Man Utd v Huddersfield
This topic contains 221 replies, has 25 voices, and was last updated by MacGuffin 6 years, 1 month ago.
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February 8, 2018 at 11:35 am #1596332
Fast paced.
February 8, 2018 at 11:50 am #1596341As opposed to slow paced
February 8, 2018 at 1:25 pm #1596397Hmmmm, I’m not so sure. I think he said to Tommy I don’t see any progress at all at which point Tommy said well if you seriously see absolutely zero progress then I’m going to gracefully step out of the conversation.
February 8, 2018 at 2:25 pm #1596438He did indeed. The finickity old flibberty gibbet.
February 9, 2018 at 7:56 am #1596669@happyhurling – I am not confused. Neither about my thinking nor yours. Let’s start off with where we may agree …
1] We want to get back to where we were in the glory days under SAF. This is not just winning one title. Its doubles, trebles etc. It means having a strong team and the spirit and confidence that comes with it. It means having the swagger, the fans, the headlines, the aura.
2] Progress is movement from a start point to an end destination. The destination is point 1. And we agree there are “milestones” as you put them.
3] Where we disagree is you see progress ONLY in terms of results and league position. I see it more in terms of team rebuilding. The foundation on which sustainable success is built.
4] You focus on us currently being 2nd and having beaten teams we could have dropped points to last season. The season is not over. You are premature in citing results. If we end up 3rd would you say we’ve regressed because we’re no longer 2nd. If we end up without trophy would you say we’ve regressed because there’s no mickey mouse cups.
5] You talk of “but for City” but ignore that teams like Chelsea, Spurs and even Liverpool Arsenal have underperformed. And teams like Leicester Saints have not been as tough. And many of the games against lesser opposition were far from convincing and could easily have gone the other way. We are just 2 wins away from the rest of the chasing pack. Had they not dropped points and had we not scraped some of our points the table could look very different.
6] The key issue is the underlying strength of the team eg backline. midfield, attack. And the tactics, spirit of the team. Perhaps this should be discussed in separate topic since a big subject.
Your view of just looking at results, stats and league position is simplistic and skewed. Do you accept the destination and thereby measure of progress is more than results, especially against lesser clubs. Do you accept our results, performance against top 6 clubs is lacking. Do you think we are significantly closer to beating Europe’s elite or that they fear us any more than last season(s).
The only progress I see is we have got rid of some no hopers and replaced them with hopers.
PS – I said I dont see progress, I meant significant progress. The word significant is implicit in every statement.
February 9, 2018 at 7:59 am #1596671@Wonderfuel – Using archaic language to maintain plausible deniability, Fair enough Janus, you dodgy back gammon player.
You lost all credibily when you claimed a sign of progress was the buzz on the terraces and then it turns out the “terraces” means the couple of mates sitting next to you.
February 9, 2018 at 8:51 am #1596691@Alfie – You really are an illiterate tit. Let’s get the facts straight.
1] Style and performance are slightly different but that’s a red herring – not part of my point.
2] You asserted performance CAN NOT be measured. I challenged that assertion. You then do a U-Turn saying “of course it can”.
3] You accuse me of being pedantic when I am addressing your core point. Then clarify you are referring to a casual remark I made. You are pedantic, ignoring the main point and focusing on a casual remark.
4] You throw your toys out with a snide remark about people not being allowed to criticise negativity, then when I make an attempt at humour in my reply you try make a federal case out it.
Yes I may not have paid attention to your grammar and that of my reply. I dont give your snide comments that much thought and didn’t appreciate you would be so pedantic. Anyhow on re-read, we both agree. People are free to criticise you.
PS – This whole discussion is pointless. You are the twat you’ve always been and nothing will change that.
February 9, 2018 at 9:46 am #1596720Calm down Mac, I have never said performance could not be measured. You think I have and are now arguing with something that I have not said, and are now getting very angry because I am correcting you for that.
I have never said performance could not be measured. Zico said that you can measure how we play, I asked how that could be done. I said people could offer a subjective view on style etc but you can’t measure style. That comes back to your point 1 above, which, in fact, means its not a red herring at all appears to be the sole basis of your angst.
Enjoy thumping your keyboard.
February 9, 2018 at 9:59 am #1596727You lost all credibily when you claimed a sign of progress was the buzz on the terraces and then it turns out the “terraces” means the couple of mates sitting next to you.
Everybody else managed to understand the point, macguffin so do catch up at the back, you’re getting left behind. The decline in atmosphere at Old Trafford is a completely separate debate, one that we were having even when we were conquering Europe in 99 and 08.
I think a few thousand people who follow United all over Europe enjoying buzzing going to the match again after three shit, turgid years under Moyes and van Gaal is a clear sign that progress is being made.
You, sitting in your straw hut, ten thousand miles away…who hasn’t been near to the match in decades…disagree. I get that, I really do. But I’ll take my own experience over yours thank you.
February 9, 2018 at 10:46 am #1596756I think a few thousand people who follow United all over Europe enjoying buzzing going to the match again
I have no doubt there are thousands who are buzzing and always buzz no matter what. There’s more than a few of them on this forum. Point being, you cited a buzz as evidence of progress but aside from your word based on your mates, I have seen little evidence. The media doesn’t reflect it nor do the feelings on these pages. I dont see the moderates on here buzzing.
