Does Hendo need to be the TOP 3 midfielders in the CL to not be average

This topic contains 871 replies, has 31 voices, and was last updated by  NotoriousBingo 3 years, 11 months ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 41 through 60 (of 872 total)
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  • #1782224
    Davinci
    Davinci
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    • :

    D1rtyH4rry, what sort of ‘evidence’ do you require – like a police report or something? Opta stats tell you ‘what’ has happened, not ‘how’ it happened. So, opinions on players will always be based on what we SEE them doing and HOW they do it.

    This is football and it is ALL about opinions – no matter what Ginger would try to have you believe. There are enough LIVERPOOL fans that don’t rate Hendo, let alone blaming the criticisms in the link on Mancs (who I’m sure are overjoyed that Hendo still plays for us). If this thread is actually based on opinions, why is it ‘trolling’ to add the opinions of England fans?

    I do actually rate Hendo in that Drinkwater category. I honestly do. Common or garden players who are neither here nor there when it comes to their impact on a game. They are just willing workers (and I’m not saying that’s a bad thing).

    Henderson was VERY LUCKY that when he came here, the general level of the team/squad was so low that he managed to survive. By the skin of his teeth he avoided being sold to Fulham by Rodgers (tho I didn’t rate Dempsey either tbh). Drinkwater joined a Chelsea team that was generally levels above him, so it wasn’t a surprise he got little game time. I doubt Henderson woulda been treated much better at Chelsea.

    Ginger what irrefutable evidence do you have and how has it been used to ‘prove’ that Hendo is a top quality player?…Peace

    #1782231
    Davinci
    Davinci
    Participant
    • :

    Mwake, tbh, I think our AM’s need to be upgraded. Or at least one needs to be replaced to add creativity. Fabinho at DM is doing a great job. But either side of him is much of a muchness.

    I know they chase and press well but is that all that’s expected of a midfield? Do they have no attacking responsibilities?

    I’ve always thought and I’ve always said that I don’t think we’d win the title with Hendo as a first choice regular starter. He was rotated in and out last season as Fabinho took his DM position. Now he’s in a more creative position, I personally don’t think he’s up to it – but we’ll see.

    I’m hoping we can stay injury free and the others can carry him to the title this season….Peace

    #1782290

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    “Ginger what irrefutable evidence do you have and how has it been used to ‘prove’ that Hendo is a top quality player?”

    I’ve produced stats, testimonies, articles etc etc many many times over to refute your assertion that Hendo is “an average footballer with zero leadership qualities”. Others have too but you always ignore them. As well you know.

    You are the footballing equivalent of a flat earthier. 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
    At this stage you’re just a figure of fun. 😂🤣😂🤣😂

    #1782442
    D1rtyH4rry
    D1rtyH4rry
    Participant
    • :

    Davinci – I don’t require any evidence, my point being that opinions differ from person to person. What do you hope to gain from repeatedly calling him average? every poster on the board to succumb to your almighty knowledge, and hail you as the messiah. It’s well documented how you feel about our captain, surely at this point you are just banging your head on a brick wall?

    #1782445
    D1rtyH4rry
    D1rtyH4rry
    Participant
    • :

    Unless of course, you take some delight in winding other fans up? in which case it makes perfect sense that you carry on in the same vein, which in turn would make it trolling, would it not?

    #1782488
    Davinci
    Davinci
    Participant
    • :

    D1rtyH4rry, there’s something you seem to be missing in your recent tirade. This current thread you are on is actually about Henderson and peoples opinions of him. It’s not like I’ve gatecrashed an unrelated thread and just started talking about Henderson out of the blue.

    And, I didn’t start the thread either – but I’m happy to contribute.

    If that is what you call trolling, then what is the point of any thread on here if you can’t post opposing opinions? Think about it…Peace

    #1782494
    Davinci
    Davinci
    Participant
    • :

    Ginger, I don’t know which stats you think you’ve produced that have ‘proved’ that Hendo is a top quality player LOL. So, you’ve got PROOF he’s a top quality player, yet LFC fans are split down the middle and most neutral fans don’t rate him better than ‘OK’…But you have PROOF? hahahah….Please resend it, cos obviously it’s passed me by.

