Is there a solution to modern day terrorism

This topic contains 177 replies, has 21 voices, and was last updated by  mufc 3 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #1499247
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    What extreme Muslims do is against Islam
    @mufc – I’m not so sure. Jihad, martyrdom, 77 virgins, the duty to defend brother muslims from infidels, punishments for sinners the obligation to convert the world to Islam etc etc. The Koran can be ambigous AND in terms of modern society much is outdated eg slavery, apostates, women’s rights, homosexuality, usury etc. How can any muslim defend Islams acceptance of slavery, wife beating etc.

    they will use Syria, Iraq, Palesteine etc as reasons
    Foreign interference in arab nations is perhaps a just reason as is the support for Israel.

    To resolve this will be a huge job,
    Agreed but muslims have done nothing about many issues for centuries. The christian church has reformed and adapted to many (not all) changes in society.

    it will require a global effort and solution.
    Agreed but surely the onus is on muslims to put their house in order. Even if terrorism did not exist you still have the problems of womens rights etc.

    Saying it’s a global problem seems like a way of fobbing the problem off onto western leaders so muslims can go doing nothing. What are the muslims doing? Saudi is financing the export of extremism through their mosques and clerics.

    @steveosnakeeye – I have made several suggestions. I’ll jot down a list when I have time.

    #1499253

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    What should we do to these genetically inferior beings to stop the spread?
    Perhaps we should sterilise them, that would help.
    Perhaps a ban on people marrying them too.
    Could we maybe separate these genetically inferior humans in some way from the rest of the population to stop them mixing?
    I think we might be on to something here.

    #1499268

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    Hold on a cotton picking minute!
    I’ve got it!

    Instead of locking them up in some sort of camp we could maybe get some use out of them. Would be a shame to waste them. We’ve already established that they’re genetically inferior to us, lesser than us if you will, some maybe even say sub human so why not round them up and put them to work.
    We could send them to farms and they could work in the fields. I’m sure you wouldnt have to pay them a full wage either so that would be great for the economy. They may even replace all the foreign workers that are/will leave due to Brexit.
    It’s widely known that they’re less intelligent too so should they be allowed to vote? Not sure ?? Perhaps that’s something for further down the line.
    There’s definitely something in this lads, I like where it’s going.

    #1499284

    bloggy
    Spectator
    • :

    Ginger;

    …or we could simply make first cousin marriages illegal in this country…

    #1499289
    Al The Gooner
    Al The Gooner
    Participant
    • :

    Mac, Islamic terrorism is a far more complicated issue than a stand against foreign influence in the Middle East and support of Israel.

    Just a week or so ago, ISIS attacked Mecca as Muslims were celebrating the end of Ramadan. Nothing to do with foreign influence in the Middle East whatsoever.

    The kidnapping of more than 200 schoolgirls by Boko Haram was nothing to do with the West.

    ISIS’ declared goal of creating a worldwide caliphate has nothing to do Western influence and the countries where they’ve already started creating this caliphate are all Muslim countries.

    The vast majority of Islamic fundamentalist attacks are carried out in Asia and Africa, against Christian minorities and other Muslim sects.

    There is undoubtedly a case that Western involvement helps radicalise the young and stupid, but trying to apply any real logic to the thought process of this pond-life is a mistake that will only see terror attacks grow bigger and even more frequent.

    There is no endgame for the likes of ISIS. We could pull every single Caucasian out of the Middle East and the attacks will continue. It would be naive to think otherwise and shows a basic lack of understanding of what these scum are all about. Unfortunately, it’s this very naivety that’s stopping us from doing what really needs to be done and that, again unfortunately, is to sink to their level, take the gloves off and exterminate these vermin once and for all.

    Human rights are a consideration that ISIS and their ilk are not entitled to and the longer people think there is some kind of diplomatic solution, the longer ISIS will continue to murder and maim, both their fellow Muslims and us “Kafirs”.

    #1499291

    bloggy
    Spectator
    • :

    Ginger;

    Given that you’ve not offered any sort of an argument in dispute of the facts and figures quoted regarding Muslim inbreeding and the consequences thereof, it appears that you’re back to your usual default position of deflection.

