Newcastle Away

This topic contains 193 replies, has 31 voices, and was last updated by redblood redblood 4 years, 5 months ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 121 through 140 (of 194 total)
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  • #1789411
    theMartial Art
    theMartial Art
    Spectator
    • :

    @happyhurling: JM – Poch has a worse record over the last 12 games than Ole…

    That’s not true.

    Last 12 PL games

    Spurs (P12, W4, D3, L5), Points 15, Scored 17, Concede 16

    Brighton vs Spurs 3 0
    Spurs vs Southsampton 2 1
    Leicester vs Spurs 2 1
    Spurs vs C. Palace 4 0
    Arsenal vs Spurs 2 2
    Spurs vs Newcastle 0 1
    Man City vs Spurs 2 2
    Spurs vs Villa 3 1
    Spurs vs Everton 2 2
    Bournemouth vs Spurs 1 0
    Spurs vs Westham 0 1
    Spurs vs Brighton 1 0

    United (P12, W2, D5, L5), Points 11, Scored 11, Concede 14

    Newcastle vs Utd 1 0
    Utd vs Arsenal 1 1
    Westham vs Utd 2 0
    Utd vs Leicester 1 0
    Southampton vs Utd 1 1
    Utd vs C.Palace 1 2
    Wolves vs Utd 1 1
    Utd vs Chelsea 4 0
    Utd vs Cardiff 0 2
    Huddesfield vs Utd 1 1
    Utd vs Chelsea 1 1
    Utd vs Man City 0 2

    #1789412

    englishbob
    Participant
    • :

    who are the top 3 united players you would punch?
    i’d have to go pogba, giggs, carrick

    #1789415

    jm1502
    Participant
    • :

    I see MUTV has stopped the after match phone in. No fucking wonder.

    #1789416
    roygbiv
    roygbiv
    Participant
    • :

    Missed the match but can’t say I’m surprised. This is our level and even a top 10 finish is looking less likely by every passing game.

    #1789419

    moral
    Participant
    • :

    Happy, before the game I said JJS wud start for us today as he is better than our midfielders.
    Fred is an imposter, a fraud and a woeful footballer. Andy Perreira, is a slow, lazy and average footballer.
    Both are shite and have proven it over a prolonged period of time. Not just today AGAIN.
    Also, please spare me any “but Andy is a young lad” rhetoric too – he is 24 in January and will be the next Lingard. By that I mean, on the books here for a lifetime, adding fuck all to the squad except mediocrity and ineptitude but without people realising he is 26 now….

    #1789424

    Blacky
    Participant
    • :

    @moral – Don’t forget McTominay as well mate, he stunk it out big time as well today. Just a willing oaf, that’s about it.

    #1789425

    happyhurling
    Participant
    • :

    TMA – Think it’s the last 12 games in all comps…

    #1789447
    redblood
    redblood
    Participant
    • :

    At least 3 players in January,2 midfielders and a striker.

    #1789449

    @redblood – realistically we need the following:

    LB
    CM
    CM
    RW
    LW
    ST

    None of the forward line (bar Pogba) are up to scratch. We can’t even rely on the first teamers at the moment to be back-ups because they are that bad.

    #1789450

    moral
    Participant
    • :

    @blacky, McTominay is a really honest pro, hugely willing and certainly gives it his all.
    However, he is an extremely limited footballer and only the most one-eyed and myopic of contributors to this forum could argue that he is anything but light years away from the quality we once had, and we once again will need (in the middle of the park) if we are ever serious about competing at the top end again.
    That SMcT is now our first choice central midfielder says everything about the dearth of talent we currently have. I do not blame SMcT in any shape or form – his only fault is that he is being selected.
    The current regime, presided over by Ed and friends, has left us with a whose who of no-marks, has beens and dont wanbabee’s in the middle of the park. From gold-plated, to fumes, to dysfunction to clapped out.

    #1789466
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    MacGuffin – can you give us your thoughts on Ole now after you were so delighted with his appointment? Do you think he should stay?

    @happyhurling – Didn’t you ask me this question before and I gave you a detailed reply.

    Basically I believe all managers should be given a fair crack of the whip, this means time and money to assemble their team and get it playing the way they want. And I dont blame the manager if he can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear the moment he takes the job. This was my reasoning behind my support for Moyes, so if I supported Moyes you can bet your arse I’m not going to change my standpoint for Ole.

    Fans are extremely unfair on the manager giving bullshit and often contradictory criticisms.

    Fans blame Ole for letting Lukaku, Sanchez go without replacement but was that Ole or Ed. Fans overestimate the power of managers in transfer dealings.

    Fans criticise team selection but is there any player on the bench who is any better than the player selected eg. some fans screamed for Fred to be played, how did he do against Newcastle.

    Fans think team selection and tactic can turn shit in gold. It can’t. They blame the managers tactics but come on, does it make that much difference. Yes it makes the difference in a finely balanced game but not against the likes of Newcastle or Rochdale.

