NHS

This topic contains 18 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by D1rtyH4rry D1rtyH4rry 5 years ago.

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  • #1733241
    D1rtyH4rry
    D1rtyH4rry
    Participant
    • :

    Anyone else find it a little disturbing that 350mil per week for the NHS after Brexit, is being replaced with the privatisation of the NHS. What’s worse is NHS England came out and said they would put a stop to out sourcing NHS services, but have now given the greenlight for InHealth to takeover PET-CT Scans from the Churchill Hospital, In Oxford. One of the leading Cancer Hospitals in the world.

    When you have a dangerous and villainous government in charge, this is always a likely consequence, my biggest gripe, is that no one gives a shit. They will only give a shit when they pop up in A&E and are asked if they have health insurance. By then it will be too late.

    #1733304
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    I know nothing about this so perhaps I shouldn’t comment, but do so in order to make a contribution to forum activity.

    Do you mean privatisation or outsourcing. Does the patient now have to pay for a NHS service he had for free?

    If outsourcing (as I suspect you mean) I have nothing against it if the same quality is delivered for lower cost. BUT if that were the case, I’d be asking how that is possible. How can one facility do something significant cheaper than another ie NHS v Private. And I’d fix whatever it was that meant NHS costs were higher than private.

    I remain convinced that there is no reason healthcare should be such a massive permanent problem or so costly (irrespective of the government of the day).

    I would modernise the entire system and allow healthcare to compete in the market. By that I mean, we have government funded research centers for weapons, do we have them for drugs. And if so, can they patent and sell their discoveries. UK university research is funded by government, do they get revenue from their discoveries.

    I have host of examples.

    #1733305
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    Personal Experience —

    Whilst in the UK, the optician told me I had cataract and refered to my GP to refer me to the eye hospital. She could not refer me direct, so the trip to the GP took up needless doctor time and added to wait list times.

    The hospital examined me, and said as well as cataracts I had torn retina. They could not do that so refered me to another hospital (closer to me) only a couple of miles away.

    Hospital 2 puts me on waiting list, has to re-examine me (duplicate work time) to confirm what hospital 1 diagnosed. I get my operation – a 10 minute procedure. Perfect service, excellent but did it need a qualified nurse to give me an eye-drop, escort me to surgery and bring me tea and biccies after? A candy stripe or convict could have done that. And I would not object to paying for my tea.

    I ask hospital 2 if they can do the cataract and they say Yes, so put me on the waiting list there. Now I am on waiting list at 2 hospitals. Naughty of me I know but i want it done asap and their system is not linked so they don’t know. The waiting list is now longer because 1 patient is on twice.

    Hospital 1 then gives me a date and I go there for the surgery,. (Again excellent service). I pay nothing and am not even asked for a donation. I bung a tenner in the RNLI charity box on reception desk. Howcome RNLI charity box and not a healthcare charity?

    The doctor who did the surgery was the same doctor as who did surgery 1. Obviously he bounces between the 2 hospitals. Why 2 locations only miles apart. Close one and have a single unit.

    Afterwards I call hospital 2 to take me off the waiting list. Had I not done that or delayed doing it, it would add to wait times and work when I no-show. And the hospitals could have maybe offered a fast-track service like the Post Office has a first class stamp.

    At both hospitals the nurses asked how I was getting home (shouldn’t drive). At the first I said bus. She said should not do that with one eye bandaged. I told her Nelson had one eye and managed to get the fleet home (I was in Portsmouth). Hospital 2 forced me to call my brother to come collect me.

    There was no taxi rank at the hospital or hospital mini-bus service. They could sell a taxi rank space like airports sell space. The hospital had no shops or cafes but tons of space. They could have a conveniece store, coffee shops, burger bar whatever.

    I’d have the local prison doing the laundry, community service workers cleaning the car park and making gardens. I’d have a widescreen telly in the waiting room with advertisements. Sell sponsorship like it was Manchester United. Have recruitment posters everywhere for Nursing and Navy (it’s Portsmouth). The eye drops would be made by a chemical weapons research lab, the chairs by the prisons. A sponsor logo on the nurse uniform. Even a dating service to fix me up with that nurse 🙂

    CONCLUSION —- I think you get the point. On this one small example, I spotted dozens of areas where savings could be made and even revenue generated,.

    #1733308
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    PS – At one hospital, can’t recall why, but they needed to take blood. Fair enough. They took what they needed for testing. But they could and should have taken a pint. Don’t hospitals need blood?

    #1733362
    D1rtyH4rry
    D1rtyH4rry
    Participant
    • :

    Macguffin – For now it is just outsourcing, but moving vital patient services to private companies isn’t a good sign. Consultants have raised concerns that patients may need to be sent for repeat scans through fear of poor quality. I assume they did offer a cheaper package, so from a financial point of view it makes sense, but only if the quality is up to scratch.

    In Oxford there is an eye casualty unit, so no need for a gp referral. It’s relatively new though, about 10 years.

    #1733386

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    To be fair Harry the £350m as we all know was a fictional figure from the multi party leave campaigners.

    I’ve experienced what’s happening in Oxford and had Pet Scans through the NHS via a private company without any problems.

    Pet scans are the most expensive of all Scans and Pet Scanners because of their cost are not available at every Hospital and it makes sense to make Pet Scans as cost efficient as possible from a NHS perspective and available regionally.

    There are no quotes from any Oncologists in all the articles referring to the Churchill Hospital case but Oncologist obviously review the results of all Pet Scans and if they weren’t up to scratch this would be flagged up and the private provider would lose their contracts.

    All serious illnesses deserve the very best possible support from the NHS and Cancer is clearly one of those very serious illnesses personally I can’t speak highly enough of the care and attention I’ve received from the NHS.

