FFP

This topic contains 43 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by Alfie07 Alfie07 2 days, 13 hours ago.

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  • #1725403
    mwake
    mwake
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    • :

    I know rival fans will pick on this one as sour grapes (especially considering Mancity thrashing Chelsea 6-0) but regardless of who wins the league I really do think more has to done to rectify FFP. Man City are an awesome team but let us be honest they aren’t there without the backing of an entire country.

    I’m not saying we are some innocent “little team” but I still think that Citys advantage means even wealthy teams like Liverpool find it difficult to compete. Liverpool was rescued recently from the jaws of bankruptcy and was bailed out by a billionaire group but most of their profits have come from legit sponsorship deals and smart player sales.

    On the other side, you could argue that FFP rules aren’t needed because Spurs are third and Man Utd one of the richest teams in the league are battling for 4th.

    However I understand that Uefa is kinda caught between a rock and a hard place, if they push too much with the FFP then the big clubs will threaten Uefa with leaving and starting their own league.

    But when a team like Liverpool starts to break many of its illustrious club records and still isn’t certain of winning the league it makes me think something is a little wrong.

    #1725408

    Mikus
    Participant
    • :

    I hear you Mwake, and the Spiegel allegations if true, are a disgrace and very dispiriting. But at the same time, no matter how much you spend, no matter how good the coach, it’s the more traditional things that dictate a club’s success. (Indeed City have also blown a good chunk of their money on failed signings). That doesn’t mean those things of money and coaches aren’t important, of course they are. But bear in mind that no team has defended the title in over a decade – Man Utd under Fergie were the last team to do it between 2006-09. And for one main reason imo – that they still had both soul and fight in their team, be it with Scholes, Neville, Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo, etc. Only on things can you sustain any success. With City, I’ve no doubt that Guardiola is good at trying to keep them motivated, and some players obviously do fight at times. But already you can already see them struggling to maintain that consistency this season with the points they’ve dropped. (Also bear in mind that although they were good last season, the premier league was also pretty weak with ourselves, Chelsea, Arsenal & Man Utd all having mixed seasons). Money and a good manager are but 2 of 3 ingredients you need. Fight and soul are the last ingredients. You can chuck as much money as possible at a club. Those are things you can’t buy. Tbh, we’ve still not replaced our soul of Gerrard & Carragher. Would Houllier & Benitez have won the trophies they did without them? No way. But we at least have a smaller more closely knitted group that’s been together for a bit now. And obviously a passionate manager. And we strengthened well last summer. And critical as some may be of TAA, we are at least blooding our youth which I do think is important.

    It all still might not be enough. And I wish we’d been more ruthless in some situations when we could have further extended our lead at the top. But we are where we are. And I’d rather support a team at least built in a more traditional way than the multi billionaires. City may deserve some of the success they have had. But isn’t it interesting how hard they’ve found it to sustain it, no matter how much they’ve thrown at it?? They’re beatable this season, they always were.

    #1725750
    mwake
    mwake
    Participant
    • :

    Admittedly I’ve only heard rumours but those rumours are that city and PSG have circumvented FFP rules by getting sponsorship money from “fake” companies/organization.

    Maybe there should be a rule that top the level teams can only receive sponsorship money from companies that are at least 5 years old. Any investment from companies less than that would be void as part of the FFP calculations. That probably won’t work either lol now I can understand how difficult it is for ufea. The best idea is to just put in transfer caps across Europe. Then at least tv money would have more of a chance of heading to grass roots instead of agent’s and players wages. But that will never happen either as such is the culture.

    #1726116
    mwake
    mwake
    Participant
    • :
    #1726208

    teck
    Participant
    • :

    Scrap FFP. Any club that wants to be bought out as a vanity project by anyone or any entity with too much money should be allowed to.

    The owners of Man City seem to have done a wonderful job of being owners of the club, and done wonderful things for the community. Certainly far more than the Glazers have done.

    But leveraged buyouts must not be allowed, and any monetary injections by owners cannot be allowed in the form of loans, or at the very least cannot be secured against the assets of the clubs (player registrations of stadium grounds etc).

    To further safeguard the interests of supporters, some sort of watchdog with actual power that can prevent asset sales designed merely to funnel proceeds into the owners pockets should the owners decide they want out.

    FFP serves only to entrench the positions of established rich clubs, yes, clubs like our LFC.

    Now I have no trouble with entrenching our position as a ‘rich club’, and I actually think an European Super League that only includes the ‘richest and biggest clubs in Europe should be considered. A closed Super competitive league where the richest clubs are safe from relegation and assured of continued riches forever.

    Do away with the hypocrisy that is FFP. Man Utd are complying with FFP, but can anyone seriously argue that that they make better owners of the club than City’s owners are?

    #1726253
    nediarb2
    nediarb2
    Participant
    • :

    Completely disagree. There should not be a league without relegation. Where’s the fun in that? The attraction of the English leagues are their democratic nature. It’s the only place where winning is not a one or two horse race, it’s the only place where a club like Leicester could pull off a miracle. If it’s just a closed circle of teams taking it in turns to be successful it will soon become tedious.

    #1726317

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
    • :

    I think a super league is a likely thing to happen Teck but not any time soon but there are a number of clubs in the league that want a bigger slice of the tv-revenue, the clubs mainly want to be able to sell their own rights instead of using SKY or another medium as a middle man, who make a killing there.