    Even people defending Hendo tend to start with the phrase ‘he may not be…’ which straight away shows they KNOW he isn’t all that – but they’re going to stick up for him.

    And if your stats are about how far he’s run or % of ‘completed passes'(likely to be sideways 5-10 yards) then I think you need to find more compelling evidence to PROVE he’s Top Quality.

    He’s in a new (old) position now, so I think it’s fair to expect and judge him differently to when he played DM (to no great effect). I think it’s fair to expect much more creativity in this position. He’s now in a position where (like ‘other’ Top Quality mids 🙂 he can control/boss the game. He should be centre stage when it comes to set pieces, as well as causing havoc with his skill on the ball, his distribution and his goal threat/scoring. This is what Top Quality attacking midfielders do (and more). If he is one (as you insist), we should see this on a regular basis. True or False?

    Here’s what I EXPECT from Hendo in this new (old) position. Lots of running, lots of harassing and pressing (and pointing). On the ball, he’ll probably launch long balls crossfield to Robertson when nearer the half-way line. When nearer the opposition box, he’ll blindly whip the ball in hoping that someone is in the general vicinity and can do something with it. In front of goal, he’ll try to find someone to pass to rather than shoot himself. And if he does shoot, he will nearly always side-foot it as he lacks the confidence to really hit it hard and on target. This is just so predictable.

    If we are winning/dominating by a couple of goals, he will be a bit more adventurous and he does have the odd good through ball when he is brave enough to try it (credit where it’s due). But if we’re losing/struggling, or up against really tough opposition, he won’t want the ball and will move it on quickly for SOMEONE ELSE to create something.

    Anyway, although he’s not top quality, I hope he does ‘enough’ to help us win games and ultimately win the title. Cant say fairer than that…Peace

    #1782503
    j c
    j c
    Participant
    • :

    I think Harry pulled your file there Dav, haha.

    “I’m hoping we can stay injury free and the others can carry him to the title this season”
    Is the implication here that Henderson doesn’t play when everyone is fit?

    As for Rodgers wanting to sell? Not sure why you’d dig that up. I’m pretty sure that was in summer 2012, when Rodgers first arrived.
    The same Rodgers who had Henderson starting every game by 2013 and made him club captain.

    #1782515

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    “Please resend it, cos obviously it’s passed me by.”

    😂🤣😂🤣
    Course they did.
    😂🤣😂🤣

    #1782517

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
    • :

    Im sorry to butt in but davinci thinks he is right just because of longevity, its kinda like he thinks that now after 6 years of preaching the same about Henderson, that everyone that has caved in to his relentless criticism of Jordan that we agree.

    Sorry mate, thats not the case, just about everyone on this forum has objected to your point, laid out numerous arguments for his worth but to no prevail as you simple reject the notion that anyone could know more about football than you.

    Its cute but its tiring as there is no doubt that Henderson will once again prove you wrong and just like I told you 6 years ago, I will tell you again, Henderson is key to what the club wants to achieve!

    #1782518
    mwake
    mwake
    Participant
    • :

    Davinci I was like you three seasons ago, heck even two seasons ago!

    When Klopp first came in I that thats it for Hendo, hes going to need to find a new team, that Klopp would identify Henderson as one of the first players to go. But Ive changed my views on Henderson as the seasons ahve gone by as many others have. No one thinks Henderson has the skill set of Kante, Fabninho, Fernandinho (whoever else you can care to mention that most people see as being better on/off the ball) but Henderson has shown that when it comes to playing Klopp’s tactics to a T that there arent many people better. I think that why Klopp loves Henderson becasue he applies himself in training and on the pitch and is intelligent to unpack and implement Klopps pressing system on the pitch.

    Look at Keita! A player that I fisrt saw and was ranting on here on TT months before we even bought him. I though Keita was going to explode and be perfect but so far you could argue if you had to sell eiter Keita or Henderson that you would sell Keita. Having techincal ability is one thing being able to implement it on the pitch is another.

