Peoples vote looking more and more likely

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This topic contains 86 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Wonderfuel Gas Wonderfuel Gas 17 minutes ago.

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  • #1704981

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    AK – Austerity has nothing to do with Brexit or the EU, austerity has come about because as far as public finances go we are second worse in the whole of the idustrial world, the only country worse off than us is Portugal. This is due to previous governments selling off all of the public assets. eg, British Rail, Royal Mail etc

    #1704984
    Dandy
    Dandy
    Participant
    • :

    Ak – if you read the thread you’ll see paxman brought up poverty and losing your job as a result of Brexit. Although I don’t swallow his scaremongering I did point out that many of the poorest in this country already have nothing and Brexit won’t make that situation any worse.
    Heck, the very fact we had to suffer austerity at all could point to a need for change and I suspect to many of those who voted to leave, it was an issue.
    So in answer to your question, austerity had everything to do with Brexit.

    #1704998
    Alfie07
    Alfie07
    Participant
    • :

    Pax – I haven’t seen any credible reason why we can’t use technology. We just need to satisfy WTO rules on tariff controls, the technology has been tried and tested and works well. Of course remainers would shoot any ideas down – they don’t want a solution they want a second referendum.

    It should be considered, along with other ideas, just as much as the two options you propose. Again, this comes down to the fact that we haven’t learnt from the referendum, people need to be able to debate in an honest manner. Lies put forward by either side really do not help anyone.

    #1705004
    AK
    AK
    Participant
    • :

    And that i guess was the issue in hand the EU was indirectly blamed for the problems created by our government. which has resulted in the possibility of austerity 2.0 which will then be blamed on Brexit so the government gets away with it again & so the vicious cycle continues.

    For me it boils down to will we be better off in or out of the EU and after nearly 2 years of discussion i am even more convinced staying in the EU is the way forward. But as i pointed out in a previous post i could do quite well out of a no deal Brexit! but because the country wont do well i would still vote to remain!

    #1705015
    AK
    AK
    Participant
    • :

    Also why are people scared or against of a 2nd vote? Because the result may change?

    A 2nd vote is far from guaranteed to deliver a remain vote and that all depends of whats on the ballot paper.

    If the paper say deal or no deal what would you choose & why?

    By the way you cant have 3 choices on the ballot.

    #1705019
    Dandy
    Dandy
    Participant
    • :

    It really depends how you define better off. Are you talking economic only?
    Others might site sovereignty, socially, politically people voted for a miriad of reasons.
    I have a question for you. The difficulty cutting ties with the EU exemplifies why people voted leave. Do you think the referendum result (with the largest turnout in British history)should be respected IF Theresa May can somehow get a deal through parliament. Yes or No please.

    #1705023

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Alfie – As I said if there are solutions out there why is this still the biggest single problem with the Brexit process, why has the need for this backstop come about? It seems some people think it isn’t an issue but can’t explain why.

    #1705027

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Do you think the referendum result (with the largest turnout in British history)should be respected IF Theresa May can somehow get a deal through parliament. Yes or No please.

    Yes of course and IF she can get a deal through Parliment it will go through and we will leave. IF she can’t get a deal through then the question needs to be asked as to where we go from there, at this is where the peoples vote could come in.

    #1705043
    Dandy
    Dandy
    Participant
    • :

    Shouldn’t the question then be pax, why can’t she and can someone else? She can’t because of the complexity of the separation.
    Why move to chuck it back to the public because May negotiated poorly and Labour have agitated for two years.
    The will of the public remains but the political will isn’t respecting there.
    If the government collapses shouldn’t labour try negotiate a deal?

    #1705047

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    MP’s are turning their noses up at the deal because it will make us poorer as a country, well der, did they think we would leave and be better off, of course not, there is a cost for taking back our sovereignty. All the people moaning about the government, all these take back control, it is this government that will have the control 🙂

    #1705117
    AK
    AK
    Participant
    • :

    Dandy “Do you think the referendum result (with the largest turnout in British history)should be respected IF Theresa May can somehow get a deal through parliament. Yes or No please.”

