November 26, 2019 at 12:54 pm #1802376
@kopite – He had a big 140m windfall thanks to Brendon Rodgers getting Coutinho in for peanuts and was then allowed to spend all that dosh and more very quickly on the players I mentioned, that’s a fact.
Poch has had no such luxury, as for selling Kane to fund a rebuild, that’s just ridiculous. The Spurs fans would have been hanging burning effigy’s of Daniel Levy all over North London if that had even been rumoured, never mind if it had actually happened.November 26, 2019 at 1:11 pm #1802385
@mike2005 – If Ole hadn’t signed off on new deals for the likes of Jones, Lindelof, Pereira, Mata, Young and others since he got the job I might have some slight semblance of hope that he has a clue. Just those decisions alone blow that notion right out of the water I’m afraid.
Oh and by the way, we shouldn’t be having to find “World class” players to “protect” a guy that we have just paid 80m big ones for. He should be the one doing the protecting don’t you think?, especially seeing as he’s the most expensive defender in the history of world football ever!
If that truly is the case, we might as well have just kept Chris Smalling at OT and saved our 80m.November 26, 2019 at 1:13 pm #1802387
Didn’t Levy sanction a big spending after the sale of Bale?November 26, 2019 at 1:18 pm #1802388
You also forgot the number of summers Klopp has made a profit on transfer fees.November 26, 2019 at 1:25 pm #1802390
Can’t remember to be honest, it’s irrelevant anyway because Poch wasn’t even Spurs manager then. Either way, pretty certain it didn’t involve paying world record fees for goalkeepers and centre halves like Klopp has, or even anything remotely close to it.November 26, 2019 at 1:31 pm #1802395
Regardless, Coutinho transfer fee was spent wisely. For that matter, if Poch were to sell Kane and spent the money wisely, I don’t think Spurs fans would have an issue.November 26, 2019 at 1:42 pm #1802400
Just checked the facts, between 1st Jan and 19th July 2018 Klopp spent 250 million on VVD, Keita, Fabinho, Shaqiri and Allison (source lfchistory.net). That was the catalyst to everything we are seeing now to which I was referring earlier.
I doubt very much that Poch has been allowed to buy players to that value in his entire 5 years at Spurs, never mind in just 6 months.November 26, 2019 at 3:09 pm #1802435
I think I’ll weigh in a bit over Maguire. Firstly, let me be clear that the fee we paid for him means we need to be seeing quality in every aspect of his game. That means passing, tackling, taking the lead, aerial battles, everything.
That being said I will hold off on a judgement but I have to agree with Blacky that he’s simply not been good enough thus far. What worries me the most is he seems to be following a similar pattern to other players who join us – he’s getting worse. When he first joined he looked worth every penny to me, he was calm, confident and absolutely dominant even with his undeniable lack of pace. He was MoM in his first game and carried that form for a fair few games.
He has looked worse and worse lately to me and I venture to say it is because of the following:
– Bad coaching/management – barring McTominay, Wan Bissaka, and Dan James none of our players play consistently to their potential; I seriously worry if these players will also eventually lose their form as Manchester United usually does to players lately. Nothing to me points to Ole or any of his staff having especially good football coaching skills. I would bet my left bollock that we would not have conceded that last minute equaliser to Sheffield if Mourinho was in charge.
– Midfield – our midfield options were rubbish from the beginning but as soon as our key player got injured (McTominay) we were sliced open all afternoon with absolute ease. If you put van Dijk in that side with the same protection from midfield he would also look stupid several times a game chasing shadows while trying to make up for everyone else’s deficiencies. Our midfield quality and depth is more fit for a relegation side.
At this point, Maguire’s form and statistics for several teams over several years before joining us means that I have to point at his environment when looking at his poor form before pointing at him. Also bear in mind that when you put players like Ashley Young, Phil Jones, Fred, Pereira, Lindelof (aerially) etc. next to any accomplished central defender on a football pitch, he will immediately assume he has to pick up the slack for their mistakes and will be pulled all over the pitch.
I’ve mentioned in the other thread where some were throwing Poch’s name around that at this point we have pretty much played our cards with Ole and in Texas Hold’Em poker terms we now have to wait for the turn and river cards. It makes no project management or business sense to start ripping up the project halfway. We have no choice but to wait for Ole to buy several first team players and to see how his vision plays out.November 26, 2019 at 4:19 pm #1802465
@hatters on the coaching point AWB and Dan James are both Ole’s buys, and McT is an academy player he’s building around. Out of all the others, is there anyone that we’d expect to be performing every week, or has history of performing? Maybe Rashford?
If you look at the list of defenders that Maguire would be doing training drills and tactics with every week:
Rojo, Dalot, Tuanzebe, Jones, Shaw, Bailly, AWB have all had extended periods out.
What’s left is a training session of Lindelof, Young and Williams, mixed with whichever other is fit that week.
There is clearly an issue with the integration of new signings into the right culture that’s been going on for years though. Bailly looked like Jaap Stam when he joined, Dalot was the best young full-back in Europe, Mkhitaryan was frequently described as the best player at the club, Pogba was the best midfielder in Europe, Shaw was a phenomenally good youngster at Southampton.