    I read something mildly interesting about a game in spain the other day, a match with RCD Espanyol, they recently purchased the highest scoring player in the history of the Chinese league. For a modest fee of 2.25 million or something, for his debut from the bench, which lasted 12 minutes about 40 million people tuned in.

    In Spain you can sell your own broadcasting rights, its why Barcelona and Real Madrid have always gotten more than anyone else there. Over here its impossible and right now the only one that would profit if we had bought Wu Lei would be SKY.

    Espanyol are able to sell their games directly to China, imagine what that kind of exposure in the market over there is worth if Wu Lei starts scoring over there, 40 million fans just for his debut from the bench but over here in England SKY controls the rights and sell them further on for a profit.

    #1733080
    mwake
    mwake
    Participant
    • :

    Hopefully, footballing powers will do what they are supposed to do if Man City have proved to have broken FFP rules…

    Manchester City: Alleged financial fair play violations investigated

    #1733083
    garydos
    garydos
    Participant
    • :

    Dont expect drastic punishment if city is found to have broken the rules, most probably a fine of a few thousand quids or couple of transfer window ban or just a slap on the wrist. UEFA just dont have the balls to offend all these clubs with rich owners, fearing they might lose their cash cows.

    Unfortunately, football has become so commercialised that it is all about the money and no longer about the sport. The footballing body are only interested in how to make more money rather than improving the experience of the game.

    #1733088
    mwake
    mwake
    Participant
    • :

    Good point garydos. Don’t worry I’m not holding my breath lol… especially when you realize things like PSGs owner Nasser Al-Khelaifi on Uefa’s executive committee.

    #1733298
    mwake
    mwake
    Participant
    • :

    Latest News is that the Premier League are now investigating city but I wonder that is probably just a token action just to make it look like they are doing something.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/dcunited/uae-sports-chief-would-back-uefa-punishment-of-man-city/2019/03/07/0be8b290-4101-11e9-85ad-779ef05fd9d8_story.html?noredirect=on

    #1734134
    mwake
    mwake
    Participant
    • :

    Man city’s fans sweating over investigations. 1700 posts in 4 days in bluemoon website.

    https://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/threads/uefa-officially-investigating-city-for-alleged-ffp-violation-summary-on-p164.339272/

    #1734147

    Songman
    Participant
    • :

    City success is due to money above all else, their net spend over the last few years substantially dwarfs every team in world footall.

    Still don’t think they’ll get a major punishment like a points deduction. Their UAE owners are far too corrupt to allow this to happen, that’s just the way the world works

    #1734175
    GellerBing
    GellerBing
    Participant
    • :

    Songman has any club been deducted points due to FFP? I can’t recall this punishment ever getting enacted.

    That said, I would not rejoice even if City got their points deducted. If we are finally going to end the drought and win the PL, I want us to win in the most legit manner possible. It would only add an asterisk to our league triumph if that were to happen.

    #1734179

    Songman
    Participant
    • :

    Grllerbing, I just gave “points deduction” as an example of severe punishment.

    There are other forms of punishment such as a transfer embargo for a year or more like happened to Chelsea

    #1734255
    Rob Fort Worth TX
    Rob Fort Worth TX
    Participant
    • :

    Geller, don’t think the ‘points thing’ has ever happened and unlikely to happen unless UEFA ask the Premier League to intervene. Likely scenario is (seeing as they are repeat offenders!) is a hefty fine and a ban from CL football.

    #1734353
    mwake
    mwake
    Participant
    • :

    The thing is the allegations only serve to highlight the weakness of FFP rather than how ‘dirty’ man city are. Man City have been quite savvy and used their money men to think of sly ways to overcome FFP, such as setting up side companies or investing in 3rd party companies who in turn provide the ‘sponsorship’ money.

    One scary thing that I read on another forum:

    “The last time UEFA threatened to do anything, Man City threatened to tie them up in so many legals knots, UEFA had to back down and give them a suspended punishment, and a slap on the wrist (with a squad reduction). I suspect the same will happen here or even less.

    The Arabs are so powerfully petty, they would rather spend 200m on lawyers to fight a case against UEFA (and cost UEFA themselves shed loads of money), than to accept paying a 50m fine. They said as much to UEFA the last time.

    UEFA are snookered. I’ll be surprised if they actually find anything in their “investigation” because finding something would actually mean they would have to do something about it. If anything, this latest investigation will be used to clear their name (ha!).”

    FFP City…SixCrazyMinutes.com

    #1735145

    Songman
    Participant
    • :

    Transfer ban for them is on the way quite shortly, and rightly so

    #1735163
    Alfie07
    Alfie07
    Participant
    • :

    Difference this time being that UEFA have already been taken to court over the legality of FFP and the court backed UEFA. The decision on the legality of FFP has been made and City will have trouble to get this in court as they would have to show some fundamental difference or new piece of evidence which would make the judge give a different decision to that of the earlier case.

    Key here is that City are not denying the allegations, just saying that the evidence is due to hacking (which makes no difference in the eyes of the law – look at the recent cases for tax avoidance which came as a result of hacking and leaked Panama papers), or that it has been taken out of context.

    UEFA are facing heavy pressure, not least by the Liverpool owners (who brought Liverpool partly due to FFP which they thought allowed them to compete fairly), to take action against teams who breach FFP. The PSG chairman is a ECA representative on the UEFA executive board, he will be removed by the ECA if he interferes. Worth noting that UEFA have a separate committee for FFP too.

    #1735258

    kopite
    Participant
    • :

    Worth a thought, if ManC gets banned from CL, will the 5th place EPL team get their place.

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