    #1782679

    Songman
    Participant
    • :

    Davinci “What people like Songman try to do is strap Hendo to being a CL winning captain, as if that somehow means he ‘must be’ a quality player. It’s ridiculous and embarrassing to read something so stupid tbh. And then because he’s mentioned by coaches (probably because he captained the winning side and nothing else) in the top 3 CL midfielders, Songman has made a song and dance about it.”

    Not only is your stupidity unlimited, but your knowledge of football is fairly minimal also, judging by the outlandishly wrong predictions and analysis you have made over the years.

    You think Henderson suddenly became a quality player out of the blue, just because we won the Champions League last season? How about in the season before that we he led us to the final? Or the 2014 season when he was integral part of our title challenge?

    What is even more embarassing is that you think you know more about Hendeson than one of the best managers in the world Jurgen Klopp. Why would Klopp stake his career and put all his trust in Henderson (as a player and as a captain) if he was not a quality player, and win the biggest trophy in club football as a result?

    The more you keep up with your empty, unjustified criticism, the more Henderson is going to shine, and as usual the fasts and awards don’t lie

    #1782682

    Songman
    Participant
    • :

    For those who still do not have a clue about what Henderson does for Liverpool,this is what Xabi ALonso thinks, and he is clearly a better judge than any fan could ever be, having played in midfield, won virtually every trophy at club and international level, and is now a coach.

    “Jordan Henderson has become a figure in the changing room,” Alonso told BBC Sport.

    “I think he’s so respected, so important for his teammates – that’s the sense I get from watching in the stands. For the way they play it’s very important, the energy he has.

    “He’s able to take that step forwards, not backwards to make that pressure a bit higher. The way he connects with the three players up front, they play very direct and the way Liverpool is playing is the Jürgen way – the way they played at Dortmund with him and the way they play at Liverpool now.”

    And the article goes on to say:
    “It is interesting that the Spaniard specifically highlights Henderson’s importance as a link-man to the front three and his contribution going forward, given how he is so often derided for his ‘backwards passing’ on social media, ignoring the vast body of evidence of his underrated vision and technical ability.”

    My opinion – just like Firmino (and even Matip), Henderson does a very important, high quality but unheralded job, and each of them is a vital cog in the Liverpool machine

    #1782769

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
    • :

    songman its just posters like davinci that have it in for him, for the current team I reckon its both Bobby and Henderson that keep everyone on their toes, we could not press the way we do without them… The funny thing is that davinci has never seen a Liverpool team that is as strong as this one, not even the side that King Kenny managed back in the day is close to this one, yet the captain of the team is average.

    #1782780

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    Don’t worry Songman.
    By some way your quotes from Alonso will “pass him by”.

    Just remember Hendo is “an average footballer with zero leadership qualities”
    😂🤣😂🤣

    #1786039
    Davinci
    Davinci
    Participant
    • :

    Bingo //The funny thing is that davinci has never seen a Liverpool team that is as strong as this one, not even the side that King Kenny managed back in the day is close to this one, yet the captain of the team is average.//

    Sorry to disappoint you mate but I started supporting/watching Liverpool from 77/78. So I HAVE seen stronger teams than Klopps one. And again, I disagree and would say that Dalglish’s 87/88 team was a match (in terms of style and beauty) for Peps Man City team, as well as being just as clinical in front of goal. YOU obviously didn’t watch that side or else you wouldn’t talk so much foolishness.

    Songman, again, this poor attempt to qualify Hendo’s quality by what the TEAM has achieved. It’s really stupid. Seriously. If Hendo is THAT good, why can’t you simply point out what his individual qualities are that make him such a quality player? Point out what HE does that is so much better than his peers and why he should be rated much better than them.

    You keep going on about what Alonso says about Hendo, or that Klopp’s system has him in the team, or that Rodgers made him captain etc etc. You keep using OTHERS to qualify this guy. Why not just point out what HE does better than everyone else in his position and let’s judge if that is worthy of him being labelled (by you anyway) a Top Quality player.

    When Gerrard played in a (mostly) average team, it was his individual abilities that made him stand out from the rest – not only in LFC but the entire league/europe. It didn’t matter what Rafa or any other player/manager did or said about him, Gerrard proved time and again he was a Top Quality player, on the pitch. As do ALL Top Quality players. Why do you have to change the criteria for Henderson?

