by a heavyweight battle with City.
Keep the faith and damnwell support the team fellas.
N1xer + Martial Art – As I’ve often said in the past, I like to give players fair time before I pass judgement be it praise or criticism. I agree you can’t judge any player on the Arsenal game or inded any single game but Martial Art was making judgement on new signings based on just 8 games eg calling them a rock
Martial Art was praising lvg for his transfers suggesting they have put us on the road to success. Of course we hope they have BUT we cannot say that for sure because its early days, they may all turn out to be duds like Falcao, ADM and Valdes did.
In SAF laltter years fans were talking about road to success with an exciting generation of new players like Welbeck, Kagawa, Cleverly, Zaha, Powell, Jones, Evans etc etc. They were all destined to become OT legends. And where are they now? Martial Art is talking up new signings in order to talk up lvg.
My view is we cannot judge ANY new signing one way or the other and MA is wrong to cite them as eviodence of road to success. We can judge last year signings. Falcao, ADM, Valdes are flops. Blind Rojo decent but not great.Shaw Herrera show promise but have not had run of games to demonstrate consistancy.
Martial Art is once again cherrypicking in order to lavish praise on lvg while all the time saying there needs to be improvement and lvg should be replaced when his contract ends. Its double dutch. MA wants to say you’ve done a fantastic job BUT we wont extend your contract. Does MA work in HR I wonder.
None of lvg signings has (yet) established himself as an aurtomatic first cholce consistantly delievering high quality performances in the way Rio Vidic Evra Scholes Giggs Keano etc etc did.
As fopr lvg putting us on the road to success, so far it seems all we can be sure of for now is:
1. lvg has spent 250m and plans to spend a lot more
2. We are a good bet for top4 and bad bet for PL-CL titles.
3. The boring safety possession play is going to be with us for as long as lvg is.
4, We do not have a first eleven of proven ability ie top quality spine of the team.
5. We have many players who promise to become the spine but as yet are unproven.PS – I’m not surprised at our win. In my reply to the topic about the Everton game I saId it could and should be a stroll in the park.
Mac – OK let’s wait till the end of the season to make informed judgement. I prefer to talk about today’s game. This is how we should play. Fight for every ball. Agressive. we were very organised fought for every loose ball. Smalling is in a cloud all by himself. Schweinsteiger and Shneiderlin bossed it. Imo Shneiderlin should always start. Herrera magnificent. Rooney a little better but not enough lost the ball too much. Rojo did good too. And last but not least, that boy Martail what a player. I am really getting excited the same as when Ronaldo first came. 5 English players played. Lingard given a full half, and beating one of the best teams away from home by 3-0. Great performance by the team and LVG. But we need to play like today consistently.
I have one question though – What makes you think the Everton game could and should be a stroll in the park?
Martial Art – Not quite. You are doing the lvg trick. Buying time. LvG honeymoon is over. He can and should be judged the same as Moyes or indeed any manager would be, The transfers from lvg first year can be mostly judged and lvg decision to sign them. The new signings should not be judged nor lvg for signing them. LvG can be judged on the areas he strengthened or failed to strengthen. He can be judged on results and style of play. He can be judged on every aaspect of management from his handling of players, press to selections and tactics.
Regarding stroll in the park, if you read my first post in this topic I explain it. Basically a club of United’s wealth should hammer clubs like Everton just as a heavtweight boxer should hammer a flyweight. In 2013-14 our revenue was 433m Everton’s was 120m. LvG has spent 256m the past 2 seasons Martinez has spent 52m. Yes its football so anything can happen but the odds are heavily stacked in our favour. IF spending doesn’t make a difference then perhaps a top manager like lvg should spend 52m instead of 256m.
