November 26, 2019 at 12:31 pm #1802366
can you please use the term stat in the correct way davinci?November 26, 2019 at 8:03 pm #1802503
Why hasnt Klopp moved Henderson on if he is that bad? Its not as if Klopp doesnt have the Keys to Anfield, if Klopp wanted a superior player to Henderson he could easily demand that FSG give him the funds to do so. But he didnt. Why becasue Henderson is a very good player who executes Klopps instructions extremely well most of the time, we all know hes not World Class ball playing-wise, but when it comes to executing Klopps gengenpressing which isnt easy (see 54m Keita) then we see he has great value to the team. Attacking wise hes not that bad as some people make out, especially when you look at the run and cross for Mane against City. I agree your not going to hang your attacking hat on Henderson but he fits perfectly for the midfield that Klopp wants.
Ironically I seen rival fans lauding our midfield and the job that it does, I remeber watching Arsenal Fan TV one time and Robbie was in awe of our midfield and the job it does for the rest of the team, they wish they had Hendo lolNovember 26, 2019 at 8:37 pm #1802509
mwake, so your argument is that Hendo is a great presser and harrasser in Klopp’s gegenpressing system. Cool. I’ve got nothing against him chasing down players or executing Klopps plans. My argument is that he is NOT a top quality player.
When we talk about top quality players we don’t use terms like ‘attacking wise hes not that bad as some people make out’. Not that bad? FFS, have you guys lost your minds?
Just because we are currently doing well and racking up points, it shouldn’t disable your ability to speak the truth.
I repeat again, my argument isn’t that Henderson is a ‘bad’ player or a liability. My argument is that he is ‘average’. He’s an ordinary player with nothing special about him.
Bingo //can you please use the term stat in the correct way davinci?//
How have I misused the term stat? Do you even know what you’re talking about?
Whoops.Silly question. How can someone who claims that Hendo is World Class know what’s he’s talking about LOL…PeaceNovember 26, 2019 at 9:59 pm #1802529
”I repeat again, my argument isn’t that Henderson is a ‘bad’ player or a liability. My argument is that he is ‘average’. He’s an ordinary player with nothing special about him.”
In order for you to be even close to being right, Klopp, Dalglish, Rogers, Gerrard, Carra, Suarez etc etc etc etc ALL have to be wrong
Which is it?November 26, 2019 at 11:36 pm #1802549
davinci you keep referring to ratings as stats and it really bothers me, its like you don’t understand the difference and yet you are trying to prove your point with them and I just can’t really find a way to ask you again with out sounding like a condescending prick, can you just tell me why?November 27, 2019 at 11:23 am #1802643
Davinci, I am not funny, it is actually you who amuses people immensely because you think you know more than Klopp, yet you make so many embarassing schoolboy blunders over here that prove completely otherwise. As for never letting you down, don’t delude yourself of your ability, especially when you keep being proved wrong several times on Liverpool players.
My post related to the City game specifically, where you said Henderson was out of his depth. But you failed yet again to convince anyone, because virtually all the press gave him good ratings for this game. Where did I refer to Henderson’s stats over a season? Why change the goalposts when you lost the original debate?
How ignorant or vindictive, to criticise a player just because you don’t rate them, despite solid, undeniable proof showing that he clearly had a good game.
Try as hard as you like, but your lies about Henderson will convince nobodyNovember 27, 2019 at 12:06 pm #1802671
“He’s continually on the pitch because we don’t have any alternatives that are noticeably better”.
No prizes for guessing who came up with one of the most incorrect statements about Henderson ever. So basically Klopp is basically playing Henderson, because there are no better players – talk of football ignorance of the highest order.
The truth is that Henderson, just like every other Liverpool regular, is starting purely based on merit and nothing else. He is in fact seeing off competition from four midfielders, Ox, Keita, Milner and Lallana – two of whom cost at least £40m each.
