Champions league draw

This topic contains 110 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by Zico Zico 5 years ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 21 through 40 (of 111 total)
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  • #1734602
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @hatters – We agree we have different outlooks but I can’t see why you find my so strange and yours so normal.

    you want to have the perfect Champions League run Am I wrong to want to see a great side being a deserved winner and going down in the history books? Am I wrong in having that as my dream instead of fluking our way to a trophy now?

    it is simply unrealistic .. to hold the manager/players to that standard in this season. Have I done that? Am I not the one who has been saying we should get a young manager and team and give them years?

    The difference between us is patience. I am prepared to wait, you are the one wanting something to celebrate now, however it comes. For me, the celebration is the dark cloud of JM going and the sunshine Ole brings.

    You don’t really seem to enjoy any of the moments in the journey and are always looking to the future You’re damn right. Care to enlighten me about all those enjoyable moments on our journey from Moyes to Ole. Is it any bloody wonder I’ve looked to the future not the present.

    This is how I differ from you, happy and others. If its a gloomy winter, I look forward to spring. I don’t find the need to celebrate the hour the sun decided to peek out from behind the dark clouds and tell everybody what a glorious day it is and it’s bound to be a scorcher tomorrow.

    I have read many philosophical books Pity you didn’t read some English books. Romantic book or Romance book? Criminal book or crime book? Philosophical book or Philosophy book?

    we have until the end of the season to squeeze every last drop out of this lemon Why do you limit your vision to this season. Impatience? Screw this lemon, I’m interested in the tree and the next harvest.

    The progress of the club can be judged in the summer No it can’t. The progress of JMs team has been judged and JM has been fired. The progress of Ole’s team deserves at least as much time as JM and LvG had.

    it’s because this little period of uncertainty has created great results for us The results are in part down to the easy run Ole had and the lifting of the dark cloud that was JM. The players were almost in rebellion. Ole has gone well beyond this, and that’s down in part to attitude and momentum.

    As long as the manager and players are uncertain of their job security they will pull together and work hard Manager and players didn’t have job security in JM reign did they. And they did the opposite of pulling together. The reason they do so now is because Ole is instilling the right mood & motivation.

    try enjoy football in a simplistic manner for a change. What is this need you have to constantly “enjoy”. I don’t have that need. For me United is part of my life. It’s like a religion, I don’t have to enjoy the church service. It’s like the wife, I don’t have to enjoy her. I don’t have to enjoy the wart on my nose, it’s just a part of me. It is what it is.

    You need to toss out the philosophical books and starting reading some about the Religion !

    PS – Apologies for mega post, but you talked crap in almost every sentence.

    #1734614

    homerjay540
    Participant
    • :

    Agree with Mac above. The magic of this competition comes from playing against the very best teams in the world. Would like to avoid English clubs simply because we already play them 2/3 times a year every year.
    Barcelona or Ajax for me. Would be great to see Blind back at OT

    #1734620
    redblood
    redblood
    Participant
    • :

    Lyon to get a score draw tonight,the we play them next….

    #1734623
    redblood
    redblood
    Participant
    • :

    I wouldnt mind Spurs or Liverpool[if they go through tonight!],but not City.

    Dont be a bellend @hatters,read some English books and toss out philosophical books,hehehe!

    #1734626
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @homerjay – Plus should we get knocked out, its easier to swallow forget if it was a foreign club !

    #1734628
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @homerjay – look at the euphoria from beating PSG. what would it be like if we had got through by beating one of the smaller clubs.

    #1734629
    Narthraal
    Narthraal
    Participant
    • :

    I wouldnt mind Spurs or Liverpool[if they go through tonight!]

    I really hope that Liverpool will get Man United cause that means a automatic qualification for us! ^^

    #1734641

    mufc
    Participant
    • :

    Macguffin-I can see your angle. Look at 99, you can look at the trophies won but people forget the route to the finals. For everything it was the most DIFFICULT in history for all 3 trophies.

    -The league, won on the final day, we were losing to.

    -FA Cup, we knocked out the cream of England to win it, Chelsea, Liverpool last minute, and it took a replay vs Arsenal, with 10 men.

