If Jose leaves or gets the sack, who should the board appoint?

This topic contains 110 replies, has 24 voices, and was last updated by  hookeddevil 5 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 41 through 60 (of 111 total)
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  • #1665772

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
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    CM, if Jose goes I’m sure Jardim would come into consideration massive massive step up though from Monaco to United. But he’s an attack minded Coach which fits United’s DNA.

    #1665777

    CM
    Participant
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    Agree Nine it is a big step up. Yet it is a risk worth imo. Klopp to Liverpool was a massive step up from Dortmund. Ferguson from Aberdeen to United. You can say Jose from Porto to Chelsea, he was under pressure to deliver their first trophy in decades. Look at Arsenal with Wenger all those years ago, he was managing a Japanese team at the time. Jardim did well at Monaco when noone gave them a chance against PSG. He has a fair few trophies behind him, good at developing youngsters and has a good eye on talent.

    #1665780

    mufc
    Participant
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    Jardim to United would be a step down for him.

    #1665783

    Scholsey
    Participant
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    Can Mourinho afford to lose the United job, as I don’t believe there would be a lot of top side rushing to sign him up?

    Wouldn’t he be better off just biting his lip and getting on with it winning a trophy and getting the bored to buy into his philosophy?

    Pochettino would be my pick, closely followed by a big Ron comeback.

    #1665797
    Ika
    Ika
    Participant
    • :

    CM I agree Jardim would be a great choice.

    Happy do your home work he kicked both Pep and Poch’s backside in the CL the year Monaco reached the semis and kicked Emry’s in Ligue 1 spending a 3rd of what PSG spent.

    My number 1 choice is Alegri but that’s because of his pedigree.

    Mac sorry completely disagree with you about moulding a manager and waiting a few seasons for him to come good like Fergie and here is my reasoning.

    If you look at the managers who have won the PL since Wenger won it in 1998 no manager has taken more than 2 seasons to win the PL and only Wenger and Fergie have won after being their 3rd season being at a club.

    Here is the list quite an eye opener and you will find similar records with managers who won the CL.

    Wenger joined Arsenal 1997 won 1998
    Jose joined Chelsea 2003 won 2004
    Carlo joined Chelsea 2009 won 2010
    Mancini joined city 2010 won 2012
    Pelegrini joined city 2013 won 2014
    Jose joined Chelsea 2013 won 2015
    Ranieri joined Leicester 2015 won 2016
    Conti joined Chelsea 2016 won 2017
    Pep joined city 2016 won 2018

    Pep said something along the lines that a squad can only be successful for 3 years at which point you need a change of players or a change of manager to freshen things up in Fergies case he used to always freshen the squad up, I would say he had 4 different teams during his time with us.

    #1665799

    Scholsey
    Participant
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    So are you saying Mourinho, Klopp & Poch are all wasting their time and should all look for new jobs? Sure Kenny Dalglish was at Blackburn a few years before he won the league.

    #1665855
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
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    @ika – Like Scholsey suggests, not sure I follow your point. You seem to be saying, unless a manager wins the PL in his first 2 seasons the club would be better off changing managers.

    The problem with that is what happens about players. New manager comes and has a clear out of players he doesn’t like, signs players then the new manager comes and clears out the players the previous manager signed eg JM, LvG. AND there’s hardly a motivation for managers to focus on developing youth.

    Your list largely ignores the teams the manager inherited and spending. Its easier for a new manager to win if the club gives him a blank cheque to sign however many players he wants. And your list looks at the successes with new managers whilst ignoring the failures.

    And what’s the effect of managerial merry-go-round on the club and behind the scenes operations eg. scouts, youth teams, staff etc. Were you one of those complaining that Moyes replaced Fergies staff.

    If Pep thinks a squad can only be successful for 3 years he should talk to Fergie. Sure SAF had different teams, what do you expect over 20 years. And yes, freshening up is needed BUT if you move on players that happens naturally. It doesn’t if you want to keep the likes of Carrick til 36 but if you moved them (and deadwood) on sooner you get plenty of fresheners.

    And how can we expect players to develop loyalty to the club if the club doesn’t show it to the manager and the manager not show it to the club. How can we moan at Pogba Martial wanting to move on when the manager is likely to move on himself.

    #1665885

    hookeddevil
    Participant
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    Surely it depends on the structure of the club. At a club with a Director of Football or a transfer board or whatever, I can see an argument for saying that if a coach hasn’t brought success within a couple of seasons then it’s likely they never will. In this set-up the coach doesn’t have responsibility for the long term vision or player recruitment. They have been hired because they fit the ‘philosophy’ in place at the club, they are responsible for training and match day performance.
    SAF and Wenger were far more omnipotent in their roles. This approach requires time and resources for the manager to shape the squad and develop the playing style to their way. When this approach goes wrong it usually requires a massive rebuild – LVG’s style to Mourinho.
    With Utd looking for a Director of Football I can see a change in approach coming.

