Man Utd v Huddersfield

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This topic contains 221 replies, has 25 voices, and was last updated by MacGuffin MacGuffin 6 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 161 through 180 (of 222 total)
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  • #1595942
    Alfie07
    Alfie07
    Participant
    • :

    How can anyone measure how we play?

    People can offer a subjective view on style etc, but it can’t be measured.

    For anyone to argue that we haven’t made progress under Jose shows how subjective this whole thing is, because, to many of us, we have made great strides under Jose. All about opinions though.

    #1595985

    happyhurling
    Participant
    • :

    All about opinions – most of which are wrong!! 😂😜🙈

    #1595997
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    People can offer a subjective view on style etc, but it can’t be measured.

    So style will not be “measured” when it comes to handing out medals for ice skating at the Olympics? Beauty cannot be measured at Miss World. You mean it cannot be quantified. But even thats not strictly true eg judges points at Olympics, media headlines, TV audiences etc etc.

    Some aspects of progress may are subjective, others not. I’m sure the board looked at various indicators of progress when sacking LvG. Had we played exciting football with the media and fans prasining him would he have been sacked?

    You really need to bone up on the science of performance measurement.

    PS – Its part of my job to assess the efficiency of performance measurement & analysis of organisations.

    #1596025
    Alfie07
    Alfie07
    Participant
    • :

    I think you are being very pedantic, Mac, and, as I said, it’s all very subjective. If you think people hand out marks and medals for style of play for PL football teams at some prestigious end of season awards bash then I want whatever it is you are on.

    To compare PL football style to Olympic ice skating (I assume you mean the Winter Olympics – see, you don’t have a monopoly on being a pedant), is a first.

    #1596033
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    OK Alfie – let me be precise. You are wrong to say it cannot be measured. EVERYTHING can be measured. Performance is measured through performance indicators (KPI). They can be objective, subjective or a combination.

    For our humble purposes we can look at fans opinion about style on this forum. I think it fair to say the concensus is, its better than last season but still not good enough.

    PS – Its not pedantic to correct the very heart of your point ie style cannot be measured.

    #1596034

    fatrooney
    Participant
    • :

    I think we have made progress and jose was 1 year behind pep in terms of squad quality when they both started. Next year we should be challenging and if jose does leave unlike lvg he will leave us in a much stronger state not needing 9/10 first teamers.

    As for playing attacking football in the big games, apart from liverpool game you can’t really blame jose this season. Against spurs arsenal and city we had a very attacking team on and we pretty much got slaughtered. What we need balance not playing attacking attitude.

    #1596062
    Alfie07
    Alfie07
    Participant
    • :

    Mac, you do tend to overlook the obvious. The pendantic remark was due to this comment from you – You mean it cannot be quantified. – you were splitting hairs, everybody knew what was meant in my original post on the matter.

    However, you seem to say that performance can be measured – of course it can, that’s why many people think it has improved this season!

    My post, which I thought was clear, was taking about style, not performance.

    You are obviously in one of your moods, so I’ll leave you to prattle on.

    #1596067

    Zico
    Participant
    • :

    City plays better football this year. Its Pep´s second season and players have adapted his philosophy to another level. Pep has made some players better than last season like Otamendi and Sterling. Its a very balanced team.

    When it comes to Mourinho i struggle to see his philosophy.
    He has Martial-Rashford-Sanchez fighting on the same position.
    He has no right winger,no proper fullbacks and a bunch of CB´s.
    He prefers to play 4-2-3-1 formation which limits Pogba´s capacity quite a lot.
    The team lacks balance when facing the big teams and i wonder if we were not better last season against the big teams.
    Which players have improved this season? Lingard but i cant name one more.

    Of course you can measure how we play. You can win games and play poorly.
    The results dont have to tell the truth about a game.
    But when you look at a game you can tell if the team played good or bad,are worthy winners or not but you dont know if you only focus on the result.

    Tottenham trashed us one week ago 2-0. Was that a progress from last season when we lost 2-1? According to the result yes but the game last week we could easily been thumped 5-0 thats how bad it was.
    So the result can lie but the measure how you play dont lie.

    Cheers.

    #1596186

    happyhurling
    Participant
    • :

    One result can lie yes. You wouldn’t pick one game, compare it against the result of that game last season and then draw a conclusion based on that one game. That’s stupid.
    But I think I highlighted about 8 games that we lost in the league 2 years ago and compared to this season where we’ve beaten all those teams and drawn a couple. Hence, clear progress.

    #1596191
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    Alfie, Pedantic is quibbling over a minor detail that is not critical. I challenged your main point that style cannot be measured. I added the correct term “quantfiable” in order to help educate you, since it was abundantly clear you did not know what you were talking about. In future, i’ll let you stay in blissful ignorance.