As always, just like our owners FSG, let’s leave it to Klopp to deliver the big trophies, with Henderson playing a major part in our successNovember 27, 2019 at 12:20 pm #1802680
Why bother Songman? This was the guy who said Hendo wasn’t a regular and now he switches the goal post and says we don’t have any better. Funny thing is Ox was injured for most of last season and now available.November 27, 2019 at 6:11 pm #1802816
Bingo //davinci you keep referring to ratings as stats and it really bothers me//
Is this because he doesn’t have top quality ‘ratings’ but he has top quality ‘stats’?
What should bother you is that neither are worthy of being called a Top Quality Player LOL.
Songman //Davinci, I am not funny, it is actually you who amuses people immensely because you think you know more than Klopp,//
It’s not a case of knowing more than Klopp, it’s a case of being able to tell a top quality player from an average player. For 2-3 years, myself and others said that Hendo wasn’t good enough at DM. And for 2-3 years you and your sycophant allies gave the same argument ‘Klopp knows best’. What happens next? He brings in a genuine high quality DM in Fabinho and we win the CL. So, ultimately, who was right and who was wrong about him as a DM?
You then say: // He is in fact seeing off competition from four midfielders, Ox, Keita, Milner and Lallana – two of whom cost at least £40m each.//
So he’s seeing off ‘competition’ from 4 players, 3 that are injury prone and one that is in the twilight of his career. That’s what you call ‘competition’? Really?
LOL…Which TWO cost ‘at least’ £40m? Are you losing your mind? LOOOL
Songman, I’m not sure if you’re auditioning for Comedy Central but you’re doing a great job :).
And let me clarify. I give Klopp full credit for assembling a team whose whole is exceeding it’s sum of individual talent with his tactics. This doesn’t mean that every player in every position is a Top Quality Player. And whether you like it or not, Henderson is NOT a KEY player for us. In terms of importance he just about scrapes into the 1st XI based on lack of quality competition….PeaceNovember 27, 2019 at 6:31 pm #1802823
kopite //Why bother Songman? This was the guy who said Hendo wasn’t a regular and now he switches the goal post and says we don’t have any better. Funny thing is Ox was injured for most of last season and now available.//
Well, he wasn’t a regular starter last season (about 25 I think) and we don’t have much better on the bench. These are the state of things whether you like it or not…PeaceNovember 27, 2019 at 7:15 pm #1802831
So it’s just that you dont know the difference then…?
Its no wonder you fail then in making your point mate…!November 27, 2019 at 8:29 pm #1802848
“The fact you are talking about a ‘total package’ is because you are trying to deflect away from Hendo’s failings WITH the ball.”
Calling to look at the whole picture is the literal opposite of deflection.
“Having the ability to consistently find the back of the net, beat players, create chances, stamp your authority on the game – are most of what goes into being called a Top Quality Player”
By your definition, Virgil and Alisson are not top quality players.
When two of the best in the world don’t meet your criteria for being a top player, there’s something wrong with your criteria.November 28, 2019 at 2:00 am #1802883
Bingo, feel free to post the stats or the ratings that show Henderson as the World Class you claimed him to be. I know the difference between ratings and stats. But I don’t know the difference between which one will show he’s World Class and which one won’t. Before we talk any more on this subject, just provide the stats or the ratings to back up your claim.
JC,//By your definition, Virgil and Alisson are not top quality players//
The fact you have to act dumb in order to defend Henderson really says it all. Henderson now plays in creative position (again, as that’s where he first failed before failing as a DM). Is there any reason, other than a lack of ability, that Henderson shouldn’t be compared with other players in creative positions?
Would you EXPECT Virgil or Alisson to consistently score goals, create chances, beat players, or stamp their authority on the game (tho VVD does the last two quite regularly). No you wouldn’t, so why even bring it up?
You say //When two of the best in the world don’t meet your criteria for being a top player//…how have you defined that they are two of the best in the world?
I agree that they are. But what criteria are you using to say that and how is Henderson a Top Quality Player using the same criteria?…PeaceNovember 28, 2019 at 6:44 am #1802885
since you lads seem to want to continue this until everyones just dies. I think what Davinci said here is worth really tasking note of :
“Truth is, he is our captain but is rotated in and out like a squad player. Do you think if we still had Gerrard Klopp would simply rotate him in and out of the team based on ‘tactics’?”
