Koscielny

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This topic contains 16 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  romford_pele 3 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #1608059

    ahmad1973
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    Kos has been a good servant to the club, and is currently the team captain. I question his character as a leader. He apparently cried during a recent team crisis meeting. How will this inspire the team? He was apparently cross with Sanchez. Why? Because Sanchez demanded more? Now it is rumoured that he is behind a fallout with Ozil, Mkhitaryan, and Mustafi. While Mustafi has been appalling lately, he is not the only one to blame for our defensive frailties. Who gave the ball away needlessly on Sunday for the second goal? Much like against Manure earlier this season. Fact is Kos is not a leader, not captain material. Fact is Kos has never been that good positionally. He had pace, and The BFG covered for him effectively back in the days. Mustafi is very much like Kos; no positional awareness. So a combo of Kos and Mustafi is bound to be error prone. When Mustafi was caught during the league cup final, where were the other two CBs? While I am not impressed at the moment with Ozil’s performance, is it his job to defend? Those tasked with protecting the defense were again poor on Sunday. Wilshere was ball watching on Kos’s pass that led to BHA’s second goal. Instead of turning on team mates behind closed doors, why don’t you shout orders on the pitch? Why no one is taking the responsibility to lead on the pitch? Kos should step down as team captain. He is not fit for purpose!

    #1608146

    stev2bath1
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    Ahmad this post is all over the place like our team. Kos has been a good servant but he is old and on his way out age and injuries have caught up with him. You did make me laugh with the BFG covered for him line !!!! I think you will find most people saw that the other way round! As every one has said nothing is functioning the defense is letting in goals for fun and the forwards are not scoring at the moment we are totally shite and confidence is shattered. No one in our team is playing well so pointless to pick out any player.

    #1608169
    The Oracle
    The Oracle
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    Its the whole system thats at fault. As I have stated many times Wenger doesnt understand defending, he doesnt think its important and he doesnt believe the club needs leaders at the back. Without the inherited back5 Wenger would have won nothing. Tony’s influence at the back went through the years including our last title. Once all of this players had moved on and the influence waned defensively we have been poor. Ive always thought Koscielny was over rated, never good enough in the air but he has easily been our most reliable defender for years. Time, injuries and lack of confidence has destroyed him as a PL player.

    #1608238

    stev2bath1
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    Oracle that’s Rubbish about the back five. The invincible’s back five was all Wenger and that back old back four was not winning anything unless he had got the attacking players in and changed the way we played. Don’t get me wrong at the moment he is having a shocker but he has not been pony for 20 years and he does deserve some credit as he has done some good things.

    #1608248
    The Oracle
    The Oracle
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    Stev2bath1, Im afraid you are wrong. The back5 Wenger inherited were literally the backbone of the side. PL winning sides have to have a sound defence, you cant win titles without one. Their stability allowed the flair players to play. As for the invincible who do you think instilled defending and organisation into them, it certainly wasnt Wenger. Campbell was schooled by Tony whilst with England, Cole was at Arsenal before Wenger and learned his trade from the best back5 in PL history, Adams and Winterburn coached him. The system and organisation that make Arsenal formidable was passed down from Adams, Dixon, Bould, Keown, Winterburn to those players. As I stated if you read carefully since that influence was lost we have been dire defensively. All Wenger has done over the last 15years is make it worse with appalling buys and poor organisation. I repeat without that defence he would have won nothing.

    #1608263

    the bsm walk
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    Hi shifty, think you’ve always been a tad harsh on Koscielny, I always thought he was a fantastic defender and for a while up there with the best in the league. Now he’s a shadow of his former self. Aerially he’s not that great but the genius that is Wenger should have paired him with someone that is great in the air. One centre back can cover the weakness of his partner and vice versa. In fact, all good centre back partnerships probably worked that way – it’s rare to get two centre backs that are equally good at everything. As you alluded to: tactics, injuries and now confidence have ruined him…

    #1608290
    AndyC
    AndyC
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    • : AndyC