    Pedantic is you taking issue with me happening to mention the correct term and totally ignoring my main point ie can style be measured.

    I understood you perfectly. Your real point and purpose was to claim style is a matter of opinion and since opinions may vary, there’s no point talking about style. Its just another case of you seeking to end conversation about something you dont like.

    How can anyone measure how we play? …………………….

    However, you seem to say that performance can be measured – of course it can, that’s why many people think it has improved this season!

    One minute it can’t be measured then the next it’s “of course it can”.

    #1596193

    happyhurling
    Participant
    • :

    Ha ha the irony of actually explaining what pedantic means!! 😜😂

    #1596194
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @happyhurling – What’s missing is your explanation of the reason for the better results and whether it brings us closer to the our objective. Example, you could say results have improved because ..

    instead of those old knackerbags Rooney & Ibra upfront we now have Lukaku. Yes that may mean we are better at putting goals past the likes of Newcastle BUT is Lukaku more likely to score against City or Spurs or Barca? If not then we are not closer to our objective of being on their level.

    There is a difference between “doing better” and “making progress”. I’ll let you research the difference.

    #1596195
    Alfie07
    Alfie07
    Participant
    • :

    HH – I think it’s lost on him. He doesn’t understand that Zico is moving the goalposts from style to performance. He doesn’t understand that Zico said that you can measure how we play this year, rather then changing that to measuring the performance. That’s because any negativity towards the team are the only things that can’t be criticised. Bizarre behaviour, but not surprising given his form.

    #1596200
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    happy – I’d agree its futile trying to get some people to know what the words they use actually mean and hence what they are talking about. And its no wonder we don’t agree when some of us speak English and others don’t.

    English language is clearly a minor irrelevant and troublesome detail for some folk.

    #1596205
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    any negativity towards the team are the only things that can’t be criticised.

    AND that is your true (hidden) point and purposes. The silencing of what you perceive to be negativity.

    PS – Its not the only thing. Criticising you is allowed. – Now that is being pedantic!

    #1596232
    Alfie07
    Alfie07
    Participant
    • :

    Mac, please read it again, the imperative word is can’t, it’s the exact opposite of can.

    For someone so keen to correct others, you really are on shaky ground!

    #1596239
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    Jeez Alfie, you are confusing. I don’t want to make a big deal of this but let’s get it straight. The issue being, can style be measured.

    People can offer a subjective view on style etc, but it can’t be measured.
    That says it cannot. Correct?

    However, you seem to say that performance can be measured – of course it can,
    This says it can. Correct?

    Now which is it. Or are you suggesting “can’t be measured” is the same as “of course it can”.

    #1596262
    Alfie07
    Alfie07
    Participant
    • :

    Mac, do you even know what you write half the time?

    “any negativity towards the team are the only things that can’t be criticised.

    PS – Its not the only thing. Criticising you is allowed. – Now that is being pedantic!”

    Can’t and can. Complete opposites.

    As for not wanting to make a big deal out of it, that is clearly a lie. You always want to make a big deal out of things.

    Style and performance are not the same things, I would have thought for someone as pedantic as you obviously are, that would be obvious.

    You are clearly in no better mood today than you were in yesterday, so i’ll leave you to it.

    #1596309

    happyhurling
    Participant
    • :

    Mac – I think you may be getting a bit confused with what you are trying to say. (And i don’t mean confused in a senile, old fool derogatory way before you start!) You are comparing everything against the backdrop of United being a fantastic, all conquering team both abroad and domestically. That’s the end goal, sure. That’s what we all want.
    Now, we can’t go from being 6th and playing in the Europa league to this end goal of European/English champions in 1 year.
    So there has to be milestones in between, forward movements towards the end destination. Or progress! Which would be defined in this instance as finishing above 6th, getting to the latter stages of the Champions League and putting the foundations of the future team in place. What it doesn’t mean is “we’re not winning the league so therefore no progress has been made”.

    I think what happened is you said “i don’t see any progress”, which was clearly not the right statement because every man and his dog can see the progress. Since then you’ve been on a collision course to try to keep that statement legit, to save face.
    What you probably should have said is, the progress hasn’t been fast enough. Or, the progress hasn’t been equal to Jose’s reputation and the money spent. But to say there was no progress is plainly untrue and categorically incorrect.

    #1596316
    killyboye
    killyboye
    Participant
    • :

    To be fair, I don’t think Mac is saying there has been no progress. He’s saying that the progress he wants to see, in the area of style and how we play, has been almost non-existent. Yes, we are playing slightly better football but nowhere near the swashbuckling, fast paced, counterattacking football Fergie expounded.

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