You, sitting in your straw hut,
Surprised you didn’t say shithole, you old racist.who hasn’t been near to the match in decades
True but there are matchgoer blogs not to mention the fans here who go to matches.Everybody else managed to understand the point,
Don’t tell me. Everybody means happy and Alfie. The rest posted about the silence on the terraces.February 9, 2018 at 11:02 am #1596762Alfie – Ah so now you are differentiating between style and performance. Performance can mean:
(1) results – which is objectively measured – all agree
(2) playing efficiency – which can in part be measured by stats (eg shots on target) and partly subjectively
(3) it can also be used to mean almost the same as style. That fans commented about lack of commitment when talking about our “performance” against Spurs is an example. The same when they talk of negativity.That you said “view on style etc, but it can’t be measured” beggars the question what you meant by etcera. Anyhow, even if we stick to the literal word “style”, that can be measured just as beauty is. The style is perhaps the biggest single gripe on this forum just as it was under LvG and latter day Fergie. That’s hardly progress is it.
What infuriates me is you can easily clarify misunderstandings (if any) but choose not to, instead making waters muddier talking about “it” or “read again”. If you quote the text then its clearer. The lack of clarity makes it seem as if you are deliberately leaving wiggle room. If I am pedantic its to close the escape routes you leave open.
February 9, 2018 at 12:20 pm #1596796Why don’t you just say “I’m sorry, I didn’t understand the point you were making” instead of getting all defensive and behaving like a slapped arse dissecting every word people have written point by highlighted in bold point?
February 9, 2018 at 12:53 pm #1596819Mac, I don’t wish to carry this circular argument on. It’s boring me, so lord only knows how everyone else must be feeling. I’ll try one last time and then won’t respond further.
“Ah so now you are differentiating between style and performance.” I am not differentiating between the two now, I have always done that and I thought that was abundantly clear from the outset.
“What infuriates me is you can easily clarify misunderstandings (if any) but choose not to, instead making waters muddier talking about “it” or “read again”. If you quote the text then its clearer.” Go back and check. I have used your text before to try and clear up misunderstandings. It seems that you do not have the basic cognitive skills required to debate. This is a flaw on your part, no one else’s.
“If I am pedantic its to close the escape routes you leave open.” Again, this is you moving the goalposts. You were being pedantic of the use of the word measure, rather than quantify. You misunderstood this originally, I clarified this (using your text to highlight your error) and now you move the goalposts and try and say your pedantry is to stop me from wriggling out of something. Bizarre.
If you go back and read the full set of posts starting with Zico’s “You can’t measure progress in terms of results… What you can measure is HOW we play this year from last year.” post then, if you put your preternaturally bias to one side, I’m sure you’ll see where you have gone wrong.
If you still don’t understand then I can add nothing further to help you I’m afraid, so won’t be responding further.
February 9, 2018 at 12:53 pm #1596820For what its worth you can have the subjective opinion that progress is being made without having to quantify it. I would say it’s glaringly obvious that progress is being made under Jose. We’re higher up in the league than last season, scoring more, conceding less, winning more, drawing less.
You’re like a dog with a fucking bone Mac. Are you really that desperate to proven correct all the time so much so that you turn each thread into page after page non-topic related nit picking? It’s quite clear what Alfie meant but you had to get back on your high horse and argue black is white.
February 9, 2018 at 1:03 pm #1596824Because I did understand the point. The problem being people don’t express their point clearly, then get uppity if there’s confusion. Take you for example, how the hell am I to know “buzz on the terraces” means “my mates think”. Should I apologise for not realising you were twisting the truth. Perhaps on reflection I should have known it.
And the reason I quote people is so there is no confusion. I don’t like the bold but since the site doesn’t have colours its the best way to clearly differentiate.
February 9, 2018 at 1:11 pm #1596828Manthistle – Yes I grasp the argument that you think progress is made because points total and league position is better than last year. I question however whether that is the only objective or evidence of a sustainable improvement.
Question: Our goals conceded is excellent, an improvement. What do you infer from that? Has our defence improved? Does it mean the defence is not an area of concern? Are the players improving or working better as a unit? Is there progress in that area?
February 9, 2018 at 1:21 pm #1596834But I have never once said “my mates think” it is you have said that you oddball. There are a lot of things I think you should apologise for…you can add making things up to that now.
February 9, 2018 at 1:34 pm #1596838Alfie – Its clear to me. You, happy and others are using ONLY results (so far) as a measure of progress. Zico is (like me) looking at our play and players. A team can play well and draw or win 1-0, alternatively play not well and win 2-0.
Team performance, style, commitment, attitude etc. are not reflected in statistics BUT can be evaluated through watching. Yes its subjective, but opinion stats make opinions more reliable. Thats how judges work in sports where style and performance are assessed.
You and others are extrapolating from our improved results against lesser teams to come to a conclusion that we are getting closer to challenging Europe’s elite. Zico and myself are looking at team strength (how they play) and do not see significant progress. The Chelsea game will be a good time to see (as was the Spurs game).
You tried to rule out Zicos argument by saying “how we play” cannot be measured, opinions differ, therefore its not a valid point.
Tell me clearly and fully how you measure progress and perhaps we can agree.
February 9, 2018 at 1:54 pm #1596857@Wonderfuel – Jeez, and you call me pedantic. You said, when you said buzz on the terraces you meant
By the match I mean at away games mac…among people I’ve been going with for years.
Now you’re quibbling over “your mates” and “people I’ve been going with for years”. The reason I paraphrased it is because you moan when I use direct quotes and I couldn’t be arsed digging up the quote.
PS – In almost every one of your posts directed at me you use some slur or insult, albeit milder than your customary abusive venom. Fair enough, doesn’t bother me but don’t be surprised if I respond in kind.
February 9, 2018 at 1:55 pm #1596859@alfie. I’m actually quite enjoying reading the pointless back and forth on here. There’ve been numerous hilarious zingers on here. I love the creativity so keep it going fellas.
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