Henderson

This topic contains 696 replies, has 33 voices, and was last updated by MrMakaveli MrMakaveli 5 years, 3 months ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 521 through 540 (of 697 total)
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  • #1696644
    Sanj1
    Sanj1
    Participant
    • :

    Bofa, Henderson isn’t an aggressive player but I don’t feel he is a coward either as Davinci described him. Milner is tigerish in the challenge & Henderson more gazelle-like in comparison, but I think it takes different types of players to make a decent team. I accept Henderson isn’t everybody’s cup of tea, but then not everybody likes tea either. The only persons opinion in this who matters is the manager of the club & so far Kenny, Brendan & Jurgen feel he is good enough in our engine room. He certainly would not still be at LFC as Captain if he were mentally weak either. Do I think there are better midfield players than him out there ? Yes, but then if I was manager Jonjo Shelvey would still be with us. It’s up to Jurgen to find the upgrades & promote them. Apology if my opinion isn’t popular on this, but it’s honest & I’m not trying to upset anybody with it. Enjoy your evening & the game tomorrow all. Cheers & Ynwa ☺

    #1696647
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
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    Your opinion is fine. You’ve not suggested that others think inside a small box. You’ve not taunted anyone with BS from before. You’ve actually said something about Henderson and I’d agree with you in some way. I too wouldn’t describe Henderson as a coward, that’s harsh for me. He doesn’t tackle at all though , so I can see where that discussion comes from. It does annoy me when Hendo doesn’t tackle and I think he should. I don’t see this as good discipline, like some do. He tries to make up for this weakness by harrying the opposition and that can work sometimes but he’s ineffectual other times and lets people past him.

    I think Davinci asked a good question though. What is something that he can do that people would want to see in or (other) top star?

    #1696648
    j c
    j c
    Participant
    • :

    Mak, it’s not because I disagree, it’s because it’s a ridiculous comment.

    Much like the idea that (practically) the whole team needs to be axed, to win titles. How are we going to win titles with 3 players left? Lmao

    If/when Henderson (or anyone else) pulls from a challenge, there’s many possible reasons. To hold position and protect the space, because the other guy is getting there first, but messing up the hair? You don’t even mess your hair diving in for a tackle unless you’re going in head first like Phil Jones?! I think I’m allowed to laugh at that.

    Good post bofa, I’m inclined to agree with you on Davinci. I mean he’s now saying Henderson was a proven 6 out of 10 player in 13/14. I saw him dominate the midfield against some really good teams, and he was an influential part of our league challenge that season.

    Most likely Davinci is talking about the made up rating system in his head, then passing it off as a legitimate argument. There’s a few credible rating systems out there, and none of them rate Henderson as a 6 out of 10 player.
    Although I guess that could just be because they aren’t as qualified as Davinci, when it comes to giving accurate, insightful and truly unbiased ratings.

    #1696650

    bofa
    Participant
    • :

    Sanj1: I agree, he’s not a coward and I don’t think he’s a bad player either. I just don’t see him at the level that others on here do. I think he’s been lucky over the past few years in that he hasn’t had great competition in midfield which is a real shame for a club of the stature of Liverpool. If we had better options and better purchases, then I believe he wouldn’t be in the running for a midfield spot but in reality, there isn’t much of a gap between him and the rest of the midfielders currently. I don’t think he’s a top midfielder but none of of other midfielders have been proven to be either!

    Just because Klopp and previous managers pick him doesn’t actually mean he’s that good, it just means that we don’t have a wealth of talent in that position and that has been proven in recent performances. Then, you have to ask the question, do they pick him because he’s a great player or the best of an average bunch or do they pick him because they’ve all made mistakes and not brought in better players? This is what makes football more complex than just individual opinions… there’s no real answer to it.

    I can assure you Sanj1, you’re certainly not upsetting me and if anyone else is upset, than that’s their issue. However, you have to ask the question, is Henderson that good that all previous managers picked him or have they all failed in their task of bringing in better players?

    Klopp has been been brilliant to date in the transfer market. If Keita and Fabinho come through as most of his signings have, Henderson will spend much more time on the bench. If not, has Klopp also failed in the midfield area?

    #1696651
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
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    JC, fair enough but it’s just something that went on and on and with the other evasive stuff from some others, this thread went nowhere. Maybe it wouldn’t have had legs anyway but..,

    #1696652
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
    • :

    JC, fair enough but it’s just something that went on and on and with the other evasive stuff from some others, this thread went around in the usual circles when people get their backs up.

    Moving on though, I don’t know about thee rating systems that you’re talking about but I would personally call Henderson a 6/10 player. I guess it depends on what 5 represents though. from a normal system, 5 is average but of course average of what is the question. All players? PL players? Top half of PL Players? I assume it’s not an all players situation cause then everyone at Liverpool is a 9+. That wouldn’t be very useful to us.

    I’ll go with Pl or top half o the PL level of quality and say that he’s above average. 6/10 is above average and that’s where I’d rate him, I think. I hadn’t ever thought of him in an out of 10 situation but we’re a top club and all of the players here have to be of a high standard.

    #1696654
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
    • :

    Sorry for double post, my browser has gone nuts and was posting as I was typing…

    #1696658
    Sanj1
    Sanj1
    Participant
    • :

    This is worth a read Bofa from the scout who recommended Hendo.

    https://www.planetfootball.com/in-depth/the-scout-who-told-spurs-to-sign-bale-explains-why-liverpool-missed-out-on-alli/

    Hendo & Alli in the LFC midfield might have been interesting, Leads me to think about lfc midfield partnerships.