    CL-forget the knockout stages, the bloody group stage, we had Barcelona and Bayern in our group. We were up against it from the group stages, then the knockout stages. We knocked out Inter, then Juventus after being 2-0 down after ten minutes and beat Bayern in the final with Keane and Scholes suspended.

    Toughest run in a season ever.

    #1734645

    @macguffin – I started my comment stating “People

      from the outside

    don’t remember the route to victory – they just remember the victory.”

    Thought that automatically implied that we, as supporters of the club, will remember our own teams results and victories. And yes, of course I remember the leagues won and lost down the years and how they happened; have every Season Review from 95/96 which I’ve watched many times over because I enjoy the ride as much as the actual win.

    Point I was trying to make is that, to neutrals as well as in the grand scheme of things, the most important thing is winning because that is what the record books show and that’s what history will remember, not any single supporters opinion of how great a win or loss was.

    Cheers

    #1734650
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @mufc – Glad somebody grasps my point. To take one game in that wonderful season as example. Imagine if instead of Arsenal in THAT semi we had played some small club, and they had a man sent off, and instead of a Giggs wondergoal we got a dodgy penalty. Then we win the cup and do the treble and it goes into the record books. BUT would it be something to be proud of? Would it be something to tell the grandchildren about?

    Of course we cannot expect it and would be happy with a win however it came. BUT it would not be as sweet and could even be something not to tell the grandchildren about.

    @Sympathy – In that case, I’m not sure “people from the outside” even remember who won what and when. And they sure as hell are less likely to remember (in a positive way) if the road, team, match was unremarkable.

    As for great scheme of things, you’ll have to explain to me what the scheme is. For the great scheme is to be remembered as great team playing great football and great victories. Pretty much like mufc outlined for the 99 team or how “people” today talk about the Busby Babes.

    I would not like us to be remembered as the team who had the softest route and jammiest of victories. Then we are nothing more than a name and date in a football history list.

    #1734659

    @macguffin – that is a very fair point and I can understand your point of view completely. What I’m saying about the grand scheme of things is that, over time, these type of memories are forgotten by everyone but ultimately the results are what really matters. As an example, I’d bet my bottom dollar that Ajax, AC Milan and Barcelona had some amazing clashes back in the 80s and 90s that rival, or even surpass, our Arsenal FA Cup semi win or our 3-2 away win against Juventus. Do you think any neutrals remember them? Do you think even their own fans do? I’d say only those that lived in that era will remember the matches; younger fans would not know these matches. But then ask any young kid how many trophies his team has won, or who holds the record for CL wins? They’ll know that – just how we at United know we’ve won 20 leagues and Liverpool 18. That;s the point I’m trying to make myself – whilst people who were there to witness the superb wins and those crazy matches will enjoy the moments, as an overall perspective of the general public it doesn’t matter… but trophies do.

    Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy those magical moments myself (the Arsenal semi final remains the best game of football I’ve ever watched) but if you had to ask me if I’d prefer one CL trophy win in magical fashion or 5 CL wins with nothing too spectacular about any of them, I’d take the latter hands down – because I know that the matches may be overtaken in time (don’t think we’ll remember the PSG win next year unless we win the trophy for example, despite the pure euphoria we all felt) but the trophy count sticks – with everyone.

    Cheers

    #1734664
    hatters
    hatters
    Participant
    • :

    @macguffin. I have to say I disagree with your general narrative being relevant in this particular case.

    I agree with you that we are far off having a team, squad, and club that can genuinely compete consistently at the highest level (Premier League and Champions League) but I think you are misplaced here my good fella.

    When we look at what is in front of us this season then it means we must (as fans) carry support and belief going into the FA Cup, the Champions League, and the fight for the top 4 spot. As always you make it a long, drawn out debate for me to actually articulate my points but yes, I will entertain you with a similarly long post to bore the bollocks out of everyone else:

    1. you want to have the perfect Champions League run Am I wrong to want to see a great side being a deserved winner and going down in the history books? Am I wrong in having that as my dream instead of fluking our way to a trophy now?

