Mismanagement & Bad Signings

This topic contains 82 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by redblood redblood 1 month, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #1790842
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    I find it strange that whenever there is criticism about the Glazers, Ed, the manager or whoever at the club some fans leap to their defence yet the same fans attribute our failure to “mismanagement”. If it’s mismanagement, let’s be more specific and apportion blame. Is it (a) Glazers (b) Ed (c) Scouts (d) the Manager at fault.

    The same hypocrisy applies when it comes to players. When we sign a player, fans praise the signing and predict how big a difference it will make. Then as the player delivers sub-standard performances the fans defend the players talking about how they will come good. Then later they seek to attribute our woes to bad signings, not spending wisely, but never actually identify what the bad signings were.

    Excluding last summer (its early days for them) these are all our signings:

    1] Moyes – Fellaini, Mata

    2] LvG – Herrera, Shaw, Rojo, Blind, Di Maria, Depay, Darmian, Schneiderlin. Schweinsteiger, Martial

    3] Mourinho – Bailly, Zlatan, Mkhitaryan, Pogba, Lindelöf, Lukaku, Matić, Sánchez, Dalot, Fred

    OK, question ……. which of these signings do you consider bad signings and did you say that at the time we signed them ?

    #1790843

    libanski
    Participant
    • :

    i was over the moon when we signed Pogba, Mikhi, Sanchez, Mata and Di Maria all were star players when we signed them i’m not sure i’d take anyone of them right now

    then there are players we knew had the potential but didn’t live up to it…Shaw, Schneiderlin and Depay

    The only players who gave their best but were restricted because of their ability, age or injury (in short the best of the bunch) Zlatan, Fellaini, Herrera, Blind and Matic..

    Anyway to answer your question they can all be considered bad signings except for Zlatan but at the time i thought they’d make the difference and things would get better

    #1790844

    libanski
    Participant
    • :

    I still have hope for Martial, Lindelöf and Dalot i really think they’ll come good

    #1790853
    Zico
    Zico
    Participant
    • :

    1] Both were overpriced and I had higher hopes for Fellaini than by then over hill Mata,Mata is still here which is unbeievable. Mata was a bad signing and I said it then.

    2] Herrera,Depay,DiMaria and Martial were good signings but mismanaged by LVG possession play. Right signings but for the wrong manager which gives another question to this thread: Which were the signings of the manager and which were made by Ed? I questioned Shaw but didnt know a lot about Rojo,Darmian and Schneiderlin. Blind was i happy to sign and Schweini was a gamble.

    3]Bailly, Zlatan, Mkhitaryan, Pogba i was happy to sign. I said Fred was a bad signing, Dalot was a good signing. Didnt like Sanchez and Matic but Matic was an clearly upgrade from Carrick in his first season. Wasnt sure about Lukaku and Lindelöf.

    #1790859
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    Perhaps I did not make my point clear. People are accusing the club of mismanagement making bad signings BUT at the time of the signing people didn’t say that. Quite the opposite they praised the player and signing.

    There’s a big difference between a signing not working out and it turning out to be a bad signing and mismanagement making bad signings.

    #1790860
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    Forgot to add Falcao to the list. Not a signing but a loan with option.

    #1790861

    happyhurling
    Participant
    • :

    Show us where people have “leap to the defence of Ed Woodward” please?

    #1790873
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    Basically happy, you defend everything and everybody at United up till the death. You are often careful though not to stray too far off your fence by making outright statements that can come back to haunt you. Let’s break it down,

    Glazers – well they provide all the funds needed so no reason for complaint there.

    Ed – he conducts negotiations well. – You focus onthe signings we get but the ones we dont are always down to us not wanting to be ripped off or we were not interested any
    way. You predict more signings and when it doesn’t happen say nothing. Why did we not get the signings …. Ole not want? Glazers wont pay? Ed cant get them over the line? Nope none of those so what is the reason.

    Scouts – Well we know you praise them because they uncover “gems” all the time.

    Managers – Jeez even as Jose was getting his cards you were the only one here still supporting him.

    Players – You have waxed lyrical over every signing, and defended them year after year. Its only after 4 years or more you may say something and even then its they can do a job a squad player.

    Club – All criticism was down to the media having an agenda against us and fans jumping on the bandwagon. You concede some criticism may be justified but will never say what is, every criticism is countered by you.

    Fans – You have gone after any fan critical of club or team like a pitbull, ridiculing the post or poster.

    Its a pity this site doesn’t have a good search feature else I could come up with plenty of examples but here is a few ……

    I actually think a lot of the negativity is fuelled by these reports, they’re mostly made up and are designed to create the “a club in disarray” narrative.

