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  • #1951585

    captkirk
    Participant
    • :

    We are in a very precarious position and have to count on the goodwill of Man Utd and Ole to have a slim chance of qualifying for Europe. That’s very demoralising because it’s likely that Gary will come out and ask Ole to play the reserves against Leicester, and the latter will duly oblige.

    It is quite obvious that Fabinho and Hendo at the back was a failed experiment and it’s not even a case of being wise after the event because every single poster here were putting Phillips in their starting line up sine January, after he came out with flying colours in his debut against West Ham. It’s not a big leap to believe that with Nat and Rhys at the back we wouldn’t have lost 6 games at home, and it’s probable Hendo could have been afforded some rest and wouldn’d have been injured in his preferred position. Instead he was asked to sprint againt the likes of Vardy and his injury wasn’t a surprise. Imo we would have had at least seven more points in those eighteen that we lost if he had deployed the youngsters at the back. We would have been comfortably in the CL places.

    Another problem that hindered us is the front three misfiring, as Salah and Mane seem to give their agenda priority over the interest of the team. Analysing this recently I’m inclined to think that Salah should shoulder the blame for the shortcoming upfront. He has scored many goals but he misses many chances also. It was Mane who had a go at him a few times for not squaring the ball, and I firmly believe that Mane had good intentions, was a team player but Salah’s attitude played on his nerves and he started retaliating. Salah’s head was turned when he made the cover of Time and his appetite for hogging the limelight is uncontrollable. Firmino I would absolve as he was caught in the middle, Bingo has stressed on that aspect also.

    If Salah was a team player like Foden for example, think Mane would have continued to deliver the goods like he did when he first joined and we would likely have had six more points in the bag. Thus even with VVD out, adding this to the tally of seven more points If Klopp hadn’t tinkered with his selections, we would have been close to City.

    Now that we are in danger I predicted that we would see more selfless play from Salah and Mane but while Mane seems eager to forget his feud, Salah leaves it as a last resort to pass the ball, even yesterday Mane was clearly frustrated. It pains me to say this, but I think we should cash on Salah in the next transfer window and move Mane to the right.

    #1951593

    Sean the sailor
    Participant
    • :

    Salah has played mane in many times recently Kirk. Twice againest Newcastle but bad touches were manes fault . Salah is a machine. His numbers are unreal. Hopefully he gets a new contract. I hope we keep all the front 3. I still believe they will come good again even Bobby

    We have massively missed Hendo and he wouldn’t have tolerated that shit show in Madrid .

    Klopp has had an awful season. Bizarre selections and subs etc. Continuing to play a high line when we don’t have the personnel.

    Injuries have really killed us. No fans has killed us. Season is a total right off. Some players are absolutely exhausted

    We still have a brilliant team when we get everyone back. Elliot now comes back into the frame as genuine contender to play some games next season.

    The owners need to make amens so they need to support the manager this season. Our squad is light compared to cities and Chelsea

    Get a few out and use the money well. Can’t get over how bad we have become but we will bounce back

    You look at Chelsea’s players midweek. Absolutely running their balls off and hunting in packs. We don’t seem to have the energy for that or the players just can’t be both. The lack of effort at times just pisses me off.

    Full confidence in our manager abd look forward to next season

    #1951611
    Razor
    Razor
    Participant
    • :

    If it was my team I’d get rid of both of them because this sort of dysfunction just isn’t acceptable at any level. I seriously doubt that Salah is ever going to change and Mane himself has been guilty of doing the same. Even if it’s out of retaliation, this sort of behavior just isn’t acceptable. However, this is the real world and these 2 are world class players. It’s not so easy to replace 1 let alone both of them. Realistically what are the options here? We also operate with a rigid system where not many people can fill in the same gaps and Klopp has shown that he would rather fit square pegs into round holes than change his system. If we let go of 1, we have to hope that any one who comes in can do the same job. Either that or the dynamic of the 3 has to change which would inevitably change the dynamic of the rest of the team. We also don’t know how changing this dynamic will impact on the team. I just don’t see that happening.