    For my 2 pence worth, I actually agree with oracle for most of what he said any way.
    I hate seeing Wenger and arsenal like this and I don’t want to begrudge him his success but if you look at the problems now compared to when he took over and it’s chalk and cheese.
    Wenger inherited an incredible back 5, Keown was also there or there about a as well. So he had great defenders and the team comes first attitude, Wenger didn’t give them that. That same influence was in the invincible, Keown was still around and the players like vieira, petit, edu, Henry, Pires etc etc had all been given that same desire from the original back 5 the real arsenal boys.
    Wenger dismantles that team very quickly, he didn’t keep them around vieira one greatest players was pushed. Don’t give me the he tried to move before, end of day he didn’t and he himself said after he saw his career ending with arsenal. So he was pushed. Others left and Wenger started trying to do something he had never done and go against everything that had been successful for him. He tried to be Barcelona and that was his biggest ever mistake.
    David Devin gets booted out and then Wenger is left in complete control.
    So the players that made us great had all gone and Wenger has complete control and started to bring in all the dross; cygan, silvestre, Santos, baptista, Xhaka, Mustafi and the list goes on and on and on! The good players we had saw this and thought wtf we can’t compete if this is the shit we have to deal with. So not only has the man complete control, awful signings he won’t take advice from great players or his coaching staff. And here we are today 14 years on from our last title.
    The man was lucky to inherit what he did.
    As I said I don’t want to begrudge him his success as his love for attacking football was incredible to watch and we did play some amazing football. However You try to feel sympathy for him and a small part of me does but how can you be when he is the sole reason we have gone backwards. And regardless of when we all first noticed it, we are all now seeing it and hopefully the board truly are and soon we can start to rebuild.

    #1608335
    Al The Gooner
    Al The Gooner
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    If Wenger and Graham had a lovechild, he (or she) would be the perfect manager. Graham’s genes would give defensive solidity and ensure there were leaders in the squad, while Wenger’s genes would bring attacking flair that few other teams could live with. It’d be one ugly kid, with a ridiculous accent, but would also make one damn fine manager.

    Fact is that Wenger probably wouldn’t have won anything without the original back 5 and what they passed on, but Arsenal definitely wouldn’t have won 3 titles in six years, had an unbeaten season, have the all-time record for number of FA Cups, dominated the Scum for nearly three decades and let’s not forget the positive effect that he had on the PL overall.

    Let’s also not forget the praise that back 5 gave to Wenger. They’ve all acknowledged at one time or another the positive influence Wenger had on their careers and those of us who remember Arsenal pre-Wenger all saw the almost instantaneous improvement in players like Adams and Keown.

    I doubt that even our resident fantasist would claim to remember Chapman, which leaves Wenger as the Arsenal manager who has brought all of us more great memories than any other. He’s well overstayed his welcome but let’s not start rewriting history, just because of how we feel about him now.

    #1608447
    The Oracle
    The Oracle
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    AndyC, spot on and you have to remember it was Dein who signed Campbell, Wenger didnt want him. The last 10 years should tell anyone that Wenger doesnt understand defending, he never buys real defenders just namely pamby what he thinks are ball players and his full backs have never been able to defend.

    Al The Goon-Errr makes an interesting point Graham created a side that knew how to defend and were well organised and never gave in, they had guts. As I stated Wenger inherited them, plus the best goalkeeper he has ever had plus Parlour, Keown and Bergkamp. He knew where the young French talent was, Vieira, Anelka, Henry and he signed them cheaply, he also picked up bargains in Overmars, Feddie and Pires and signed two seasoned pros he knew of from the French League Petit and Grimandi. He bought the lot cheaply and it all fitted together. Since then though its all gone pear shaped, the more money Wenger has spent the worse we have become, he may still know where the French talent is but so do all other clubs, they wont sign for Wenger and they go elsewhere. As for Chapman you dont need to have seen his sides play just read about him and his innovations and foresight, its called educating yourself. No one has rewritten history, just stated an obvious fact which according to your post you agree with. Wenger was lucky originally, he added the right players at the right time for a golden 6 years but the last 14 have been a different story.

    #1608453
    AKA THE RIDDLER
    AKA THE RIDDLER
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    I am a chump

    #1608738
    the specialone
    the specialone
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    Ahmad – Kudos to your post,because it is certainly a post where you’re backing up your arguments with certain instances in the game and throughout the season,unlike many on here who simply say I hate this player,or he’s not good enough without actually pointing out how and why.
    Some really good points being made on koscielny.