    On a completely non political basis given that we all lead longer lives now the NHS needs greater funding and personally I would be in favour of a special NHS tax.

    #1733429
    D1rtyH4rry
    D1rtyH4rry
    Participant
    • :

    Couldn’t agree more 9. It’s some How selling that people that’s the problem I suppose.

    #1734132
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    Why is it that the only solution is higher taxes (government funding). I’m not against it, but I would like to see cost savings through efficiency, the cost of drugs and equipment scrutinised, and for health services to be able to generate revenue streams.

    #1734276

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    Mac, I didn’t say higher taxes to help fund the NHS was the only solution although I suspect it would provide the most meaningful additional revenue but I agree savings should looked to be made across the board which is actually what the regional Pet Scan strategy is attempting to do.

    #1734455
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    999 – I didn’t mean you. I meant everybody looks to taxation.funding and there’s barely a mention of anything else.

    Yes regional centers makes sense. But then the question is, if a private company do it why can’t the government. One answer would be the private company sells to both government and private customers whereas a government center would not be allowed to sell to private hospitals. I’d change that inequality.

    #1734507
    j c
    j c
    Participant
    • :

    It’s pretty much official now that Brexit isn’t happening anyway.

    #1734511

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    Mac, I think the reason for Pet Scans via independent companies is because they can deliver them more cost effectively.

    Personally I would like to see all avenues pursued to help fund a more effective NHS but I think the centre piece of this would probably have to be greater taxation imo.

    #1734583
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @999 – I know nothing about Pet Scans (is that checking your hamster) so cannot comment other than on the generic topic of private vs public healthcare providers.

    I agree about persuing all avenues but think we need to be more innovative, more adventurous and to totally re-design the system from a blank sheet. Often this is a problem. A system is like a house, where we build an extension, convert the loft, and gradually tweak here and there. I think sometimes you need to knock it down and start afresh with a new design. A revolutionary step like coke in a can instead of a better bottle.

    You say greater taxation but I think you’ll agree with me if I change that to greater funding. Budgets can reallocate. Health responsibilities can be shifted or shared.

    The fact is, people are living longer and science is making the incurable curable or at least changing the odds. People’s demands and expectations for healthcare are rising. And our care & concern for the sick, suffering, disabled is greater.

    This needs to be reflected more in society, economy, science, research and the law.

    I would not welcome a tax increase and trusting the government to spend it on health. I would prefer health taxes and the money bypassing the government and going into a separate national entity. Lets see some of the tax on booze, petrol, sugar as well as fines for violence, accidents etc. going towards the cost of healing those hurt by the products/actions.

    Let’s make health a national industry like universities have sold education to the Chinese and foreign students.

    #1734652

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    Mac, wouldn’t disagree with too much of that.

    My proposal is for a specific NHS tax which is ring fenced for the NHS.

    I think what we can all agree on is:

    “The fact is, people are living longer and science is making the incurable curable or at least changing the odds. People’s demands and expectations for healthcare are rising. And our care & concern for the sick, suffering, disabled is greater.”

    And that will require increased funding however we get there.

    #1734656
    D1rtyH4rry
    D1rtyH4rry
    Participant
    • :

    What the NHS needs, is to commission a purpose built software that all GP surgeries, Hospital Trusts, and NHS Community networks are able to use. Software that is user friendly and easy to train people on. Software that can accurately capture data needed for commissioning purposes. A validation system that means you do not have to double up on work.
    As it stands each NHS trust has the option of picking their own software providers and obviously go for the cheapest package available. In Oxford we use American software that was designed for veterinary practice.
    The amount of money that is lost due to poor administration practices is scary, however the powers that be a constantly provide make do solutions, instead of providing purpose built solutions is a huge part of the problem.

    #1734658

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    999 – I know nothing about Pet Scans (is that checking your hamster) so cannot comment other than on the generic topic of private vs public healthcare providers.

    Does this help Mac?

    “A positron emission tomography (PET) scan is an imaging test that allows your doctor to check for diseases in your body.

    The scan uses a special dye containing radioactive tracers. These tracers are either swallowed, inhaled, or injected into a vein in your arm depending on what part of the body is being examined. Certain organs and tissues then absorb the tracer.

    When detected by a PET scanner, the tracers help your doctor to see how well your organs and tissues are working.

    The tracer will collect in areas of higher chemical activity, which is helpful because certain tissues of the body, and certain diseases, have a higher level of chemical activity. These areas of disease will show up as bright spots on the PET scan.

    The PET scan can measure blood flow, oxygen use, how your body uses sugar, and much more.

    A PET scan is typically an outpatient procedure. This means you can go about your day after the test is finished.”

    #1734660
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    Gotcha. – Yes agreed a health tax (and revenue streams) firewalled from the government stealing the money to pay for other things.

    Another aspect is traditionally hospitals (care) is supposed to be close to the community. But that is from the days people didn’t have cars and good transport. Today it’s not that big an inconvenience to travel to the nearest city. And for those for whom it is, they can minibus them in by day/district.

    As for the hospitals near D1rtyHarry using vetinary software, surely the nation has the skillset to develop patient software. And if it doesn’t then maybe government investment in a software development center is needed.

    The problem is probably that the government simply gives the regional authority money and let’s them do what they want. Central purchasing would give benefits of scale and make it all more cost-effective for the government to do somethings itself (see above).

    #1734661
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    Incidentally – a secure national health database could be like a police.criminal record database and could hook into other government departments that consider health eg, disability benefits or even employment (dispute). As it stands everything still goes on a doctor’s note which can be suspect.

    #1734665
    D1rtyH4rry
    D1rtyH4rry
    Participant
    • :

    Baby P is a very famous case that stemmed from services not sharing information. You’re on to something there Mac.

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