Career defining month for LVG and Rooney?.
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Martial Arts – Shipping out deadwood was a pre-requisite to stop the rot. Any manager would have done that, even Moyes. The difference between us is you want to praise lvg for doing it whereas I think it not worthy of mention,. In fact what would have got my praise is if he could have kept and improved SAF players. As it is, he endorsed my view that Moyes did not have a chance with the players SAF left.
I disagree with comments about Moyes but lets not open that debate. I doubt Moyes had the funds to buy players. We know fact that Ed said when Moyes took over that it was a healthy squad and when LvG took over he said the team needed rebuilding. \We can assume fund availabuility would match his comments.
Yes we have a lot of young players who on paper are quality. But here’s the difference between us. You are taking for granted those players will turn out as expected. That is the assumption that landed us in this mess. That Cleverly, Evans, Welbeck, Powell, Zaha etc etc would make the grade. I bet you were one of the fans hailing how we had the core of a future great team with those players and how we were on the road to success. And where are they now?
I’m not saying we’re not on the road to success, I’m saying its too early to say. NONE of the signings have established themselves. The new signings are not expected to and last years signings have not. Falcao ADM Valdes gone, Rojo doesn’t convince you and may be off. Blind doesn’t convvince you, he’s handy utility player no more. Shaw injured so hard to assess. Herrera looks great but may be sold. Of the new signings, Schweinsteiger injuries and lack of pace a concern. Depay may make it or may turn into a Nani. Martial looks good but at his age is more for the future. We dont know. Schneiderlin seems decent but doesn’t set the world alight.
So the bottom line is the jury is out on almost all signings. There are areas that need strengthening so more top signings needed ie Rooney and strikeforce, central defence, and with 2 oldies inn Carrick Schweinsteiger and Herrera not favoired the midfield will need adressing again.
The negative playing style is certainly here to stay. I dont see how talk of us losing our identity and heritage is progress or the road to success. Do you want us known for the sideways pass and long ball to Fellaini? LvG has already upset the dressing room with his treatment of DDG and Valdes. #
btw – LvG problem with Herrera is well documented. Herrera has spoken of how he was told of by lvg for chasing the ball.
Basically you are lowering expectations then enthusiastically celebrating when the expectation realised. You thought we’d lose to Everton so are ecstatic when we won. Whereas I thought we should beat them and do not pop the champagne when we beat mid table teams like Everton. You hail lvg for selling deadwood, hardly an achievement. You praise Smalling for personally improving from rubbish to decent or good.
Why dont you practice what you preach and hold back on the road to success prediction and lavisg praise for lvg smalling etc until such time as we can be sure you wont end up with egg on your face like happyhurling and his good to go predictions.
Good evening Mac,
If I am missing what you are saying it is either that I am an idiot or that you are not expressing/explaining your thoughts well enough. Now I happen to think that your posts are very well thought, good English, well researched etc,, and of course I am not an idiot so,,,leave you to work it out by yourself.1].I do use inappropriate words occasionally due to laziness and/or being in too much of a hurry, and my words ‘finding fault’ were perhaps not suitable . Answering your question I would say it is a ½ empty ½ filled bottle question which any answer could be presented without anyone being correct and /or incorrect .Will that leave you anywhere near the truth or logic you would be after ? Of course not. We are on the same waveband regarding happyhurling – esque folk [don’t think MA is one by the way], who only see one what they alone want to say although they would be entitled to their own personal views. Ultimately I would will answer that the game is 90 mins and I would judge it accordingly overall not nit-pick whichever ½ suits me. Your suggested tactic would render your judgement as chaotic trying to determine the border between being realistic and negative. Sir said United could be title challengers, bet you disagree no ?
2 ] Will never argue your point here. You are correct.
3] I do not side with MA, I happen to like his posts/reasoning and support some of his views like I do with you,the Black and the rest. I said it countless times we are still very far away from the finished article so again we agree.
4] 3 years is a long time my friend especially and particularly to people my age, therefore I prefer to talk in the present as it more convenient and like you say realistic. Your use of Carrick is sublime.Prosit.
I therefore conclude that we are 99% on the same waveband albeit some isolated skirmishes and long may it last. LVG is an honest person ,albeit old school and like Mr.Klopp just said that ‘his ways are not better then B.Rogers just different,so it is with LVG. He errs just like you and me lets hope he minimize them as much as possible.Mac as always you are ‘with it’ and I cannot fault you for it or your love for what we love.
Emicallef – Don’t disagree with you but cant you understand my confusion. We both agree that success is a long way off as yet and are on the same page. But when I challenge MA for saying we are firmly on the road to success and you slap my wrist for saying that. My view is that its too early to tell. You seeming agree with MA we are firmly on the road but we’re a long way off. Jeez you have bloody good eyesight seeing things so far away. Did you see Falcao and ADM failures I wonder. How can we be sure Memphis wont turn out to be a Nani.
3 years is not long when you consider the state SAF left us in, But for the present we are far from finished article and are very much a work in progress. Its like standing behind Picasso as he paints. It may turn out to be a mastepiece or a mishmash or arms of legs without meaning, purpose or style,
As for lvg I tend to conman school of thought. His incessant use of buzzword philosiophy process etc is designed to avoid explanation and questions. He buys players and time as he experiments to find something that works. Its like a monkey instead of Picasso with the paintbrush. A hell of lot of canvass gets thrown into the bin before anything of value can be seen. LvG is for me like the aging popstar who made a career on the back of the one hit he had 20 years ago.
Mac – We all want to be number 1. We all want to see United play attacking football. We all want to see world class players playing for us, etc etc. But you know it’s a process 🙂 haha. People hate change. And of course the media likes conflicts and troubles if its United, they will never search for the positive news. Different managers have different methods and van gaal believes in his philosophy. They knew when they hired him. He should be allowed to fail on his own philosophy not others.