    Strange Evra coming out with the “real reason I left United” comments, basically saying Ed fucked him over. Yet he’s been sitting next to Ed at United games for the last hear?!

    I keep hearing this about Ed Woodward “being a banker, not a football man”. That’s fair enough, but remind me what David Gill was?

    Despite the amount of flak he gets Ed’s actually handling the negotiations pretty well this summer i think.

    PS – I’m sure I ask you direct to evaluate Glazer and Ed’s performance but cannot find your reply … maybe you never gave one.

    #1790874
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @happyhurling – I note you did not answer the question in my original post. I dont want to misrepresent your views so lets get them clear.

    Q1. Do you think the club has been mismanaged? If so by whom and how?

    Q2. Do you think any of the signings were bad signings at the time they were made? If so which signing and why.

    Q3. Please give your performance rating of the Glazers and Ed. Are you happy with their job performance. Are there any areas you are unhappy with.

    #1790904

    Mike2005
    Participant
    • :

    @macguffin It’s difficult to apportion blame due to the lack of clarity in the club structure and decision making. Ultimately it’s the owners, they are accountable for every aspect of the club on and off the pitch with their decisions.

    When Fergie (and Gill) left it was clearly chaotic, the new owners knew zero about football, but understood sports franchises. They hired a CEO who was an investment banker and started doing what they knew well (sponsorship and merchandise).

    They probably felt, that in hand-selected Moyes, they had someone who could follow in Ferguson’s footsteps, and he would manage the football side of the club.

    Moyes threw out all the backroom staff, which resulted in the entire structure of the clubs commercial and football side now being ripped up. All the clubs targets were missed the first summer and it’s difficult to say exactly why. It sounds like our targets were both unrealistic and that we couldn’t follow through on them. This can be attributed to Moyes and Ed, but also just down to the general chaos and the structure in place (so blame the Glazers). At the same time as the backroom chaos, we tried to announce how rich we were and could do things other clubs couldn’t in the transfer market.

    This started a downward spiral, a trend of buying players because we had to, getting held to ransom by all the shark agents in Europe, and a total failure in our ability to unearth players less well known and at lower cost.

    It’s draining to keep running through each manager’s issues, but if you listen to Mourinho, who like him or not, absolutely has to be respected in his views, the structure of the club is not built to support the success of the team and the manager.

    Some decisions may have been the managers, but without the support of a good scouting team, would be flawed. Some decisions would have been Ed’s or the scouts, with the manager nodding his head because there were no alternatives or the club had failed to sign them.

    Throw into the mix concepts like Sanchez hearing that he was only signed for his marketing abilities and twitter following shortly after he signed, and the difficulty players may have had buying into the general ethos of the club from the top down. It’s one large melting pot of blame and chaos.

    #1790908
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    Sounds reasonable but doesn’t really fall in line with facts. Moyes getting rid Fergie’s assistants should not bring chaos. It is expected that a new manager brings in his own people.

    And it was hardly hunky dory in Fergie latter years so not sure how desirable it is to keep things unchanged. Look at the players we were signing and the decline in quality of play.

    The common gripe from all three managers is that they were not given the players they were assured they would be given and were given players they did not want. That said the players the managers wanted and got were shite.

    #1790922
    redblood
    redblood
    Participant
    • :

    Mac-Always against signing past their best players.i.e. Bastian,Ibra,Matic,Sanchez.In fact,always against signing ANY player over the age of 25-26,no matter what their names are. Against keeping players past their 30th,and against giving new contracts to players who clearly are not good enough.i.e.Jones,Smalling,JLingz. Obviously its impossible to determine how a player will fare oce he signed,especially from another league,so some time need to be given to new players-at least a season.

    #1790971
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    if i may, as an “outsider” but regular viewer over the years….

    for me you cant put blame i only one place, it started with the new owners, they way they bought the club with the money they have taken out to cover loans means United have had less cash than they should have riught at the point football changed and you lost a long term succesful manager.

    you are still one of the richest but not had shackles placed on you as rivals werte being bought and spending big to close the gap and then increase the gap as you tread water.

    wrong manager chosen, wrongly supported, wrongly fired to early after losing SAF, then all the managers in their own way have not been supported as they should or were wrong for the club.

    many of tha players mac has listed, many clubs wanted at the time or worried when you got them, they fact so many did not work out is because of there being no plan, no direction no DoF no club identity (your club identyity and DNA was SAF) it was never going to be easy post fergie but from the opwners to the maagers to all the players playing, in the squad and at youth have failed in their own way

    i dont see the owners as wanting to win trophies (same as been said about our own crap american owners) and it was ony this summer that the kronke lad came out to say we had a plan, a dirtection and a WILL to win and challenge (hopefully its not just spin) i think Mac has a point in the other thread, i think the owners will spned big (but badly) on the wrong players at the worng time for the wrong manager, also just because you outsepnd most cluvbs still doesnt mean youve had all the cash you COULD and perhaps SHOULD have had available…i think its rare you get the first choice player and pay the full asking price (pogba) otherwise you do indeed write of a deal over £5m and get a second tier player….