Mac, United did hammer Everton today and we are yet not half way to possessing a top tier team yet. LVG has shown he can retract on his original choices dropping Memphis and his blue eyed boy Blind,the one that the Hat is wrongly rating above Stones while comparing himself to happy.He also re-introduced Herrera and Sniederlin who you incorrectly do not rate although he was wrongly not utilized against the arse,which game you and the Black seem to be using as your ultimate standard judgement of our team. Failed to drop Rooney which everyone but him considered more then fair and true to form,the only good move was scoring the third goal.Have severely criticized United right ,left and center but I can afford to praise a game where United played well enough as a team to merit a win against a team that people over here have been having nightmares for the last 3 years due to their ‘lording’ over United. I do agree with you and the Black that LVG’s epitaph is still not earned and still to be written,and he should have spent better,got better results,etc,etc,but he also deserves some slack.The games a’coming are quite strong but United have started well enough me thinks.
emicallef – surprised you do not get my point. Martial Arts and others are basically seizing on anything they can to praise lvg and players and proclaim we are the road to recovery and success. Certainly spending 250m has improved us. It bloody well should. But as yet we cannot say we have the makings of a great team because there are (my opinion) too many cases where the jury is still out. LvG didn’t know his best team and formation last year and I doubt he does this year.
Fans like Martial Arts are making long term predictions based on 8 games so far, most of them against lesser clubs. If people want to base predictions on 8 games then I think its fair to include the result and performance against the only top4 team we’ve played so far. Yes we hammered Everton and no doubt we will hammer Palace, But what happens when face City. We’ll see.
In my view we should have the quality in the squad but no team or teamwork has been formed. The ingredients are in the pot and its on the stove but as yet we dont know how the soup will end up, Yes we can have a taste but the glimpses of promise are balanced out with unpleasant tastes.
Yes results have gone our way but before today you cannot say we’ve played well. We’ve had a fair bit of luck and made hard work to get the points. LvG seems as clueless as he was last year. Trial and error is name of the game and its debateable if he learns from his mistakes. In Rooney case he will no doubt see his goal as opening the floodgates when chances are we will be in for another long wait till he scores again.
Sorry my friend, I do not see evidence of us being on the road to success beyond the spending opf 250m on ingredients.
Ah knew you would use your consistent phrase of” me not grasping what you are saying”.It must be my old age then.You quote others as using whatever means to praise LVG and I am sort of supporting them.Well if you were talking about Happy I would earnestly agree with you because HH certainly took ”the red tinted glasses” to another level.He has only one serious competitor and that’s Paddy Crerand may God bless him.Yet you take every damn single opportunity to find fault.You know I agree with you on many fault exposures coming out of the club and the likes of you and me and the Black spared no one.But even Mr.Klopp,whom you previously quoted demanded 4 years to win a trophy so as already said,you have to give some slack.Demanding that we play a beautiful game in the process of winning is a no go as the majority demand the win first and foremost even at the expense of getting it in the dirty ‘mode’.I repeat we are still far and away from being what you,me and most want us to be,but that takes time and you know it. LVG may not be the man who achieves that but as you know it is a process,he,he,he.Have a nice and lazy Sunday afternoon my friend and enjoy.
Oh,and before you throw Mr.Moyes ‘not given time and all that jazz’, at me again, you do have a point of order there,and therefore you are mistaken in allowing time to any type of ‘process’,human or other,but at the same instance you are denying the same time and space to LVG. Now do not come out and tell me that I am praising LVG.
For starters,that was a much improved and compact performance from the team (and LVG!) and we can have some optimism for the upcoming tough games as a result,but let’s be honest chaps I doubt there is one single person on this or any other forum who thought it would turn out as comfortable as it did based on what we have seen so far.Even our new ‘Happy’ man admitted to being “very,very nervous” about the game and was more than willing to “take a draw or a narrow win” which really translates to admitting that he didn’t really fancy us much,yet now he tells us ‘doubters’ that we are looking “silly today”,a bit of a contradiction there methinks matey!.The many underlying problems we had before yesterday have not suddenly disappeared into thin air have they though?.For example,despite Rooney scoring his second away PL goal in 18 months (well done!) he is still very much a player on the decline and we all know it,so the Mac’s points whilst seeming churlish to some after a great win have still much validity to them.As the saying goes,’one swallow doesn’t make a summer’ and until this team produces an 8 or 10 game run of performances and results such as this the doubts and doubters such as myself will remain.
