Dominic Raab

This topic contains 150 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  Paxman 5 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 41 through 60 (of 151 total)
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  • #1698706
    Luckydestiny
    Luckydestiny
    Participant
    • :

    Gas if you are 50 its about time you started acting your age. See how me and nine respectfully disagree? Thats how adults talk to each other.

    Honestly would never have guessed you were 50, always thought you were a young aggressive lad prone to a drink, its how I explained the immature and needlessly insulting tone of your posts.

    #1698716
    Wonderfuel Gas
    Wonderfuel Gas
    Participant
    • :

    Well there you go mate…you now know I am old enough to know better, am just a bit of a drunk who runs businesses in four countries but still thinks you Brexit lot are a bunch of wrong uns.

    Needlessly insulting? Go back to your own posts mate….it’s all there, I was just holding a mirror up to you.

    You’re not getting anything like the sort of deal you think you voted for though, you need to suck it up and live with what you voted for.

    I’m just glad me and more importantly my wife and kids live in a prosperous city in mainland Europe and won’t really be too affected by your lots decision.

    All the best to you though, even if I think what you trumpeted for is an utterly vile and narrow minded view of the future of the country I grew up in.

    #1698731
    AshCFC
    AshCFC
    Participant
    • :

    I think it’s ironic that the idealism of Brexit was to ‘take back our country’, yet with the current deal proposed we will do anything but. In fact we will be worse off than if we’d stayed!

    Lucky, I admire your conviction and principle on this matter. I agree with much of the sentiment you outline, in terms of not wanting the rich and powerful to control Brussels. However I also share the feelings of many who do not wish to plunge this country into crisis for what will likely be quite a long time.

    I disagree with the perspective that many/most who voted leave knew they’d be in for a tough and sustained period of hardship. Imho the large majority voted in the belief there’d be a virtually instant Utopian outcome that people like myself suspected was undeliverable.

    Personally I’d prefer to stay. I’d prefer to try to fix Brussels from the inside rather than walk away. And especially so given the terms currently tabled.

    I’m a pragmatist at heart. Idealism is a very dangerous thing imho.

    #1698755
    Luckydestiny
    Luckydestiny
    Participant
    • :

    Gassy you werent holding a mirror up yo me at all, I have not referred to anyone as a “thick twat”

    The thing is you may not be intoxicated with alcohol but you are intoxicated with an unhealthy level of certainty which can only lead to intolerance and hatred. There are plenty of non “thick” people who will disagree with you , and who also want what they think is best for the country.

    #1698760
    Luckydestiny
    Luckydestiny
    Participant
    • :

    Ash, both are pragmatic, I believe the long term cost of staying is greater t han the short term cost of leaving.

    #1698765
    Luckydestiny
    Luckydestiny
    Participant
    • :

    You know its hard to take being called narrow minded when your opinion is actually well thought out and considers a wider number of factors than personal bank balance.

    #1698768
    Luckydestiny
    Luckydestiny
    Participant
    • :

    So to summarise the main and most repeated of your points gassy (paraphrasing of course) ” my businesses, 4 businesses, il sod off with my business” “project fear! Project fear!” ” Im 50, im 50″ “you thick twats! “narrow minded ”

    You can see why despite your ability to project a sense of status and authority about you and your opinion, your arguments are no where close to being persuasive.

    #1698775
    AshCFC
    AshCFC
    Participant
    • :

    Your perspective is absolutely reasonable Lucky, and, I believe, underpinned by a genuine care for the whole rather than merely what’s best for you personally. I admire that.

    I share your concern for the whole. However, I’m less sure than you appear to be that leaving is the best option.

    European power brokers aside, I feel a brotherhood with all Europeans, and therefore feel we should continue to try to work together. The UK is one of the strongest European nations, and as such could lead reform of Brussels I think.

    Self-imposed isolation just doesn’t feel right to me, on a fundamental level.

    I’m not sure leaving Europe is a pragmatic. Most Brexiteers I’ve met are anything but. I haven’t personally experienced any shades of grey.

    It’s all about perspective rather than what is definitively right or wrong I suppose. The only thing apparently everyone agrees on is that we’re in for a rough ride!

