Peoples vote looking more and more likely

This topic contains 679 replies, has 19 voices, and was last updated by  Laughing Lenny 4 years, 3 months ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 241 through 260 (of 680 total)
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  • #1715384

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Mac – It doesn’t really go hand in hand, the government has already stated that they will need to bring in more people from Asia and Africa to cover for the workers we will not be getting from Europe, so from what this man voted leave for he will be getting exactly the opposite. In fact figures recently released have shown that immigration from Europe is around 50% of what is was a year ago, yet overall immigration is a the same level, so that means immigration from the rest of the world has increased.

    #1715405

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    Really? I haven’t seen that Pax. But whatever the circumstances under Brexit we will have control on who comes in and that will be based on what skill sets we need just like it is if you want to emigrate to Australia.

    #1715408

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    What a peoples vote might look like will be intersting assuming that’s the direction we go in.

    Given that we’ve already had the Vote on Remain or Leave any new vote should only be between the final negotiated deal whatever that may finally be and No deal.

    #1715441
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @Pax – Yes I’m aware its a condraction. I haven’t seen the clip but what’s the betting the reporter didn’t point out the contradiction and ask for clarification. That would spoil the footage.

    If you look at the headlines, Its all about curbing immigration, how it impacts resources like houses, hospitals. Talk of bringing in Asians and Africans is buried way down in the newsprint.

    And on the topic of immigration, the whole mindset and approach is wrong. Its all geared to keeping wages low so the employers can make easier money. The focus should be on better paid better jobs by focusing on higher skills, technology and innovation. If nurses got better pay they may not bugger off to america!

    And why are discussions always just about money. Aren’t social issues and quality of life factors.

    Incidentally, if we do need HR then I’ve no problem with bringing in foreign labout BUT why does it have to be in the form of immigration. I worked in Saudi, I wasn’t an immigrant, I was an expat. Give them work visas or hire refugees on temporary basis. That would be 2 problems solved at the same time.

    PS – the skill set issue is a red herring. By far the majority of the immigrants are unskilled.

    #1715453
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    “Dandy – Free loader? I have worked 07:15 – 17:45 all three days this week, I work for my money. ”

    now now Pax, i think what you meant to say was….

    “Dandy – Free loader? I have BEEN AT THE OFFICE 07:15 – 17:45 all three days this week, I TURN UP for my money. ”

    Mac, not sure if you missed his original jibe that YOU as an immigrant is moaning about immigration…..

    #1715456
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    the only fair immigration rule is for skills and if delivered correctly should be welcome by all, though it would still be nice for our govenment to sort out why we have those skills shortages in the country already and deal with it

    #1715550
    AshCFC
    AshCFC
    Participant
    • :

    I don’t want to comment further on the validity of a ‘peoples’ vote’. Done that one to death.

    However, having just watched the latest Question Time, which is always attended by a broad spectrum of ‘the people’, it is blatantly obvious that there’s overwhelming support from the majority for the Brexit question to be referred back to them.

    And not just on this latest episode. Every time I watch QT and someone voices support for the people to sort out the country’s direction, there are huge cheers.

    As one member of the audience said tonight (and was applauded loudly for), when general elections are called very quickly after the previous one, no one cries that it’s the death of democracy. No one objects that ‘the will of the people’ at the last election is being unfairly superceded. So why is it any different for Brexit?

    I don’t think anyone, regardless of which side of the Brexit debate they sit on, can disagree that there’s an absolute impasse in Westminster. The two major parties don’t even have a consensus within their own ranks. It’s a disaster seemingly set to go on and on, and on.. Politicians just can’t resist putting their own political objectives before what’s best for all of us at this critical point in our history.

    It’s a disgraceful state of affairs with regards those who are charged with representing the people. No wonder then that the people feel they need to speak again imho.

    #1715551
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @steveosnakeeye – Yes I did miss that Pax was referring to me, if he indeed was. Perhaps because I am not an immigrant. My visa is a non-immigrant visa (retirement visa). As such I am prohibited from work. Foreigners in Thailand cannot buy houses or land, there is no free healthcare, schooling for children, social welfare or anything.

    Before I had a work permit here, to get that aside from demonstrating the skill set there is a minimum wage (therefore tax) to qualify. That means you can’t come here to work as a Pizza delivery boy.