    YES

    “the difficulty cutting ties with the EU exemplifies why people voted leave.”

    Why is the EU obliged to give as a great deal? its like saying i want all the benefits of being in the EU without any of what we think are the bad points. I am surprised that the EU have not just turned around & said if u want to leave take a no deal & piss off!

    Sovereignty is a word that has often been used in this debate but i do not think we lost any sovereignty by joining the EU so i am not sure what exactly we are taking back. I guess sometimes you just need someone to blame & its easier to point the finger at someone else.

    #1705135

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    AK – I am with you I can’t see any benefits of leaving only negatives but it is all opinion.

    I think one of the MP’s summed it quite well today saying, ‘Maybe the deal on the table is the best one for us to take, it has some of what the leavers want and some of what the remains want, so seeing as the country is split almost 50/50 this deal nobody gets everything they want but everyone gets a bit of what they want, so no real winner and no real losers.

    #1705137

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    The other thing people don’t think about is if we leave and things don’t work out and then then go back in 10 years time when there will be a pro EU majority you can bet your house they will only let us in if we convert to the Euro as they have wanted us to be part of the single currency for ages.

    #1705158

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    It will be this deal tweaked to overcome some of the back stop issues, no deal or no Brexit. I seriously doubt it will go to the Country again it would be totally undemocratic to overule the first vote.

    #1705159
    Dandy
    Dandy
    Participant
    • :

    AK- I haven’t suggested and don’t expect the EU to make our exit easy. In fact, they have made it as difficult as expected. The don’t want any other nation following suit.

    The EU don’t want a no deal it will harm them just as much as us. I’m surprised you would think that.

    There are hundreds of potential positives from leaving the EU. If you don’t know what they are, do some research.

    I don’t need to apportion blame AK I lead a comfortable life, Brexit will have close to zero impact on me or my family. I have faith in Britain, historically we’re innovative and resourceful along with incredibly dogged.

    #1705184
    AK
    AK
    Participant
    • :

    Dandy the point about blaming someone was not directed at you personally just a general observation.

    With regards to the points u made on the benifts of leaving I agree there will be some points of benifit but from an overall view the benifts of staying far outweigh that of leaving in my view. In any case we are past that point I am more interested in what happens next & that’s why I would like to see a vote even if it’s between no deal & Mays deal.

    I would be in the camp of no deal BTW

    #1705188
    AK
    AK
    Participant
    • :

    Pax I very much doubt we would go back in to the EU not for a very very very long time. What frustrates me is that people don’t get that we already have a good deal compared to all other EU members but we have been sold a pipe dream. And most politicians have used the recent turmoil to try and further there own career & agendas I kind of feel sorry for May she had no chance of success. A poisoned chalice if u may….

    #1705201
    Wonderfuel Gas
    Wonderfuel Gas
    Participant
    • :

    With incredibly dogged what, dandy?

    Cats?

    #1705251

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    AK – I agree we probably won’t go back in for a very long time, unless we absolutely have to, that is what I said, if things go tits up and we have to crawl back to the EU to ask to go back in. Which I very much doubt will happen.

    Yes things will be more expensive, yes unemployment will grow, yes national security will be compromised, yes there is the Irish issue, but I am sure we will struggle on and get through it. Also at least these English people that can’t get a job at the moment can go out and get fruit picker jobs doing 13 hour days at minimum wage, I bet they can’t wait for those jobs to become available.

    #1705261

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    Dandy – ‘I don’t need to apportion blame AK I lead a comfortable life, Brexit will have close to zero impact on me or my family’

    Err same here, but I tend to think of other people apart from myself, but I suppose that is what us loony lefties do. Not that I would class myself as a leftie, but others on here have done. 🙂

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