    Yes, you are wrong in wanting a perfect Champions League run because just as much as we could have an easy run, we can have a hard run. The draw is outside of our control and you judging us on that variable is unfair and unrealistic – the Manchester United squad does not control the draw for your “perfect run”.

    2. it is simply unrealistic .. to hold the manager/players to that standard in this season. Have I done that? Am I not the one who has been saying we should get a young manager and team and give them years?

    Yes you are and I agree with you.

    3. You don’t really seem to enjoy any of the moments in the journey and are always looking to the future You’re damn right. Care to enlighten me about all those enjoyable moments on our journey from Moyes to Ole. Is it any bloody wonder I’ve looked to the future not the present.

    I am speaking more about personal journey here and perhaps I was speaking out of turn when we talk about a football club. If you are interested – the book is called “The Power of Now”; written by Ekharte Tolle – great read and I still keep some lessons from it after reading it about 7 years ago.

    4. You don’t really seem to enjoy any of the moments in the journey and are always looking to the future You’re damn right. Care to enlighten me about all those enjoyable moments on our journey from Moyes to Ole. Is it any bloody wonder I’ve looked to the future not the present.

    I agree with you here. I can enjoy the moment when we beat Crystal Palace at the last minute from a Matic thunderbastard, I can enjoy Zlatan scoring a last minute header for us to lift a cup and I can enjoy Marcus Rashford putting away a late penalty against PSG to put us through against all odds – none of these moment meant we are are now a European powerhouse but all of them were sweet victory to me. Learn to enjoy the moment my good sir.

    5. we have until the end of the season to squeeze every last drop out of this lemon Why do you limit your vision to this season. Impatience? Screw this lemon, I’m interested in the tree and the next harvest.

    Now this is where your true colours shine through. You are incapable of enjoying the present and only want to focus on the variables of the future. Relax bruv. The fans on the stands who follow the team religiously are supporting us every minute of every game. The fans will push us across the impossible lines and motivate this bunch to the trophies. Now that OGS is at the wheel we can “dream” – even though the word seems to be a foreign one to you.

    6. As long as the manager and players are uncertain of their job security they will pull together and work hard Manager and players didn’t have job security in JM reign did they. And they did the opposite of pulling together. The reason they do so now is because Ole is instilling the right mood & motivation.

    Agreed

    7. try enjoy football in a simplistic manner for a change. What is this need you have to constantly “enjoy”. I don’t have that need. For me United is part of my life. It’s like a religion, I don’t have to enjoy the church service. It’s like the wife, I don’t have to enjoy her. I don’t have to enjoy the wart on my nose, it’s just a part of me. It is what it is.

    I can’t disagree with your morbid approach to football there. It’s your own agency.

    P.S. I wasn’t “talking crap”, I was disagreeing with your view which is exactly what this forum is designed for. You are east and I am west, I just thought you could somehow see a little of the folly you are disseminating on these pages for what it is.

    #1734768
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    P.S. I wasn’t “talking crap”, I was disagreeing with your view which is exactly what this forum is designed for.

    I penned a mega post but will summarise instead for the sake of the forum. the forum was not designed to:

    1) Twist posters words – I said want in the sense of dream or desire, you twist it into the sense of expect or demand.

    2) Put words into posters mouths – I never said eg. “this season”. –

    3) Misrepresent posters views – It never said there has been no moments to enjoy or that I did not enjoy them. My point was they have been few and far between and instead of praying for a fleeting glimpse of the sun in a gloomy winter, I pray for spring.

    4) Intoducing irrelevant points – like us not being able to control the draw. Of course we can’t but what has that to do with my assertion that there is more glory in a hard fought battle against top opponents than fluking it against weak(er) opponents. My point was, unlike you, I do not hope.pray for soft opponents in order to make winning easier or more likely.

    5) Refering posters to an obscure book eg “The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment” – It is TWADDLE. You can ring your little bell and chant OMMM all you want mate but please don’t use that as basis for arguing for a viewpoint I should adopt.

    And let’s explore what reading that book has done for your “Spiritual Enlightenment”

    #1734769
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    You are incapable of enjoying the present and only want to focus on the variables of the future.

    You said before JM was fired ……………..