You don’t needlessly bench your best players.November 28, 2019 at 7:03 am #1802886
This has been explained over and over again previously.
The midfielders, particularly Hendo and Gini, are subbed regularly because of the massive amount of work they get thru in any given game.
They are also occassionally rested and another midfielder, generally Milner, starts in their stead when required to give them a break.
The fact that neither of you have grasped how we play football, the tactics, the individual role and responsibilities, after all this time simply highlights your huge dearth of knowledge around this.November 28, 2019 at 7:14 am #1802888
“The midfielders, particularly Hendo and Gini, are subbed regularly because of the massive amount of work they get thru in any given game.”
Just to simply this even further for the hard of thinking, this is the same for anyone who plays the 2 No8 positions.
Hendo and Gini start and play these positions more than anyone else.November 28, 2019 at 12:11 pm #1802997
“The fact you have to act dumb in order to defend Henderson really says it all.”
I was just repeating your own criteria back to you. You’re right though, it’s dumb.
“Henderson now plays in creative position”
You suggest his role is simply to create, but you don’t know that. In fact, I think it’s pretty obvious his role has a lot of defensive responsibilities. But that depends on the opponent and how the game is going.
“Is there any reason, other than a lack of ability, that Henderson shouldn’t be compared with other players in creative positions?”
Let’s take Coutinho for example. It’s a tough sport mentally. Holding your nerve, passion, and old fashioned hard work, are great qualities in a footballer, which cannot be bought. He has all the skill and ability to succeed, but it’s not worked for him at Barca, because of the mental side of the game. Henderson, Gini and co had the better of him, over both legs last season.
“But what criteria are you using to say that and how is Henderson a Top Quality Player using the same criteria?”
I said in my last post. Playing against the best, and successfully carrying out your responsibilities, while under immense pressure, that’s what makes a quality player for me.
I don’t think people are saying Hendo is better than Gerrard. They are just reacting to statements like “Henderson watches the game pass him by” “Henderson is a failed AM/DM”, etc. And when you look at his career and what he’s contributed to the club, I think those reactions are fair enough.November 28, 2019 at 12:26 pm #1803000
if you do know the difference davinci then why do you continually mix them up and try to make your points with them?
But since you asked I’ll explain the difference between a rating and stat, a rating you see is a figment of your imagination, or a figment of someones else imagination. Its a number you see but there is nothing backing up that number, like your rating for example.
A stat would be something like a player succeeded in 80 passes out of 90, he had 4 dribbles in the game, he might have had three completed crosses out 8… thats another stat, you see those number are not a rating even though you can base a rating on stats, a player had five successful tackles in a game, he might have made 3-4 interceptions.
Let me know if you want someone to explain to you what tactics mean, or anything else for that matter, I’m pretty sure someone here will be happy to provide you with an answer if you really want to understand the game a bit better.November 29, 2019 at 11:11 am #1803315
Ginger //The midfielders, particularly Hendo and Gini, are subbed regularly because of the massive amount of work they get thru in any given game.//
Yes, they are subbed/swapped regularly because they are much of a muchness. Neither should be regarded as Top Quality – and that’s the point here. Not Klopps tactics or if our midfielders work hard. The claim that yourself, Songman and others have made is that Henderson is a Top Quality Player.
Why can’t you stick to the topic? The topic is about Henderson’s individual ability as a footballer.
You almost make it sound like if Klopp said to Henderson to go out there score loads of goals and make assists every game, then that’s what we’d get. Hilarious LOL…PeaceNovember 29, 2019 at 11:16 am #1803316
Bingo, are you actually able to read and comprehend English?
Here’s what I said // I know the difference between ratings and stats. But I don’t know the difference between which one will show he’s World Class and which one won’t.//
So, feel free to post the stats or the ratings which will show Henderson as the World Class player you claim him to be.
Just do that and then we can continue the conversation….Peace
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