    it started with fergie, he was everything, form top to bottom he defined the club , didnt always get it right with scouts and players but kept winning so much wasnt seen or cared about, then he left a team on its last legs, chose the next manager and then they dicked the new guy in that summer window and form that point on you have been reactive as a club and not proactive….

    as a slight side note, this was posted elsewhere and thought it was interesting….(next post)

    #1790972
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    Form table since I believe Oli took over just after their win in Paris puts Utd in the bottom 3.
    1. LFC 51 pts
    2. MC 43
    3. LCFC 31
    4. CP 27
    5. CFC 26
    6. WHU 25
    7. ARS 25
    8. EFC 24
    9. BOU 22
    10. BUR 22
    11. TH 21
    12 WW 21
    13. NU 19
    14. SOU 19
    15. MU 17
    16. BRI 12
    17. WAT 10
    *3 missing due to relegation
    This is shocking for a team like Utd and it’s not just a blip, it’s nearly over half a season. I saw it on a forum where they were discussing if Utd could get relegated or not and my first thought was surely not but unless they improve could they end up in a fight?

    now based on these stats and the current form, can anyone here genuinely see united being pulled in to a relegation dogfight this year?

    its unlikley but i think iof form continues you will and the very fact of being down there will make in harder for the current crop who will be shitting themselves being the players responsible for taking united down….food for thought no matter how unlikley

    #1790982

    jm1502
    Participant
    • :

    Well if the rumours about Mandzukic and Rakitic are true, and talk of a DoF shortlist of Ferdinand, Fletcher and Van der Sar, none of whom are qualified for the role, are also true, then nothing’s changed. No surprise there then.

    #1790995
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @redblood – Agreed. I voiced my concern about signing past-their-prime players in the forum at the time of their signing.

    #1791033

    Mike2005
    Participant
    • :

    @Mac I think if Moyes had taken into account that whole football structure of the club had just gone, then throwing out a multiple title winning coaching team, that had coached the players that had just won the title, was a mistake. He needed to rely on those players for another season, and the combination of missing unrealistic targets and having to try to teach old dogs new tricks I would say resulted in chaos. There was player disruption and the football on the pitch was totally unsuited to the players on it (the 100 crosses a game strategy).

    I know you like Moyes, i’m not trying to bash him here (I was optimistic about his appointment at the time), the job was a poison chalice in the first season, the Glazers made it so by setting a top 4 target. In fact the top 4 or you’re fired target I believe has caused each manager to be pushed into short term, bad decision making for many years now, add Woodward and the Glazer’s inexperience/ineptitude at all things transfer related and it explains a lot.

    This season, we seem to have removed the top 4 target, and adopted a transfer policy that let’s us sign the right type of players. The question remains as to whether Ole will be backed sufficiently in the market to sustain the pressure of the fans and keep the club competitive enough to attract good players.

    #1791051

    Moyes made a huge amount of mistakes in his season at United: dismantling the coaching staff, failing to work well to sign the required new players to keep the team energized, making the United players feel inferior by telling Rio Ferdinand to look at videos Jagielka (!!). In hindsight, the signs of failure were there from the get-go but, like it’s been ever since, the club’s management have been too late to sort things out.

    #1791058
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :
    #1791070
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @mike2005 – Fans give too much credit to Fergies assistants ie the coaching team. They were yesmen, Fergie’s cronies. NONE have them have made a name for themselves after leaving United. Phelan is with us now and not making any difference. People say “title winning team” as if we won the titles because of them. The tea lady and physio were there when we won the titles but are not given the accolade title winning tea lady. Giggs Scholes Rio etc. were world class players and would be irrespective of who were the coaches. The coaching staff did not do much for the likes of Cleverly Welbeck and the many others who were not up to it.

    And let’s be honest, the senior players were never going to cooperate with Moyes for the simple reason he did not have “pedigree”. Rio kicking up merry hell because Moyes took chips off the menu was example of pampered players who wanted it all their way.

    Yes it was clear the players weren’t going to play for Moyes but my thinking was, so what. The likes of Rio and other senior players needed to be cleared out.

    I didn’t particularly like Moyes, beyond wanting a young british manager or old boy. I just thought many of the complaints against him were contrived and he should have been given a chance and support for a honeymoon period at least. The transfer targets Moyes had would have made a difference eg Baines, Kroos, Bale etc.

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