    Perhaps, rather than waste time chasing your obscure thought process round and around this page as Jay did recently, it might be time to treat your comments in the same manner the board has adopted with Paxo’s posts…namely, ignoring them!…

    #1499292

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    But we still have all these genetically inferior humans running about being less intelligent and what not.
    They dont know whats best for themselves so I say send them out to the fields where they can be useful. They couldn’t be trusted nor able for anything else and they’d probably appreciate the opportunity. A whole new industry could be started. Land owners could trade their best workers to other land owners. This could really stimulate the economy.
    Who else can we deem as genetically inferior?
    We’re getting somewhere now.

    #1499298
    Dandy
    Dandy
    Participant
    • :

    Ginger – I’m still waiting for your counter argument to any of the points made on the thread. When you’ve managed to come up with a constructive argument give me a shout. You’re part of the problem trying to stifle and belittling genuine viewpoints purely because you disagree….I’m sure there’s a word for that ….

    #1499307
    j c
    j c
    Participant
    • :

    Agreed, I think first cousin marriage should be made illegal asap.
    It’s heavily frowned upon in British families and British culture, and that stigma prevents it happening. But in some families and cultures it’s actually encouraged unfortunately. And then white knight libtards like ginger actually defend it.
    Nothing wrong with stigmatising first cousin marriage, since it is damaging to those who engage in it, their children, and society.

    #1499310
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    SOLUTIONS

    @steveosnakeeyes ……….

    REFUGEES – Curb.Cut influx of refugees. Refugees should reside in nearest safe country/region. Provide assistance to those countries to accomodate refugees. Set up safe zones in conflict areas defended by military forces. Any refugee entering UK is granted temporary residence only and barred from citizenship.

    IMMIGRANTS – Curb cut number of immigrants. Grant temporary work permits renewable up to 5 years. In case of marriage to UK citizen the couple must leave the country and apply for permanent residence from home country after period of 1-2 years. Immigrants must undergo suitability test to demonstrate acceptance of UK values.

    OATH – Citizenship and public office shall require an oath of allegiance that accepts UK core values. This shall also apply to teachers and preachers.

    RELIGION – All public places of worship (including religous schools) must be registered, approved. The religion (faith) must be registered and approved.

    DOCTRINE – Approval shall require review of the religious writings (eg Bible Koran) and teachings eg doctrines. It shall also require documents stating code of conduct, procedures, principles etc. This shall include criteria for clerics and teachers. Should the religion/doctrine contain teachings/texts contrary to UK values it shall be edited. Originals shall only be maintained for historical study.

    CLERICS – The religous body must vet clerics, teachers including background check and police clearance ie fit and proper test. Records shall be kept of infringements and disciplinary action. Periodic internal and third party reviews shall take place.

    MEETINGS – All meetings within the place of worship shall be authorised and supervised by person responsible for the place of worship. This prevents “prayer groups” huddled together preaching unauthorised doctrine. The place of worship is subject to penalties.

    LITERATURE – Any literature (pamphlet, video, poster) on the place of worship (POW) grounds that breaches law shall result in penalty for those possessing it and the POW.

    FINANCES – Accounts must be kept identifying source of funds and large donations.

    MARRIAGE – Both partners shall be interviewed in private to ensure they are not coerced. Coercion being a crime. Declarations of relations to spouse (ie blood relative) required.

    POLICE – Police (security services) shall have increased budget and resources to handle religous crimes and terrorism. They shall actively seek to infiltrate groups of concern.

    INVESTIGATE – Muslim communities and community officials and security for coercion of muslims eg women not adhering to muslim dress code.

    BURKHA – Ban burkha (religous symbols) at schools and places likely to cause disorder.

    INFORMANTS – Police shall maintain informants at POW. They shall have money for these informants and.or the power to give immunity for petty crimes to those acting as informants.

    ACCOMPLICE – Anybody having knowledge of possible crimes (eg preaching incitement, terrorism) shall be subject to penalties.