    All that said, something needs to change and fast. All this should have been nipped in the bud when Mane was throwing tantrums in response to selfish play or when Salah was openly showing his displeasure at being taken off. Would I be upset if we got rid of our front 3? Possibly, but that entirely depends on how we handle the aftermath. It won’t be easy to replace these players but it isn’t impossible. We’ve come back from losing Gerrard, Torres, Suarez etc. No player is bigger than the club and even after these players are gone, the club will still be here. These are not the only world class players in the world and all of them could do better. If the decision to sell players leads to the club performing better, then no one here would have an issue. However the main apprehension comes from the actual task of finding replacements that allow us to operate at the highest level again.

    #1951698

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    “I’m inclined to think that Salah should shoulder the blame for the shortcoming upfront.”

    Bonkers!
    Absolutely bonkers!!
    I just can’t…nope.

    #1951711
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
    • :

    I think Salah is already shouldering enough and would go so far as to say that he’s been shouldering the dead weight of the entire frontline this season. Is he a little selfish, yes but I’d also think that in his time together with the other 2 in the front line, that he either has more assists than either, or is at least close enough to back up a claim that he puts in others more than he gets credit for.

    A big problem for Salah’s image is that he misses a fair bit. I’ve gone into detail before about why I have no issue with his misses… in short, he gets himself into the right place for the chances in the first place, probably better than any other PL player ever. Each season, Salah scores crazy amounts of goals, yet is “wasteful”. Does this happen because Liverpool are the most creative team in the history of football? No, it’s because he knows where the play is going.

    I just don’t see the rationale in blaming Salah for Mane’s poor season. So many games, Mane has not looked quite sharp, or just totally out of ideas. How bad has Mane’s touch been sometimes? His finishing hasn’t been there and it’s Salah’s fault? No, Mane must carry his own weight out there on the pitch, along with his own amount of blame for any lost points.

    As for the backline, that definitely impacted performances and almost certainly results. Klopp has had his first bad season as manager, in my eyes but I am confident that he’ll bounce back. I think FSG have got some bouncing back to do also and it’ll have a cumulative element to it, to have them both doing so at the same time. By this I mean FSG sanctioning big signings and Klopp and the lads just pushing the reset button, getting back to the training pitches. That is what Klopp loves best and the last time we got this, we eventually saw improvements. Not enough but some.

    The CL is still possible and if we were to get that, it would be a real “carrot”. If not then it’ll be the “stick”. I think either could work for us but we’d all like to see us in the CL 😀

    #1951757

    captkirk
    Participant
    • :

    Mak : Get what you’re saying but we must not forget that Mane was shifted from his preferred position to accomodate Salah. Didn’t make a big fuss and got on with the job, though he’s not entirely faultless also.

    Anyway lads just don’t think we need to rest on our laurels and think that everything will be alright once VVd comes back. We need to ask the tough questions and take drastic measures if necessary like Razor has said. We were guilty of not being proactive in the times of transition from Dalglish and Souness and I wouln’t want a repeat of that.

    As for Salah, his reactions when substituted, even taking to twitter, and the captaincy episode would make me point towards him if I were to name a divisive figure in the dressing room. No other credible candidate comes to mind.

    #1951820

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    Mané was “shifted” 4yrs ago. Then went on to play the best football of his career. He wasn’t shifted just at the start of this season.
    He has missed countless basic chances this year and has had terrible decision making for 6+ mths now. He also had very little time off from football in a few yrs now so I’ve faith he’ll come good again.

    Why does there have to be any divisive figure in the dressing room?
    What’s with this clamour about having to blame someone for this years failings?

    #1952107
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
    • :

    It’s our nature to blame really but I agree, I don’t think it has to come down to just the players or manager, although they are of course not faultless. Mane will probably come good but his fall from grace has been alarming, to say the least. I still do not see how this comes down to being Salah’s fault though and forgive the suggestion but I think maybe you’re developing a bit of personal bias towards him that is throwing you off.

    I don’t have too much of a problem with any of those things you’ve listed about Salah. I havent seen what he said on twitter though, unless you mean his agent and the fullstop tweet? That is not Salah, if that’s it. If I were to pick at either player for something, it would be Mane for diving. Let’s get the “everyone does it” thing out of the way fast, I don’t like to see our players dive instead of play the game and so often.

    As for VVD, nobody is expecting things to come good just cause he’s back. For me it’s more about putting this entire season behind us. We were hardly great before VVD got injured. Ok, we started in a winning manner, I think we were top around Xmas?.. horrible memory… but we never looked like pre-covid Liverpool to me, at any stage.