    Whenever someone mentions “football” to me of late I flinch – it’s like a swearword to me. I won’t get into all the details because it seems pretty much the same every week – bang average with no end in sight ….. I have nothing to add on this forum for the foreseeable future…..

    My support for this club has been lulled into a zombie-like state – just like the performances. So I don’t have anything to add here until something noteworthy happens …… Until then it will be the same double-decker shit sandwich being served up week in, week out.

    If this is what reading “Power of Now, how you get Spiritual Enlightenment.” has done for you thank god I never read it. When the NOW is good you preach about enjoyment, and when the NOW is bad you bugger off and wait for the future.

    PS – This is why some folk don’t like me quoting them. It exposes facts and truth.

    #1734770
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @Sympathy = We’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t think our fame is becaue of the number of trophies, irrespective of how won. Perhaps that’s true for the people who spend their time buried in statistics and record books. It is short lived. Who talks about Spurs being first to do the double. Who talks about the records and titles of Blackpool, Villa etc.

    Its like history. People don’t know the dates or even number of battles won and lost. Folk remember and recount the great people and events from history. Its players like Edwards, Best, Robson, Cantona etc. Its great goals like Giggs semi final or Ole’s final being replayed millions of times and talked about that keep the glory alive. Whilst perusing hatters archives, I came across a post of his …….

    When I was recently seconded to Singapore I saw a massive following for Manchester United and it was seated on names like Scholes, Giggs, Neville, van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo, Rooney, Ferdinand, and Vidic etc.

    He’s right, its not based on years and title wins. Its people and heroic events. Would Agincourt be remembered if we surrounded and outnumbered the French and they were all sick and injured. Would standing on top of Everest be such a great thing if you got there by helicopter instead of climbing.

    #1734781

    jm1502
    Participant
    • :

    Fuck me, and I thought we needed a rebuild. Did anyone else watch Bayern last night? They are done – even Thiago Alcantara and Alaba look finished. And wasn’t someone on here pining for us to sign Lewandowski recently? He’s finished to, and this after Dortmund’s capitulation. Germany’s football’s in a worse state than its economy. Anyway, I for one would rather get Barca than Citeh or the scousers.

    #1734800

    @jm1502 – brave of you to want Barcelona mate – I do not fancy seeing our defence go up against Messi, Suarez, Dembele and Coutinho. We might get a goal or two but I reckon they’ll get 5 or 6.

    As for Bayern, they were dependant on players who are past their peak – Robben, Ribery are in their mid-30s, Boateng, Martinez, Muller and Lewandowski I believe are all in their 30s now… they have good young players coming in but there’s a bit of a gap between the ageing superstars and the good young players ready to take their places; the young ones don’t have that Champions mentality that the older generation have yet.

    #1734802

    @macguffin – yeah think we’ll have to call it quits on this one, but just one last point re. the Singapore supporters:

    “When I was recently seconded to Singapore I saw a massive following for Manchester United and it was seated on names like Scholes, Giggs, Neville, van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo, Rooney, Ferdinand, and Vidic etc.”

    Do you think this following is due to the players’ magical moments or because we were Champions League winners at the time? Because I would think that, someone like Cantona has had more magical moments for the club than, say, Neville, yet the latter was part of the winning squad whilst Cantona never got the treble / Champions League.

    In any case, let’s just agree to disagree and not clog this forum.

    Cheers

    #1734804

    jm1502
    Participant
    • :

    I think that’s what I said without going through all their players mate, but you’re right, no legs or dynamism. They’re in a worse place than us. As for wanting Barca, not really, but rather that than the risk of going out to Citeh or the scousers – that was my point. And by the way, I’d worry about our defence against Barca as well, but mostly because the 6 players that play in front of the them don’t seem to be able to string more than a couple of passes together before handing the ball back to the opposition. It’s the front 6 that’s the problem mate.

    #1734820

    mufc
    Participant
    • :

    From the English sides who would you all want? I would go for Spurs, but then again after Spurs go through a barren spell like they are now, they tend to go on a strong run. Also guys, forget Porto, City have got them already, like they have had luxury draws in every fucking cup this season.

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