    My take on him is the same as yours,he’s proved to be a very good defender purely footalling wise.However,I wouldn’t certainly put him alongside “the best defenders in the league” let alone the world.And other than his footballing ability I’ve just fallen out of love with the player.He’s the designated vice captain(basically captain because mert the old tortoise dosen’t play),Yet i’ve never ever seen him show even one characeteristics of a leader.I’ve never seen him actually shout/command/pick up his teammates when we’re trailing and they need it.On the contrary,he’s anything but a leader because certain times he dosen’t know what to do to win a game,neither can he protect his teammates.Nothing.Remember chelsea away,when costa slapped and scratched him.Instead of staying down and getting costa deservedly sent off.He just had to get up and act like some sort of warrior.What happens next,costa gets gabriel sent off.I still hold koscielny responsible for that game because we were actually playing well.I’ve said it many a time this team nor the players simply don’t know how to win.
    Apparently he was crying at a team meeting,which idiotic “captain” cries.Isn’t he supposed to inspire his teammates.I really liked kos but this manager and team haven’t gotten the best out of him.
    As for this season,Mustafi certainly has been made a scapegoat kos has just been as responsible.Infact,literally every single defender who’s played has been equally poor bar monreal who seems to be too good for this current team.

    #1608789

    ahmad1973
    Participant
    • :

    Agree with you TSO. A captain should lead by example, not but crying! Monreal has been our most dependable player for some time now. He should be the captain. Who else on this team is fit to be captain? Maybe Wilshere. But he is an injury away from missing a ton of games. And trying to play tough does not suit him. Back in the days we had Adams, Keown, Sol, PV, TH, Mad Jens to name but a few. We also had a bench that would scare the shit out the opposing team. Now we do not even have a starting eleven that scares anyone.

    #1609762

    Madmaxsdaddy
    Participant
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    Great defender, never world class, in his September years so obviously declining. Original post questioned his leadership qualities. He was never Captain material, neither was Henry, neither was Fabrehas. We should not vilify him as a captain as I don’t think it was ever his decision.

    #1609911

    ahmad1973
    Participant
    • :

    Max: I disagree. A lot of times we are given a job that we do not want. If we accept it it means we have the responsibility that comes with the role. At the very least he has to try to be a captain. This does not mean simply wearing the arm band. Ultimately though it is really his fault that we do not have leaders. Is it by design? I wonder…

    #1609976

    romford_pele
    Participant
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    Afternoon chaps. My opinion. Kos has been ok at best, never a world beater, never a leader and not someone who would intimidate me if I was a striker. Not his fault, just out of his depth. All this comes back to Wenger who appoints the captains. Merteshatter prime example. Maybe he wants spineless captains who will never question him. The days of Vieira, Adams are long gone and until we have a real manager, it will continue. Wenger wouldn’t surprise me if the next captain was Xhaka…

    #1609987
    The Oracle
    The Oracle
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    Ray, youre spot on. As I have said many times Wenger doesnt understand anything about defending, he also doesnt think there’s a need for an infield leader, he has often stated its not important and everyone is an on field leader. He had to tolerate the likes of Tony Adams because Mr. Arsenal was a leader and had been for many years at Arsenal, Wenger was the newby, but once Wenger took control and the old guard had gone it was in his eyes all about him. He considers himself the only leader Arsenal need and he doesnt want a rival for power or any dissenters. Wenger’s ego is, and has been Arsenal’s biggest problem since 2004.

    #1610157

    romford_pele
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    Going slightly off topic here, but I’d love to hear what Steve Bould really thinks of his current role at the club. I heard rumblings that any positivity he gave to our shocking defending was short lived. We know the egomaniac wont allow anyone to outshine him. What Dixon said recently was typical and a well known fact. Adams may not have painted himself in much glory as a manager yet, but I’m sure Mr. Arsenal would have shaped up the defending given a chance, but we can’t have that now can we Le Boss. Steve must really have lost his sacks or just wants his salary to support his family and not give a toss about his own legacy…
    If Bouldy was the interim manager for a period of time if the unthinkable and the impossible happened and the defending suddenly got better, I doubt it would be a coincidence. I wouldn’t put it past us to have Smalling and/or Jones on our books next season with this parasite in charge..

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