    Fans scream give youth a chance, and not just a chance but a protracted run of games, and when they do get the chance fans moan if the performance and result suffers. They argue a young player needs time and experience to develop but that argument goes out the window when it comes to a young manager.

    Fans knew this would be a tough season and many didn’t have confidence we could beat Newcastle. Then when it happens they moan as if it is was a shock.

    I could go on but let me sum it up as regards Ole. I view a young manager like a young player. The club can make (or break them). We like to say we should make players not buy them but suddenly that argument goes out the window for managers, it shouldn’t.

    But like with players, you need the right person. You can train, develop and make a player (or manager) great, but he must have the right character and attributes to start with. Ole does.

    Fans agree its a shit team but when this shit team yields shit results they scream for the managers head. They have done this for the past 3 managers and are doing it again. I argue we should try something different. Get a man who is made of the right stuff and give him time. And the time given should be proportionate to the squad he inherits and funds he is given.

    #1789484

    happyhurling
    Participant
    • :

    Mac – yep I agree with all that. But there’s been a few comments saying Ole is completely out of his depth, has no in-game know how or any real tactical nous. He doesn’t seem to be able to affect games.
    It’s hard to not get the feeling that some of these criticisms are right.

    #1789486
    Alfie07
    Alfie07
    Participant
    • :

    Updated TT Table:

    Sympathy for the Devils…9 Points (8 Matches, 1.13 Average)
    Redblood …6 Points (8 Matches, 0.75 Average)
    Manthistle …5 Points (7 Matches, 0.71 Average)
    Libanski …4 Points (7 Matches, 0.57 Average)
    Hookeddevil …4 Points (8 Matches, 0.5 Average)
    CM…3 Points (1 Matches, 3 Average)
    Steveosnakeeye…3 Points (6 Matches, 0.5 Average)
    Alfie …3 Points (8 Matches, 0.38 Average)
    MUFC…3 Points (8 Matches, 0.38 Average)
    Hail Martial…2 Points (8 Matches, 0.25 Average)
    Happyhurling …2 Points (8 Matches, 0.25 Average)
    The Martial Art…1 Points (4 Matches, 0.25 Average)
    Homerjay …1 Points (7 Matches, 0.14 Average)
    Mike2005 …1 Points (7 Matches, 0.14 Average)
    Tom Lily…1 Points (8 Matches, 0.13 Average)
    English Bob…0 Points (1 Matches, 0 Average)
    Hatters…0 Points (3 Matches, 0 Average)
    Killyboye …0 Points (8 Matches, 0 Average)
    Moral…0 Points (4 Matches, 0 Average)
    Scholsey…0 Points (6 Matches, 0 Average)
    TheLegend…0 Points (3 Matches, 0 Average)
    united_we_win …0 Points (2 Matches, 0 Average)

    #1789487
    Alfie07
    Alfie07
    Participant
    • :

    Let me know if any of the weekly scores are incorrect:
    Alfie ..0
    CM..no prediction
    English Bob..0
    Hail Martial..0
    Happyhurling ..0
    Hatters..no prediction
    Homerjay ..0
    Hookeddevil ..0
    Killyboye ..0
    Libanski ..no prediction
    Manthistle ..3
    Mike2005 ..0
    Moral..0
    MUFC..1
    Redblood ..0
    Scholsey..0
    Steveosnakeeye..3
    Sympathy for the Devils..3
    TheLegend..no prediction
    The Martial Art..no prediction
    Tom Lily..0
    united_we_win ..no prediction

    #1789495

    N1xer
    Participant
    • :

    The problem with Ole is he has no track record to fall back on. His time at Cardiff was a disaster and it’s hard to make anything out of his time at Molde. Obviously the club is a shambles top to bottom right now and its hard to see any manager doing much better with what’s available. So it’s impossible to know for sure where the problems really lie. Ole seems a lovely fella who says the right things but he looks to have lost that squad. There is no set style of play or any real effort at the moment. His recent record is atrocious. I honestly have no idea how this shit even starts to get fixed. Really starting to feel like this is terminal. Not sure any manager or players can fix this any time soon

    #1789503
    killyboye
    killyboye
    Participant
    • :

    The problem isn’t quality, we are lacking in quality but there’s young players with potential there, Greenwood, Tuanzebe most notably along with Chong, Gomes and others who may or may not make it. Our major problem is leadership and mentality, Ole alluded to the mentality aspect last night, we’re soft, there’s no two ways about it, we’re soft mentally. We’re lacking that killer instinct, that BITE, that Fergie’s teams all used to have. When signing players in January or next summer, we need to find players who can be leaders, Maguire isn’t one, AWB is too young to step up at the moment and James isn’t one. We need someone, and I don’t care if we have to spend £200m to get them, who will drag the others along by sheer force of will. I know they’re rare which is why I’d be willing to spend so much to get someone like that. We need a leader on the pitch and I think we also need someone on the coaching staff that the players are a little afraid of, I don’t know if there’s one there at the moment. Oh, and we need to stop passing the ball backwards.