Mac – You think we should hammer teams like Everton because our income and transfer budget is higher than them? Another bizarre assertion. Everton’s run of success in this fixture. For the last three seasons, dating back to the defeat that opened Sir Alex Ferguson’s last campaign, United had lost at Goodison without even scoring a goal. We probably lost the title to City in the 2011/12 season when we drew 3-3 with Everton at OT (and they came from 1-3). You’ve spent too many words and so much time damning Everton as an excuse to not accord us our own merit- we weren’t winners because Everton were poor or have less budget, Everton were poor because we pretty much dominated every aspect of the entire match…. Brilliant performance. Probably the best of LVG’s reign no matter how one rates Everton’s performance. You can’t take match displays like that away from us by belittling the opposition.
emicallef & Martial Art – Both of you seem to totally miss and misunderstand me. This all comes about because MA praised lvg for putting us on the road to recovery annd success. I challenged that, saying it’s too early to tell. Tell me emicallef, dop you agree with MA or me on that point? Regarding points you both raised.
1. emicallef – You say I take every opportunity to find fault. But am I searching to find fault in the Arsenal game or is it staring us in the face and some happyhurling-esque folk choose to ignore it. Let me ask a hypothetical, if we played bad the first half then great the second half, and fans celebrated saying we are on the road to success now, would I be negative fault finding pointing out the first half or would I be realist seeking to temper red tinted optimism. Its that optimism that put us in this situation thinking the likes of Cleverly would be stars.
2. Some fans cant help themselves going overboard when we win well and doing the same when we lose. Its knee jerk noth ways. Yes we should celebrate and praise on our good win BUT BUT we should not extrapolate from that to make road to success conclusions.
3. emicallef – Yes I agree it takes time and I agree with lvg 3 years estimate. In fact I agreed with it before lvg came. Remind me who was the man saying we should heed SAF advice, be patient and tolerant. You agree with me “we are still far and away from being what you,me and most want us to be” but side with MA about being on the road to success. I’m saying because the destination is not in sight its too early to say for sure we are on the right road. I’m not condemming lvg simply challenging those who are already putting an order with the statue makers.
4. emicallef – Yes its a process hahah. Lets all hold back on scrutiny for 3 years before judging. Yep I bet thats what every new manager wants. I dont think we should expect too much the first year but we shouldn’t celebrate being on the right road before it is confirmed we are. From where I’m sitting us transforming us from most attractive to most boring is not the right road. As regards having a lazy Sunday, I’ll just pretend I’m Carrick for the day.
5. Martial Arts – Yes we should hammer teams whose financial weight is far less than ours. If not what then is the rationale for lvg spending 250m. Why do the richest clubs have the better players and more success. The reason Everton has success against us is because SAF didn’t spend, Moyes had SAF players plus rebellion and LvG players-system needed time. If Everton were that good they would be challenging for top4.
6. I’m not belitling anything. It was a good win especially since our away record not that good. Small clubs celebrate minor achievements like drawing with United. You seek to put us on that road, popping the champage for beating the likes of Everton, Villa even Palace. I say keep the champagne for beating top teams.
btw – where is “Through Thick and Thin” happyhurling and his playmate stoney?
Mac,your bang on the money and that in a very balanced view.
Mac – LVG shipped out some of the deadwoods. Is that not a way to success? We have a new squad, young players for a good future to come. We play Champions League, that was the goal. I quote LVG “Yes I spend a lot of money on Martial, but I buy him for my successor …. Ryan Giggs”. How I enjoyed Martial dropping Coleman off to nursery yesterday…. May be I am the only one seeing the progression that we’re making under the new manager. A manager comes in and takes over from an unfit manager who couldn’t control the team he had and allowed the senior players to disrupt the dressing room and failed to take a stand. Who had the opportunity to revamp the squad but only bought two players because he didn’t have the elite profile to attract the big names. Result, 7th.
I think most people just think we should be the best attacking team but we’re not at the minute so why play that way. We’re not what we used to be and people don’t accept or realise that and that’s the problem. LVG has steadied the ship and making progress. People forget how much has changed in just 2 years. Just because they get paid a lot it doesn’t mean people can gel together easily this is a whole new team from 2 years ago
One thing that has concerned me about LVG and his mates ‘philosophy’ and ‘process’ for over a year now is, why can he not see that Ander Herrera should be one of the first names on the team sheet. He also needs to grow up, get over his problems with Rojo and acknowledge that Rojo is a natural defender and always be included ahead of Young as a left back.
Great result against a decent Everton side, originally thought we’d get beat again. I think IF we win against Man City then we can talk about a chance of going for the title. No Utd supporter is thinking it’s a guaranteed win. I just hope it’s a good game of football between the two of us.
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