    Just how rough remains to be seen, but I suspect that many who voted for the Brexit dream would now welcome the chance to change their minds, and in a fair society and with something as serious as this decision, why shouldn’t people be allowed to change their minds having seen a glimpse of the likely realities of their previous decision?

    #1698778
    Luckydestiny
    Luckydestiny
    Participant
    • :

    Who here disagrees with the statement that a state whose policy makers are held accountable to the people is far less corruptible and far more easily correctable than a state in which the policy makers are not accountable?

    Ash I dont think we can change it from the inside, our elected reps vote on laws and legislation that is drafted by the commission which is unelected. We can only have a say on what the commission decides is up for discussion. Our own government will be limited, they will not have control over all the parameters a government needs to control to be able to best govern to the needs of the people. We are allowing democracy to die. It is not idealism, I believe with our without UK in EU the EU is destined for corruption and collapse and that the cost long term for us staying outweigh the short term costs for leaving.

    #1698779
    Luckydestiny
    Luckydestiny
    Participant
    • :

    Ash, my love for europe compels me to be anti EU!

    btw of course you are less certain than me that we should leave, as a remainer it is pretty obvious! Im not certain about anything, but I believe strongly that we need to leave. I can only base my opinion on my principles and understanding of the history of human progress, I dont listen to propaganda or allow myself to be bullied in to getting in line.

    #1698784
    Wonderfuel Gas
    Wonderfuel Gas
    Participant
    • :

    Now you’re just being stupid and overly excitable.

    #1698786
    Luckydestiny
    Luckydestiny
    Participant
    • :

    Thats your opinion classy gassy, wont begrudge you it.

    #1698789
    AshCFC
    AshCFC
    Participant
    • :

    As I do with any considered and passionate opinion put to me, I shall reflect on yours Lucky!

    I of course understand the current mechanics of Brussels, and like you believe it’s grotesquely flawed.

    However, I also believe that it’s fixable if a coalition of like minded countries have the will to do so, and especially the richest countries, of which we are one.

    And btw, I don’t think it’s helpful to categorise people as ‘remainers’ or ‘leavers’ as the implication is that they are immovable in their view.

    Many are of course, but not me. I seriously considered voting to leave, but on balance felt it was not the right thing. That doesn’t necessarily mean my view won’t change going forward, or that I share the ideals of the elite who almost exclusively wish to remain for their own selfish benefit.

    #1698793
    Wonderfuel Gas
    Wonderfuel Gas
    Participant
    • :

    Are you sure you narrow minded little man?

    #1698794
    Luckydestiny
    Luckydestiny
    Participant
    • :

    Was simply refefring to the fact you did vote remain ash, I have no doubt you are open to changing your mind.

    For any change to be made the commission itself would have to deem it worthy of discussing, our elected reps are powerless to force it. We would simply have to hope that a president and his chosen 28 commissioners decide drastic change is needed to the structure of the system which currently has them at the top with a lot of powerful interests competing for their affection.

    #1698795
    Luckydestiny
    Luckydestiny
    Participant
    • :

    Ok then I guess its not-so classy gassy.

    #1698805
    Wonderfuel Gas
    Wonderfuel Gas
    Participant
    • :

    Funny how Brexit fans are so quick to tell you they aren’t narrow minded…even if it hasn’t even been mentioned.

    Funny that.

    #1698813
    Luckydestiny
    Luckydestiny
    Participant
    • :

    Gassy, see your post at 1:40 am, you claimed exactly that so quit talking nonsense and embarrassing yourself on your own thread.

    #1698816
    Wonderfuel Gas
    Wonderfuel Gas
    Participant
    • :

    Point stands despite what may or may not have been said at 1.40. In my experience people who voted for Brexit (and I include my friends in this, not just excitable little scamps like you) are very very quick to point out they aren’t narrow minded.

    And I always wonder why…

    #1698824

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    Come on lads Brexit is a divisionary enough subject without throwing insults around at each other.

    Personally I’m not sure there’s an appetite for a No Deal Brexit either in the Country or indeed in Parliament but plenty of water to flow under the bridge yet so we’ll see.

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