But at least we can agree on 2 things
1. As emmicallef said, we’re are not yet a finished article
2. Van gaal sorted out the deadwood and we are making some progress. (we’re third on the table 2 points behind City)He has 3 years to turn everything around. So well, just let him do his job.
As for David Moyes, I’ve been saying this .. Moyes is the biggest mistake Man United ever made.
“It’s like a monkey instead of Picasso with the paintbrush” – even for you Mac, this is classic.
I strongly disagree but it’s still hilarious.
I agree we all wanrt to be number 1 with world class players playing attractive football. Thats the aim and maybe a dream but not necessarily an impossible one. The teams of 68 andf 99 were that.
I dont think the media are ABU. They sensationalise everything making the positive seem better than it is and the same for the negative. They search for positive news, negative news, any news.
Yes different managers have different philosphies but I disagree with the idea that the manager brings his philosphy to the club and the club should change to suit the manager. I think we should hire a manager who subscribes to the clubs philosophy. He implements and manages our philosophy, he doesn’t change it.
Not sure the club knew what it was getting with LvG. I think they wanted a big name manager and LvG was the only one around. The short 3 year contract is telling.
I agree we are not finished article. And yes LvG certainly has cleared most (not all) of the deadwood. The progress comes as a result of getting rid of deadwood and bringing in better players more that LvG management. His formations, selections, substitutions have ben bizarre and the possesssion philosophy has stunted creative players and killed our identity.
He has 2 years left and should be subject to the same scrutiny and criteria as any other manager. He’s had his honeymoon. You agreed on that so howcome the plea for him to be let alone.
Glad to see old boys are still alive.
Aka ika
Welcome back Steve,aka Ika!.
WELCOME
Rooney absolutely garbage again.
Carragher said he wasnt his normal self – Im afraid that was very much Rooney being his normal self.
He really is that bad all the time now.Martin Tyler described the Rooney Otamendi battle as an “almighty tussle”. I couldnt have disagreed anymore as it was like Baresi against Birtles!
The only battle Rooney is having these days is against Father time who has long since decreed that the one time 16 year old boy wonder is finished as a top tier player. Its a battle that is already lost.
That we are also accommodating onevor both of Carrick and Bastian who are also burnt out is compounding the fact. There will be little to no excitement as long as Weary Wayne is leading the line. Its as simple as that.
Well chaps,the pivotal month of October has come to an end and as I originally suggested it might do it has proved a chastening experience for both LVG and Rooney.A battering at Arsenal,followed by an excellent win at Everton (which is now looking like nothing more than a fluke),a spawny draw in Moscow against a Champions League also ran team,knocked out of the League Cup and failed to score a goal in 120 minutes by a tier 2 team who rested several of their best players,5 points from our last 12 available and only 1 goal scored in well over 5 hours of football since the Everton match.I’m sure LVG would point out that we didn’t lose any of these games,but it just isn’t acceptable to play in such a negative,safety first fashion every week at this club and for the first time since he took charge our away support at Palace yesterday made that clear to LVG,let’s see if he takes note!.
Blacky come on mate. I love reading ur posts u crack me up with ur brutal assesment of everything man united but ur last sentence? Do u really think van gaal will take note of the fans? Really? Hes more stubborn than sir!
LvG and the red tinted fans here will say we are 4th only 4 points off the top. A season of 1-0 against lesser teams and 0-0 against top teams could see us end near or at the top. Then the old points v performance debate resurfaces. It really needs measurement of entertainment to be factored into the club objectives and fan debate. \A journo asked lvg about entertainment and he replied the team was entertainiung and the proff is the stadium is full. To an extent he’s right. If fans don’t care enough to vote with their feet why should he or the club care either?
What winds me up is the constant “lvg red white army” why? Hes embarassing united
@fergiesarmy – I know you’re right mate,there’s no way LVG will give a toss what the fans think,but he should do – just ask David Moyes!.
(LV Confusion )will not be able to achieve anything no matter how much more he spends, simply because players are not willing to play or adapt his stupid what so called(“system”), and no matter who he buys ( messi , C.R. Neymar , Suarez…etc..) he will confuse the hell out of them too…
I’m firmly against lvg taking us forward, he came in at a time when we needed a good kick in the back side and he certainly did that. However, 18 months down the road he seems to forget there is football to be played. If the board decided to treat van Gaal in the manner he treats players ie with an iron fist, he would have been out on his ear at the end of last season!
Despite angel di maria being a prima donna and bad pro when the going gets tough, can you imagine the player we would have if fergie was n charge or more realistically ancellotti! He should have been our crown jewel and van Gaal flexing himself as ‘the boss’ has cost us a real player!
Getting back to basics, our tactics are awful, out performances are worse and we play safe! We are hard to beat and hard to watch, that is not man utd gone are the attack attack attack days!
Van Gaal does not have the support he believes he has, we are not far from letting the board know we are not happy! The tidal is turning against him despite his arrogance, he actually said yesterday if we score against CSKA all will be forgotten! Get a grip! Why can’t we get ancellotti while he is still a free agent? Drives me crazy, just putting off the inevitable! He will lose the dressing room and then we have a real problem!
We need teams below us to start winning games. Lvg will only feel the pressure once we drop out of top 4. It is clear now that the Everton result was a fluke. The positive from palace game was that rooney got moved to the left towards the end. Hopefully in the next game he’ll get substituted and then dropped. Lvg clearly thought rooney will get him the goals this season and martial wasn’t meant to be playing regularly. Luckily a young 19 year old has shown us how poor the big boy is up top.
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