    #1789504
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @happyhurling – Well let’s look at the qualifications of those fans making those comments. What the hell do they know.

    How is Ole out of his depth. He knows the club, the staff, the fans and what its like to be a player, both as a nobody on the bench and as a star. That’s more experience than JM or LvG had.

    As for tactical nous, it is over-rated and in my view a load of bollix. Fergie was no tactical guru, his quality was man-management, motivation and passion. LvG with all his flip charts and opposition spies was crap. Lets not forget, Ole’s character. He did not sit on the bench picking his nose, he studied the opposition. That’s how he was able to come of the bench, get in behind their defence and score so much. He was United’s reserve team manager. At Molde he gained experience with less talented players, (we’ve got a lot of them) and no doubt getting a bus instead of a plane. That’s why we like managers to work their way up from lower leagues, so they know defeats.

    AND lets not forget the manager is not supposed to know everything. He’s not a doctor or fitness expert, he has people for that. If he lacks tactical awareness hire somebody, or talk with the man upstairs. The role of the manager is to set the tone and atmosphere of the club.

    Sadly though, he is not doing so well on that front. I’m dissappointed with the commitment of some younger players. The established players are all write-offs so I don;t expect much there. I think if you had a team of Philip Nevilles, Fletchers, Browns etc. you’d be well short on talent but the drive and commitment would make up for that and you could have a decent side.

    None of the fans criticising have justified their comments. Its just throw away lines like no experience, no tactical nous. I think I shall put in a robust challenge to some of these complaints.

    #1789510
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    The problem with Ole is he has no track record to fall back on. – @N!xer – Thats not a competency, football or management problem. Its a problem only in silencing critics and keeping his job. Personally I tired of LvG and JM telling us about how great they were at other clubs when both of them had a long hisotry of being fired.

    Obviously the club is a shambles top to bottom right now … So it’s impossible to know for sure where the problems really lie. – Its been in a shambles for a long time, the problems are many, complex and hard to identify. If fans cant spot them its perhaps no surprise Ole will need time to sort it out.

    There is no set style of play or any real effort at the moment. Screw the established players who have let us down. They are part of the problem and the solution is clear, get rid.

    As for the younger players, it has a knock on effect when established players dont perform and results are not going are way. The inevitable result is the younger player focuses more on not making a mistake than making that killer pass. He looks to keep under the radar. Thats a tactic that gave many of the senior players long careers at United,.

    #1789515
    killyboye
    killyboye
    Participant
    • :

    @Mac, I think Ole is trying to instill the mentality that it doesn’t matter if they fuck up. He wants them to try that killer pass because the senior players couldn’t create hot air if they exhaled. It just doesn’t help that the senior players don’t seem to give a fuck. Even when Chong came on last night you could see him trying to gee-up the rest of the team. He was gesticulating at them, trying to get one ball to come his way on the wing and, for the most part, it wasn’t happening, I don’t think the young players are our problem, there’s plenty of heart and desire there, it’s the older ones are our biggest issue.

    #1789536

    @macguffin – I agree with you that managers deserve a shot and that Ole should be given more time, but I think he has been culpable for quite a bit of the early season mess:

    – It is his choice to continue to play Lingard who has done nothing for over a year.
    – It is his choice to continue to play Young who has been extremely poor for years.
    – It is his choice to play Periera at RW were he is completely ineffective.
    – It is his choice for corners and free kicks to be drifted in rather than put in at pace, making them completely ineffectual and actually making us the worst team in terms of last scoring from a set piece.
    – It is his choice to continue letting Rashford take free kicks which he is obviously rubbish at and to let Pogba take penalties, which he is obviously rubbish at. Surprised no one mentions Martial for penalties (very good taker) or Mata for free kicks (best we have).
    – Whether Woodward had a bigger say or not I can’t say as I’m not privy to the going-ons of transfers behind the scene, but yet I’m sure Ole had SOME say as to whether to keep Lukaku and/or Sanchez or remove them all and go into the season without a recognized striker. If he agreed to get rid of both before Mandzukic (or another replacement) cam in then it’s his fault for not standing his ground and saying “If we go into the season like this were f**ked, either get me a replacement or we need to keep one or both of them”. He has been quite vocal about him wanting rid of Lukaku so I’d say he had quite a bit of say in that.

    A lot of the points you noted I fall into so hence my reply above; like I said, I blame Woodward and the Glazers a lot more than I do him and he needs time BUT he also needs to cut out the BS he’s trying to pull and grow a pair and drop the f*** out of Lingard, Periera and Young and grow a pair with Woodward and demand replacements in January and tell his coaches to get their finger out and coach these players properly – if needed get in proper coaches from abroad and replace Carrick and McKenna if necessary; there are things within his power but he’s failing so yes I will judge him on those.

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