    A year (and more) ago, you and your Hendo-Lovers waxed lyrical about how he was a Top Quality DM. Myself and others argued that he wasn’t. He was simply performing the basics on a consistent basis. In steps Fabinho and since he has played, the DM position has been taken to a higher level. Why? Because Fabinho is a Top Quality DM. It’s only NOW you see how limited Hendo’s game was for the previous years in that position. Who now would rather Hendo in DM than Fabinho? NOBODY!!!!

    It seems that only once another truly Top Quality central/attacking midfielder is actually brought in that you will see how limited (and limiting) Hendo’s game is, esp against quality opposition. Against Chelsea, apart from an adventurous pass that nearly found Mane, he created nothing and looked panicked and awkward in tight areas. And you call that Top Quality?…Peace

    #1786066

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
    • :

    you dont know about team building because you dont rate half the stuff that is needed to build a team and davinci, this team is a lot stronger than the one from the eighties and I wouldnt really go about telling people how long you have watched the game the wrong way, it just makes you look stupid.

    #1786075
    Razor
    Razor
    Participant
    • :

    Agree with Bingo.. While I wasn’t there 30 years ago, the game itself has changed drastically. My dad used to tell me about how players would come into training drunk or overweight and still get selected. Any side from that era wouldn’t be able to handle this team. We’d be dominating the league now if it wasn’t for one of the best sides ever seen and even then we’ve reached 3 European finals and won 1.

    Personally I agree with some of what Davinci is saying but Henderson in general is a player that I like. I just think he isn’t a complete player and feel that at his age and with his squad status he should be.

    #1786149

    Songman
    Participant
    • :

    Davinci, I’ve noticed that the more you lose a debate, the more you band around insults like “stupid”, well that just makes you look even more er… stupid.

    Then you ask what Henderson does for Liverpool, well this is what he does and I’ve seen it live.

    For a start he presses extremely well, which is mandatory for a Klopp team. He maintains position, makes important passes and dangerous crosses , tackles and intercepts opposition attacks, organises the team and has endless stamina. Henderson does virtually everything he is asked to by Klopp, and does it well, and that is why he is a regular starter.

    Since you think you know it all, which you clearly don’t btw, can you enlighten us why Klopp, and  even Alonso, are wrong about Henderson, and how you are right?

    But crucially, if you cannot see that each and every one of our regular starting eleven, in our strongest ever Premier League team, deserves to be there on merit, and all of them are doing a good job, then there is no hope for you.

    Tell you what, let’s leave Klopp to keep putting his trust in Henderson (plus underrated players like Matip) and taking Liverpool to new heights, while we’ll leave it you to provide the entertainment factor of denial and delusion

    #1786188
    Davinci
    Davinci
    Participant
    • :

    Songman, I’m seriously trying not to laugh LOOOOL.
    So let’s go through your list of Hendo’s abilities that put him above his peers as a Top Quality player 🙂

    1. He maintains position.
    Did you type this with a straight face? LOL. Ok, so he’s a Top Quality – Position Maintainer.

    2. Makes important passes and dangerous crosses.
    Really. Like when? Not even an assist so far this season and only 3 the whole of last season. Real Top Quality stuff!

    3. Tackles and intercepts opposition attacks.
    I’d agree that chasing and pressing is what he is best at – because basically, he’s just running. But he’s lost more duels than he’s won and lost more aerial battles than he has won. Does he do this better than his peers?

    4. Organises the team.
    Not saying that disorganisation is a wonderful thing but if this is one of the best things you can come up with for him, you are really painting the picture of an average player.

    5. Endless stamina.
    Again, if this is one of the best attributes you could come up with, you really aren’t talking about a Top Quality footballer. We might as well see if Mo Farah wants to swap his running spikes for football boots LOL.

    Just because Hendo fits into Klopps way of playing doesn’t automatically make him a Top Quality player. I’m talking about the player as an individual and as you’ve just shown, your description of him could have been of Drinkwater or Mark Noble. Nothing Top Quality about it at all…Peace

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