    Thailand doesn’t spend zillions on education like the UK does nor have a high skilled labour force. Yet it is a booming economy. How is it these (third world) countries can catch us up and even overtake us in many respects. Its because we have ceased to be innovators looking for better ways. Instead the focus has been to emulate what Asian nations used to be, reliant on cheap labour to make cheap product to sell based on low price.

    @ashcfc – The public will always want to be consulted (asked) on everything. The question is whether its feasable. I dont think it is, but with internet it must be easier for government to provide facts and for people to vote on more issues.

    And perhaps we should do like in the US, add specific policy questions to the ballot at election time.

    #1715552
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @ashcfc – Perhaps something we can both agree on is the country, government, people should establish rules or guides for referenda (is that the plural) rather than it being the political decision of the government of the day.

    And as regards calling an election, that used to unfair since it gave the government unfair advantage. And PEOPLE DID complain it was contrary to the will of the people. That’s why they passed the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 which prevents the ruling party from calling a snap election.

    The QT bloke is wrong!

    #1715589
    AshCFC
    AshCFC
    Participant
    • :

    He was referring to Theresa May’s decision to hold a general election most recently, which was circa two years after the last one.

    #1715594

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Mac – Just go on to you tube and search C4 news barnsley man asked about Brexit, you will find it, it really is hilarious, the reporter was actually quite dumbfounded.

    #1715596

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Steveo – If you had been paying attention I hadn’t logged into teamtalk since coming back after new year, I have not just been in the office, I have been really busy and due to that I have not been on, when the work needs doing I do it, I only come on here during lulls.

    #1715597

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    So Mac – What is the difference between an expat and an immigrant?

    #1715598

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Ash – Jeremy Corbyn is now asking for another general election, that can’t be allowed, it would be the death of democracy, we have had a vote and that should stand forever 🙂

    #1715621
    MacGuffin
    MacGuffin
    Participant
    • :

    @Paxman – An immigrant seeks to become a citizen or permanent resident of the country ie to become a national. The expat wishes to retain his nationality but merely lives and.or works in another country. He accepts he is a foreigner whereas the immigrant is seeking to become one of the natives !

    If you go grape picking in France one summer you are not an immigrant, you are a migrant worker. If you stay there a few years you are an expat. If you apply for French passport or permanent residency you are an immigrant. And if you bugger off to pick grapes in Italy you are an iterinerant.

    I do not have permanent residence, I have to re-apply for visa annually.

    #1715626
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    Paxo of course your illustrious posting or non posting was noticed by im sure more than me, but as you only post on here at work and not other time I and maybe others assumed you had yourself a nice long break, what with being so considerably well off and unnafected by the results you love to argue over. 🙂

    I think a GL election is somewhat different to a “once in a lifetime” referendum decided by the nation?

    but what do i know being a thicky leaver 🙂

    #1715649

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Mac – So following on from your illustration then the Brexit vote was nothing to do with immigration as the EU worker from Poland, Romania and the like are all ex pats, they were all coming here to work and not applying to become nationals, they were keeping their nationalities, yet we were told by the leave campaign that it was all immigration, so they lied to yet again.

    #1715651

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Steveo – I did have a nice long break 21st Dec to 3rd Jan, it was quite nice thank you, not sure that it was ever termed as a once in a lifetime referendum, seeing as there was a referendum to go into the EU, that was in the 70’s so there were plenty of people alive for both these event, so could never be considered once in a lifetime. This was a term however the was referred to the Scottish Independance referendum, I think you maybe getting the two confused 🙂 . Although it looks like there will probably be another Scottish independance referendum, even though it was a once in a lifetime event.

    #1715657
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    • :

    Ah unfortunately you are once again incorrect and indeed both referendums were mooted as such, and being obtuse by saying the first was to join is included does nothing for you at all mon amie.

    the vote LEAVE the UK (for the scottish) and the EU (for the UK) were both referred to as once in a lifetime or indeed generation options.

    I know you still struggle to grasp certain things as a decision went against your own superior thoughts and thus should be made moot, void, Null…and redone until the correct result is achieved, alas for that pesky old democracy that gets in the way.

    I shall let Mac pull your other post apart which is also incorrect, but then again its not like a leave voter to cherry pick and lie in JUST the same way as the other team did 😉

    I am of course glad for your lengthy festive break once never doubted it would be anything less, after all you are incredibly well off compared to most 🙂

    #1715658

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Steveo so the EU referendum was mooted as once in a lifetime even though it was the second one in many peoples lifetimes? Hilarious 🙂

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