    #1665895
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @hookeddevil – Fair comment, having a DoF changes the dynamics and as Jose said, turns the manager into just a head coach.e

    And it beggars the question whether those advocating frequent managerial changes would want the same for the DoF. What if his signings and playing instructions were the reason for lack of success.

    btw – the club tried to have similar to DoF when Busby was made General Manager and McGuiness manager.

    #1665910
    Ika
    Ika
    Participant
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    Scholesy I clearly said after Dalglish and yes I am saying klopp poch and Jose have no hope of winning league.

    Mac for somebody who looks at facts over opinion I am surprised you dismiss the fact no manager in the last 20 years has taken more than 2 years to win league.

    The days of building teams over a course of years is a thing of the past.

    #1665914

    CM
    Participant
    • :

    Ika has a good point. In the PL era no manager has won the PL after being there for more than 2 full seasons with the exception of Ferguson and Dalglish.

    Wenger- 1st full season
    Jose Mourinho- 1st full season
    Ancelotti- 1st full season
    Mancini- 2nd full season
    Mourinho- 2nd full season
    Ranieri- 1st full season
    Conte- 1st full season
    Guardiola- 2nd full season

    #1665915

    Scholsey
    Participant
    • :

    Ika, I just thought I would point it out as you came across like it couldn’t happen again.

    Could this potentially be more a City & Chelsea stat? Since 2000 apart from 1 team it’s been all about them?

    #1665918

    mufc
    Participant
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    Does the director of football decide on which players to sign, or does he just negotiate with the player/agents that the manager wants? As in a middle man?

    #1665920
    Ika
    Ika
    Participant
    • :

    I mean this is not a stat I have pulled out of thin air.

    Wenger joined Arsenal 1997 won 1998
    Jose joined Chelsea 2003 won 2004
    Carlo joined Chelsea 2009 won 2010
    Mancini joined city 2010 won 2012
    Pelegrini joined city 2013 won 2014
    Jose joined Chelsea 2013 won 2015
    Ranieri joined Leicester 2015 won 2016
    Conti joined Chelsea 2016 won 2017
    Pep joined city 2016 won 2018

    People talk about Poch he joined Spurs 2014 and came closest to winning title in 2016 the year Leicester won it since the following year they were nowhere near Chelsea and last only got top on the final week of the season.

    If you look at all the managers who won the CL in the last 10 years and it’s the same no manager winning the CL has taken more than 2 seasons to do it.

    The one thing that is common with most of the club’s bar Leicester is that they all have a sporting director in place who dictates style of play players to fit into that style of play and a coach to coach them in the modern era that is how you build success.

    #1665921
    Ika
    Ika
    Participant
    • :

    I mean this is not a stat I have pulled out of thin air.

    Wenger joined Arsenal 1997 won 1998
    Jose joined Chelsea 2003 won 2004
    Carlo joined Chelsea 2009 won 2010
    Mancini joined city 2010 won 2012
    Pelegrini joined city 2013 won 2014
    Jose joined Chelsea 2013 won 2015
    Ranieri joined Leicester 2015 won 2016
    Conti joined Chelsea 2016 won 2017
    Pep joined city 2016 won 2018

    People talk about Poch he joined Spurs 2014 and came closest to winning title in 2016 the year Leicester won it since the following year they were nowhere near Chelsea and last only got top on the final week of the season.

    If you look at all the managers who won the CL in the last 10 years and it’s the same no manager winning the CL has taken more than 2 seasons to do it.

    The one thing that is common with most of the club’s bar Leicester is that they all have a sporting director in place who dictates style of play, players to fit into that style of play and a coach to coach them in the modern era that is how you build success.

    #1665934
    Ika
    Ika
    Participant
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    Apologies for the grammar sitting in a departure lounge waiting for my plane home so rushed it.

    #1665937
    hatters
    hatters
    Participant
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    @ika. Couldn’t agree with you more about how modern football works.

    As I have said before, stability and consistency of vision must come from board level and preferably from a Director of Football who has a 5-10 year plan. Style, type of players signed, scouting strategy, academy strategy, and culture of the club should sit with the DoF.

    The managers should be interchangeable and their main function should be coaching, tactics, and motivation.

    #1665963

    hookeddevil
    Participant
    • :

    A good point raised by Mac, what happens when/if the DoF gets it wrong or is perceived to be making poor choices?
    It seems to me that appointing a DoF is a way of splitting the traditional managers role into two parts. How is the DoF to be judged?

    #1665966

    happyhurling
    Participant
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    Hatters – Don’t Southampton have a Director of Football?

    #1665983

    Manthistle
    Participant
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    russelManc – I stopped reading after Manthickehead. Twat.

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