    SOLICITATION – Preaching of unauthorised (unacceptable) doctrines in public (ie the street) shall be a crime.

    SUPPORT – Nations, organisations, individuals providing resources or support for the propogation of unacceptable teachings shall be penalised.

    TRAVEL – Permits shall be required for travel to certain nations (eg Syria). Passport stamps, permits shall be reviewed by immigration on re-entry. Interviews may be conducted if travel without documentation to nearby nations (eg Turkey).

    FREEDOMS – State shall have powers to curtail freedoms of suspects or those convicted of relevant crimes eg ban use of computer, electronic taggings, restraining orders. Technology developed for tagging implants.

    SURVEILLANCE – Courts shall grant police surveillance powers for suspects. Database of persons of interest maintained and citizens informed they are on the database and reason. Citizen can petition for removal. Internet companies compelled to provide police access to monitor communication of suspects under court order.

    INTELLIGENCE – Infiltrate foreign terrorist groups.

    EMMIGRATION – State shall promote emmigration of (extreme) muslims to muslim countries and negotiate arrangements with muslim countries to promote immigration.

    AWARENESS – Government in conjuction with muslim communities shall conduct public awareness campaigns against extremism and promoting british values.

    STRIKES – Coordinate – assist USA in surgical strikes against terrorists.

    ISRAEL – Oppose Israel expansion into occupied territories. Demand observance of UN resolutions and treatment of Palestinians.

    SAUDI – Oppose human rights abuses, support for extremism and push for democratic government.

    CALIPHATE – Explore possibility of creation of ISIS state in the region.

    IRAQ – Oppose sectarian discrimination and injustice.

    ISIS – Promote the creation of a political wing to discuss peaceful solutions.

    #1499311

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    Al, so Jeremy’s strategy of giving the terrorists a hug isn’t going to work then?

    #1499316
    Stuilse
    Stuilse
    Participant
    • :

    As I said…sarcastic bugger. The chip on his shoulder has become a large rock..or a spud farm…depends how u look at it. So Ginger, apart from extermination and slave labour as suggestions to dealing with this issue, any mature suggestions to contribute?

    A few have been mentioned.

    – Ban marrying of brothers, sisters & cousins in this country.
    – Deport all people returning from the likes of Syria and Iraq…put a law in place which states that if anyone travels to those regions to support extremism…they won’t be allowed back.
    – Mosque leaders need to be more accountable. Their should be an open channel of comms between them, community leaders, police and local government.
    – People that are on watch-lists need to be brought in for questioning.
    – Moderate Muslims need to be as outspoken about extremism and terrorist acts as everybody else…they need to condemn it in the strongest possible manner.
    – Maybe the option of having ‘informers’ that infiltrate mosques and communities harbouring suspected radicals should be introduced. All info found out to be relayed to the authorities.
    – Muslims should be encouraged to integrate into the communities they’re part of. Workshops, conferences, forums…anything to encourage inclusion.
    – Mosques known to harbour extremists should be shut down.
    – Sharia Law should be outlawed in the UK with immediate affect. You live in this country you abide by the law and rules of this country.

    Feel free to add more……

    #1499320

    bloggy
    Spectator
    • :

    jc;

    Spot on mate. Don’t you think it odd that the bleeding heart liberals on this page are not up in arms regarding first cousin marriage given the enormous damage caused to children?

    Here’s an interesting one for you. Polygamous marriage is of course illegal in the UK. However, currently, polygamous marriages are recognised in this country if they took place in countries where they are legal, such as Middle Eastern states, Pakistan or Zambia. Current estimates put the number of polygamous marriages amongst the British Muslim community at around twenty thousand.

    Currently benefits are paid to a husband and his first wife at the rate of £114.85 a week. Subsequent spouses living under the same roof receive around £40 each. However under the new system of Universal Credit, due to be fully implemented by by 2021, polygamous marriages will not be recognised at all. The standard allowance is about £499 a month for couples, but single people can claim about £320 a month. That means the husband and his first wife can claim the married couples allowance and subsequent wives will be able to claim a single persons allowance.