If you just took that small handful of players and got them to play to their potential, we’d have a great team.November 26, 2019 at 4:55 pm #1802485
@mike2005 – Come on mate stop acting like an apologist for some of these useless fuckers, you’re beginning to act like your their agent!. For example, who in fucks name ever said that Dalot was “the best full back in Europe”?, I doubt even his Dad under the influence of an African Woodbine would have spouted such total nonsense!😂😂😂😂
He was he a crock when we bought him and he’s been so much of a crock ever since that he makes lardy Luke seem indestructible! Not only that, he couldn’t defend his own arse down the gay village on a Friday night, never mind on a football pitch so I don’t know how he ever got the gig as a full back in the first place.
He can be filed away in the folder marked “nowhere near good enough” along with far too many of the others, simple as that.November 26, 2019 at 5:49 pm #1802493
Another thing you’ll be waiting from now until eternity for is Luke Shaw or Eric Bailly to be anything other than what they already are, ie a massive big fat let down. Shaw is already in his 6th season at the club and Bailly is in his 4th and other than on the odd very rare occasion have they shown any of this great “potential” of which you speak. Not only that they are both about as robust as a poppadom.
To say either one of them could be part of a “great team” in the future is just wildly optimistic, cloud cuckoo land thinking I’m afraid. Both of them need to be cleared out of OT at the very earliest opportunity, not kept on to contribute precisely fuck all from one year to the next and continually be given big new contracts they plainly don’t deserve.November 26, 2019 at 9:44 pm #1802520
Have to say Blacky, i think there is something in what Mike is hinting at. Maybe not down to coaching but something. Hard to believe with all the players through the door and money spent that not one single one can be considered a proper success. Quite a few have started well but gone to shit. Looking at players like Pogba stinking the place out is baffling. There is just something toxic about the whole thing the past 5 years. I’m even starting to worry about AWB. Began great but has started to drop away the past few weeksNovember 26, 2019 at 10:03 pm #1802531
AWB is only 21 and facing real scrutiny for the first time in his life. At 21 I’m not sure I would have coped with the pressure of having everything I did judged.
Even in our current state we are still a huge story/media draw. The public dissection of everything they do must affect the players. Even with the best psychological prep in the world it must be difficult.
Remember how England players used struggle with the expectancy of playing at Wembley, it seems a similar thing affects the players when they play for UtdNovember 27, 2019 at 7:35 am #1802569
@N1xer- We’ve been terrible at identifying and bringing in the right players for well over a decade mate, it’s nothing new. Ferguson’s record in the last few years of his tenure was fucking terrible, one clown was followed by another and another and another.
Let’s face it, half of these self entitled fuckers just haven’t got what it takes between the ears to be successful, never mind the talent. They are far more concerned with their own personal agendas, social media profiles, big houses and flash cars, and they’ve all got their own ‘team” of hangers on blowing smoke up their arses telling them how great they are, even when they are stinking out the shirt every week.
The continued awarding of big new contracts to guys who have failed year after year is also a problem, and sends the wrong message that no matter how shite you are you are still going to be looked after. Fuck me, if Phil Jones sees out the full term of his latest deal he will have been at the club as long as Bryan Robson was!
As for Pogba, that’s another thing Ole has got wrong I’m afraid, because as soon as he went public on wanting to leave Ole should have told Woodturd that he didn’t want him and his agent poisoning the atmosphere in the dressing room and got him out of the club, but he was far too weak to take that big decision.
It was obvious that he would down tools, just like he did under Mourinho and there have been quite a few rumours circulating recently that he has played his last game for the club and that his injury is just a smokescreen so that he gets his move away in January.November 27, 2019 at 8:18 am #1802574
Blacky: As I’ve said, I rate Poch as a manager but to suggest that Klopp is some kind of cheque manager is plain stupid. Yes, we spent 250m during that period you mentioned but 145m recouped through the sale of Coutinho. Fact is Klopp has spent less than 70m since he arrived. In fact, Liverpool rank 14th, one rank higher than Spurs in terms of net spend for the last 5 Seasons.November 27, 2019 at 8:40 am #1802579
I agree with Mike that Vidic had protection and a good partner at CB. But Blacky is also right. Due to our attacking nature during that period. Vidic had to do loads of defending one on one where you would be isolated 1 vs 1. Like Terry he always positioned himself well to stop himself being caight out. Don’t get me wrong he had a period where Torres gave him a tough time.November 27, 2019 at 9:04 am #1802588
Kopite, without using the chequebook there is no way Klopp would have coached a team with Mingolet or Karius in goal to the Champions League final. Klopp used the chequebook to fix a problem he couldn’t coach out of the squad. All managers do it. Some just have more funds available than others.November 27, 2019 at 9:29 am #1802596
@kopite – You’re getting to be a bit boring and sending my glass eye to sleep now pal, without that massive 250m outlay in 2018 Klopp would still be struggling to achieve a top 4 place with the group of mainly average players he had available at that time, FACT.
Now run along back to your own page pal, there’s a good chap.November 27, 2019 at 9:39 am #1802598
@blacky To defend these players wasn’t my point at all. The point was that they were all good players before they joined us, but went downhill after joining the club.
I said Dalot was the best “young” fullback, as in for his age group. He was in the Porto first team, highly rated for internation u21’s and putting in top performances in the champions league. Mourinho came out publicly and stated he was expected to get straight into the first team.
There’s an issue with signing bad players, but there’s also been an issue getting any new players to reach their level.November 27, 2019 at 10:00 am #1802607
Mike2005 – Do you think these young prospects struggle because our older players are shit? Usually they need to be molded in with good established older players but we don’t seem to have many of them.
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