    I would sell one of them this summer but it wouldnt have anything to do with my thoughts about them unsettling the other etc. I mean, maybe they do hate eachother and things have turned toxic between them. If that’s the case then it’s 2 to tango and I see one player still doing his thing and scoring a rake of goals.

    anyway, we can agree to disagree, if needs be. Who knows, maybe we’ll sell em both! 😀

    #1952163

    redsforever
    Participant
    • :

    Our top goalscorer in the league, whos running for the golden boot AGAIN, is to blame for the misfiring front 3? Sorry captkirk.. but that is just nonsense

    #1952208
    j c
    j c
    Participant
    • :

    In my opinion we are really not far off from the best teams in world football.

    Evidenced by the fact, this squad and these methods won us the league and European cup not long ago.

    The tactical changes that took us backwards were entirely forced on us.
    So let’s hope the owners back the manager and get the defense and midfield sorted out.

    We need proper depth, for when guys like Hendo or VVD are out. I’m sure then you’ll see the other guys back to their best.

    When one small thing is off, the whole team and manager can end up looking really bad. But we are a good outfit, and the only reset we need is a couple of good signings and the next season to start.

    #1952209

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
    • :

    I reckon Mane needs the fans more than Salah, I think the crowd drives him on more than it does for Mo…

    Plenty of strikers have had a bad relationship with each other, they often view each other as rivals instead of partners… Suarez and Sturridge were not the best of friends but Luis managed to spur Daniel on to play his best football of his career…

    But every relationship has its end and I reckon that will happen in the summer, with either Mane or Salah leaving for PSG, they both fit the profile that PSG need to replace Mbappe…

    I reckon Salah could score around 40-50 goals in the French division, he is much better professional than Neymar for example, much more dedicated and determined even though you could argue about their technical ability… Mane could easily up his numbers there as well so I reckon we should prepare ourselves for a bid for either one as PSG will be desperate to replace Mbappe and profiles that fit for them are not that many…

    Its basically Salah, Mane, Haaland, Kane, Lukaku, Ronaldo, Messi and Lewondowski

    #1952222

    Sean the sailor
    Participant
    • :

    But bingo I thought mbappe and Alba were coming to us mate????

    Jc, totally agree. Everything that could go wrong this season , has gone wrong

    Fans back be huge for us. Gets guys back from Injury and spend well.

    This season is a complete write off. Can’t wait till it’s over. Fresh start next seasin

    #1952226

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    Can someone provide any evidence of this toxic/bad relationship between Salah and Mané??

    #1952227

    gingerlfc
    Participant
    • :

    “But bingo I thought mbappe and Alba were coming to us mate????”

    We defo weren’t bringing in any centrebacks in Jan either.

    #1952244

    NotoriousBingo
    Participant
    • :

    Alba??? You mean Alaba? I don´t think he is a possibility anymore with Konate coming in but Mbappe remains on our radar, especially with PSG hot for our two strikers…

    #1952322

    Sean the sailor
    Participant
    • :

    Alaba has gone to Madrid chum last I heard

    #1952347
    Razor
    Razor
    Participant
    • :

    Last I heard, nothing’s been confirmed yet. More of a “likely to sign” sort of scenario. Anyway, I don’t see the need for him unless we got rid of Tsimikas. Even then, he would be a very expensive cover option for Robertson. Don’t think he has the aerial presence required to survive in the PL as a CB.

    #1952348
    Rob Fort Worth TX
    Rob Fort Worth TX
    Participant
    • :

    Ginger, lots of conjecture regarding Mane and Mo for sure. I see it as a healthy and competitive relationship.

    Finally folks, Mbappe is on 600k a week at PSG. We simply cannot afford that (esp. in Covid times) and he and his sponsors will want CL football.

    #1952354
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
    • :

    “Can someone provide any evidence of this toxic/bad relationship between Salah and Mané??”

    I wasn’t meaning to suggest that there was, only offering that hypothetical because of what capt is saying.

    I don’t think they have a toxic relationship. Sometimes they get slightly annoyed with each other for not passing but when I played, myself and my friend would get into blazing arguments and be absolutely fine a few minutes later.

    #1952355

    Kickass23
    Participant
    • :

    Get SON from Spurs.

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