    Well done the British Government. Let’s reward a system of marriage deemed to be illegal in this country, with a big cash bonus! Has the World gone fucking mad?? Would the answer to polygamous marriage, not to be simply to refuse entry to this country for husbands with multiple wives?

    Sometimes I truly do despair!

    #1499321
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @Al The Gooner – The root cause is the muslim fundamentalist desire for a global caliphate under Islam. This then manifest into various branches. Western interference in the Middle East is a block to the establishment of a Caliphate, as is support for Israel and governments in Iraq, Afghanistan etc.

    Muslims breaking Islamic rules are targets (the guy killed in Glasgow). The Saudi monarchy (to an extent) are targets for not fully enforcing Shariah.

    I agree the majority of attacks are on muslims BUT that is not our primary concern. The west gets some “attention” (ie attacks) because the west is to some extent opposing the creation of the caliphate be it directly fighting ISIS or indirectly through support for Israel and Saudi etc. It is also a force against Shariah by having muslims living western lifestyles and opposing fundamental belief. Just as Afghanistan harboured Al Quaeda the West harbours progressive muslims.

    IF we pulled out of Middle East including Israel the fundamentalist would no doubt overrun the governments of the region and be a long way to establishing their caliphate. (Iraq and Syria almost fell but for western intervention). Then they would turn attention to Israel, until they fell (yes impossible with USA support) ….. then expansion from Muslim nations to neighbours and finally the west.

    BUT in time they would ultimately lose because just as Christianity has diminished so would Islam. The new generations want porn. booze. fashion and freedom. They dont want robes and hair shirts.

    Our problem is homegrown muslims being radicalised. That should be our focus. What muslims do in muslim nations is not our concern. Muslims who dont accept our society and want to live under Shariah should be assisted in emmigrating to a Shariah nation. ie If you dont want to live as a Roman get the fuck out of Rome !

    #1499328
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @bloggy – That the government accepts polygamy if married abroad is surprising and should could be challenged. If I owned a slave that I bought abroad would that be acceptable.

    I live in Thailand. If I marry under Thai law the marriage is not recognised in England unless I register it at the Embassy and to marry in Thailand I need a declaration from the Embassy that I am not already married.

    That said, I dont see the problem with polygamy. Marriage should be a simple matter of a contract like a company formation. Could be any number of people or any sex for any duration and should contain clauses for dissolution and care and custody of children.

    The problems come because of taxation and special rights. Why should a married couple get a tax break over 2 individuals living together. Why should there be difference in benefits. Benefits for children, dependants should be independant of marriage.

    #1499340

    bloggy
    Spectator
    • :

    Mac – The problem with polygamy is that given half a chance the Muslim population of the UK would breed us into distinction!

    It’s worth remembering that that paragon of Islam, Osama bin Laden, was one of twenty two siblings, who having married six poor unfortunates procreated a further twenty three sproggs himself.

    That’s one Hell of a lot of child benefit eh?

    #1499349
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @bloggy – I see your point about breeding but they’ll do that with or without polygamy. Is one man with 4 wives and 3 men without wives going to breed more than 4 married men? Probably not, but that then means the 3 wifeless men go to Pakistan or wherever to get bride (plus dowry) and bring 3 more women (plus relations) back to the country.

    Interesting how they seem to be able to bring foreign brides back so easily. Here in Thailand its far from easy to get a Thai wife back to England. And how the hell do they manage to bring all the relatives in as well.

    Incidentally, there should be checks to ensure the marriage is “genuine” ie the product of a relationship, not simply a marriage of convenience or mail order bride. And there should be checks to ensure the marriage is consential, not forced. Simple thing to do would be to force the couple to reside in the country of marriage for a year.

    What’s the solution to the breeding problem. Dont tell me I’ve got to tell the missus to roll over and start doing it the other way 🙂 Maybe not needed, with 2m Catholic Poles in the country they’ll be churning out sprogs galore.

    On a side note, something I dont get. If you know you are not liked or welcome in a country why emmigrate there? The standard answer is for a better life for you and your children. But if the children are going to be resented is it a better life for them. They’d be better off working and saving for a few years then go home to be comparitively rich in their home countries with big houses, servants, own business and enjoying the respect and envy of their neighbours.