    We just haven’t found one since Stevie went.

    Stevie had Gary Mac in 2001, Alonso in 2005 & Hendo in 2014 with Lucas almost ever present from 2007 & Mascherano in the mix too. Kwality !

    Perhaps it’s just that we haven’t quite replaced Gerrard, rather than Hendo is a poor replacement for Gerrard. We actually replaced Stevie with Milner. Maybe we need Pulisic with Hendo/ Milner to really get our midfield in gear. Ynwa ☺

    #1696659
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
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    Well, we never replaced our Captain for sure. I would say that Milner was brought in to replace Henderson, if anyone. Or the club just wanted to get some quality in. It’s afterwards where Henderson’s changed and he was dropped deeper.

    #1696660
    Sanj1
    Sanj1
    Participant
    • :

    Come to think of it, would Jordan in a midfield with a peak Stevie, Mascherano, Alonso & Lucas be better than he is with Wiji, Milly, Lallana, Keita, Fabinho ? Cheers ☺

    #1696661
    Sanj1
    Sanj1
    Participant
    • :

    Milly came in on a free to replace Stevie who left for LA Galaxy in 2015 if memory serves. Cheers ☺

    #1696662
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
    • :

    Well he wouldn’t get near Rafa’s best midfield, not many would though. You’re talking about 3 world class players in their peak.

    Our midfield right at this moment doesn’t look that fantastic because we have issues there. Keita and Fabinho need time but we don’t know where they will be in 6 months. They could be considered flops or Sky might be going on about whether it’s too early to call them world class yet. We just don’t know. As fir Milner and Wijnaldum, I rated them both very highly but they’ve not done it in the last 2-3 games. They were exceptional before that though. Lallana was brilliant in one of his seasons under Klopp, he’s up against it now but if he can shake the injuries then ya, he could be decent for us but I’m kinda looking at him more and more as being in a similar boat to Henderson. Good squad players. I’d like to see an extended run in the team from Lallana before I’m sure of that myself because he’s always worked well with Klopp. Those bloody injuries etc…

    Now, to your questions, what do the pro-Henderson people have to say to it ? Surely nobody is mad enough to suggest that he’d get in the team before Rafa’s 3?

    #1696663
    Razor
    Razor
    Participant
    • :

    Mak.. To be fair I think Henderson at his peak (i.e. 13/14) would have at least had Rafa’s midfield looking over their shoulders. He would’ve given us a different dimension anyway. Then again knowing Rafa he would’ve put Gerrard on the left and Hendo in the #10 role or vice versa because the options on the wing were awful for the most part. If the injuries hadn’t piled up on him I daresay he would’ve been a far more influential player in his favoured box-to-box position. As it stands though I’m disappointed with the way things have turned out regarding Henderson.

    #1696664
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
    • :

    I only want to compare him as a CM but you’re right, Rafa would have found a better place for him , if it existed. The guy is a genius and we did lack talent out wide. This kinda moves me onto something that I’ve only briefly mentioned and if this thread does anything for me, it’ll be this.

    Henderson is too top heavy. There are players who don’t seem to follow their recommendations from the sports science boys and Henderson is one of them. I have been reminded of this because, he’s obviously too heavy and gravity unfriendly to be a winger/wide player etc… but he used to play out wide right? I might argue that he wasn’t this balled up when he was good under Rodger and maybe that has cost him. Now, I know that me saying this will upset the people who fap to Hendo in the new away jersey but this is me wondering more than stating, for the last bit.

    I don’t think he puts much pressure on Gerrard, Mach, Alonso at all. I get hwat you’re saying because back then we had the first 11 and then we had one decent player after that and that was pretty much it. The rest were a huge drop off. Now we are lacking the world class element but instead we’ve got 6-8 really good -> good players. I am counting Fabinho and Keita as really good. They may go on to be world class.. Who knows.

    #1696676

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    “There are players who don’t seem to follow their recommendations from the sports science boys and Henderson is one of them.”

    Anything, at all, to back that claim up?

    #1696696

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
    • :

    Ginger… Its an opinion, you know… An opinion which is not backed up by any evidence. I really love those, they broaden the horizon for us. Make us see things that are not there haha…

    #1696698
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
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    Yes, the evidence is that he’s not got a balanced muscle build. That is self evident, by looking at him.

    #1696706

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    You’ve claimed that (a) Henderson has been given recommendations by the sports science people and that (b) he’s ignored their recommendations.

    Looking at him does not back up those claims whatsoever in any way because you would need to know what those recommendations where, if the were any, and then you would need to know that he’s ignored them by doing something contrary to what he’s been told.

    I thought this thread had went off the ridiculous edge many pages ago but this is a completely new level of ridiculousness.

    #1696715
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
    • :

    You’re right, it is ridiculous to assume that the sports science guys and other members of staff would give all of the players instruction regards to a balanced exercise regime.

    You’re right, they have everyone else at absolutely optimal levels but they’ve decided to tell Henderson to do too many weights for a prank.

    It’s hilarious that you think that you need to know exactly what conversations have gone on when you can just look at the player yourself. Tell me this Ginger, if someone totalled your car as you were tucked in bed, would you not bother coming down to have a look yourself , or would you need to call the mechanic to ask him if there was any damage?

    I think that given everything you’ve said in this thread, you would actually be unable to assess the situation for yourself.

    #1696718

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    What were these recommendations that Henderson was given and then ignored?

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