    #1499382

    Laughing Lenny
    Participant
    • :

    Mac. That was a very impressive list you made earlier but I take it that it’s only for the new asylum seekers and immigrants (illegal or otherwise) that are on their way here by their thousands as we speak?
    Apparently southern Italy has been deluged with loads more of them today from Libya, and it’s quite apparent that African Muslims have wised up to the fact that Europe is a soft touch and the place to go for the generous handouts that are easily available here (as was so eloquently described by Bloggy earlier).
    The question is, what do we do about the three million+ of them that are already living here and happily taking full advantage of our obscene over-generous handouts? Most of them have been allowed and even encouraged to establish their own way of life here in large areas all over the country. And they have. Theresa May even decimated our police force to a point where Sharia law now rules in many of these communities. How do we deal with that? Any ideas?
    Perhaps you could draw up a new list of suggestions because walking around certain parts of the East End these days and seeing what’s happened is most depressing. I’m at a total loss.

    #1499397
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @Laughing Lenny – Those here without citizenship should be denied citizenship but allowed temporary stay until its safe to return or they can be moved to camps in neighbouring countries eg Turkey for Syrians. Pressure should be brought on muslim nations to take more refugees. Trump kicked up stink with Australia about 1,000 refugees then did a multi billion arms deal with Saudi without mention of taking refugees.

    For the muslims here, the moderates who accept our ways are not the big problem. There are 2 problems:

    1) The extremists
    2) The radicalisation of moderates

    Through regulation and monitoring of mosques and public solicitation (eg guys on the street) their recruitment activities are hindered. Add to that banning orders & tagging of offenders eg those inciting violence or preaching hatred. Awareness campaigns from government, muslim communities, mosques, schools reduce chance of a moderate becoming radicalised. The extremists should be painted as wackos not martyrs. Social media, rock bands, movies can help here. I’m sure many see it as “cool” to be a Jihadi, like joining the foreign legion.

    The extremists should not want to live here. They should want to be in a Shariah country. So we encourage emmigration, pay their boat fare and give them a few quid. (Didn’t Australia do that for 10 pound poms). We do deals with muslim nations to accept them, especially the nations where their parents or grandparents came from.

    Nations like Pakistan need us more than we need them. Their economy depends on export to us. They need our arms and technology. The muslims returning would have skills, be educated more than their population and for many they would have money, equity on their homes, their corner shop etc. The nations could benefit from influx of skills and investment. And if we have to give grants then so be it. We make savings on benefits and free up housing, health resources etc. We dont lose skills because I doubt the muslim doctor or nurse is a weekend Jihadi.

    Once you get the train rolling it can then gain momentum. Especially if those repatriated enjoy higher standard of living, which is possible given the purchase power of their sterling assets.

    AND even if it doesn’t work, well at least we can say we tried.

    PS – I was at Thai Immigration yesterday. They have a slogan pasted everywhere “Good Guys In, Bad Guys Out”. Its hard to argue with that.

    #1499399
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    PS – An oath is a critical tool in distinguishing the moderate from exteme muslims. If the oath required people to affirm their acceptance of core principles eg womens rights, monogamy, democracy etc. it would place the extremist in a dilemma. To put his hand on the Koran and swear to something he does not accept or to refuse to take the oath.

    There is or was an oath. There was famous case of Spike Milligan who was born in India to an Irish father English mother. Spike needed new passport. The law had been changed to require an oath of allegiance to the queen. Spike refused arguing that when he was fighting in North Africa for the Queen’s father nobody asked him to swear allegiance then. Prince Charles (his friend) said he didn’t see the problem. He had to swear allegiance when invested Prince of Wales. Spike replied “But she’s your mum, she’s not mine”. In the end Spiked walked into the Irish Embassy with a crate of whisky and after an hour of telling jokes walked out with an Irish passport.

    The concept of an oath exists. It just needs to be expanded to cover core values but allow legal dissent eg republicanism.

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