The FA Cup Final Sat May 14th KO 4.45pm (what's with that?)

This topic contains 151 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by MrMakaveli MrMakaveli 1 year, 10 months ago.

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  • #2095808
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
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    I strongly disagree with you there RH. I think Fabinho might be the best number 6 on the planet. If not, he’s in the conversation IMO. There are some positions where mistakes can be really kinda emboldened. DM’s CB’s and the obvious one, keepers.

    I don’t want to re-open too much, especially as we’d be going from almost entirely historical opinion but fabinho’s reading of the game (defensively) is on another level. He’s much better at getting stuck in but more importantly, when to do it.

    “I think everyone on here is of the same opinion that Thiago – Fabinho – Henderson is our best midfield 3”
    That says a bit about the quality of our options, I suppose, as usually there might be some kind of debate. Were Keita a better player, I suppose he’d be in contention. Both played well in the final though, so credit where it’s due.
    I think we’ve got to really focus on conditioning players like Hendo especially, for the CL final. I’m not gonna say “forget this PL nonsense”, because I think we can do both… But let’s get him fresh and also try not to get Keita injured in case we need him.
    We could really have done without the 120 but it’s worth it if you get the cup after the extra 30.

    #2095855

    Mikus
    Participant
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    I do agree RH. Without wanting to start another Henderson debate, I think most concede he’s not the most talented in the world, but why I think managers love players like him, is because he tends to make very few mistakes, not losing the ball etc, as well as obeying the managers instructions to a t on the pitch. I’ve always said Fabinho would rightly have been considered one of the best holding players in world football about 10 to 15 years ago, certainly with regards to his reading of the game. But the pace of the game now means that pace is now pretty much a prerequisite for that position. What obviously helps him in our team is the pressing and energy of the players around him, so we can generally deal with the pace issue. As for Keita & Thiago, while both give something more up front, then can both be very loose in possession in midfield, which with our high line, can give us moments of danger. Again, our pressing to win the ball back helps so it doesn’t give us too many issues, and we’ve now conceded the same goals as City even though they have a much lower expected goals against them. Alisson also very good here in one on one’s against him as Carragher has pointed out. Though if the press is eased back in a game, particularly against better opposition, it obviously gives us problems.

    So one to be wary of, but in terms of where we do need to get better, I’m probably going to commit blasphemy here, but if we look at the table now, City have scored more and won more than us so if we need to improve anywhere its here. Last season, when we went through that awful patch of that run of home games, I still maintain it was more an issue of our forward players not performing than the issues in defence and midfield at that time. I think our front 3 of Bobby, Salah and Mane peaked a few years ago, and I think Bobby was crucial in that setup of setting up the other two as many have said. Yes, Salah and Mane have still had a very good season, but I still think that forward line overall as a unit peaked several years ago. Whilst Diaz has been a welcome addition, I think we need to think hard about replacing Bobby in terms of helping the link up, as his best years now do look behind him. And without one sitting deeper our forwards can descend into becoming every one for himself and being too selfish. Can Carvalho be that replacement straight away? He’ll have to be very good very quickly if he is.

    #2095884
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
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    You agree that Hendo is a better DM than Fabinho? I thought RH would be a one off, maybe this is a much wider opinion than I expected. Anyone else?

    As for Thiago, he can give the ball away at crucial times but he’s arguably the 2nd best midfielder in the PL. To me, he’s sensational and integral in giving our midfield depth, whilst Fabinho enables the definition of the trios individual identities on the pitch. Age is a problem for 2 of them, as it is min other positions. I think FSG will address this and probably sell on Mane or someone that may shock people here, this summer. I’ve gone into why before.
    Winning this FA Cup has taken the pressure off, as the quadruple is almost certainly out of sight and to then come away with 2 from 3 wouldnt be seen as a shocking failure by anyone.
    Wrap Thiago, Hendo, Salah, VVD in cotton wool. any other possibilities to rest, brilliant. Sorry Salah, golden boot can wait til next season… we’ve more important things in mind, like you having your killer instinct back for revenge against Real.

    #2095895

    Mikus
    Participant
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    I think it’s complicated Mak by the fact that it’s the overall press and energy of the team that counteracts any deficiencies the players may have. We also tend to dominate the ball vs most teams. But vs better opposition or more physical teams, we can struggle more, and if the team isn’t pressing hard, these players can look more – well I won’t say exposed, but they can seem more vulnerable. In some ways, the ‘press’ is the most important ‘player’ in the team. After that, I think it’s the forward line that are most important and as I say, I think a Bobby replacement is crucial soon.

    #2095899
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
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    Ya, it isn’t always a tactical decision for us to not press, as in order for the press to work, you must first set the trap. Some teams are either so skilled that they can play the ball around at a tempo that doesn’t allow us to guide the play into a position where we can then pounce on them, or they can be nimble enough and unshakable, that they get out of trouble and then exploit the space that we’ve created.
    The 2nd part is one of the main reasons why I think we miss Wijnaldum. Before people jump on me, I’m not saying that he was the best ever… I’m just saying that he had something about him that was exceptional for how we played, even if he also had weaknesses in his game. His rather unfancied superpower was his ability to ,not be dispossessed under extreme pressure. I’m not sure he’d be in this team now today, as I think Thiago was a replacement for him and it’s a whole conversation but damn, he’d still get a lot of minutes in this side… Unlike at PSG where they don’t seem to care about team balance.
    [
    I agree regards Firmino. I’ve agreed with that for a while but there’s that part of you that doesn’t want to let go. It’ll be a sad day when himself and these other legends go but one by one, they will and sooner than we’d like.
    We’ll bring in more like Diaz hopefully, who will earn a place in our hearts but this great side will always have a special place in my heart. My only worry (and others have expressed it too) is that they won’t get the trophies that they deserve.
    They didn’t need the LC, FA Cup or the potential PL or CL this season in order to be legends but damn, they’d raise it to the status that I feel they deserve.
    To me, the CL is the only realistic one but if people want to be on here rubbing it in my face that I was wrong and after we win the PL… well, please do this. Let’s make this happen 😛

    #2095906

    redsforever
    Participant
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    Fabinho is a better CDM than hendo.

    #2095929
    Rob Fort Worth TX
    Rob Fort Worth TX
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    With City dropping points v West Ham (should have lost it but that’s Moyes for you) our target(s) have changed. Klopp will want three points tomorrow. Anything less and it’s over. If City had won then we would see a different line-up than what we will see tomorrow for sure.

    Anything can happen next weekend. I don’t expect City to lose v Villa but I also said they’d ‘win out’ and they didn’t. When City ‘need’ to win, they do, and I expect them to get three or four against Villa. We will also beat Wolves on Sunday so it’s imperative we go big, strong and do the business tomorrow and then the boys get a good rest Wednesday and go again Thursday.

    33 years ago I was in the Kop expecting a good win or at least a draw against an Arsenal side who had just drawn at home to Wimbledon and lost at home against Derby.

    Anything can happen.

    #2095935
    Red Herring
    Red Herring
    Participant
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    Please don’t get this Henderson-Fabinho out of proportion as they are both great Liverpool stalwarts who can both play No. 6 role very well, but they are different players and each has their own strengths and weaknesses relative to the other. Fabinho far exceeds Hendo in some aspects of CDM play, but you just can’t hide his lack of pace and the ease that opposition players can sometimes glide past him if he hasn’t been able to ‘read the play’ sufficiently well to not get his weakness exposed. It doesn’t happen very often, but it happens frequently enough to recognise it as a definite problem. I just feel that Hendo is a more rounded player who will never drop below a 6/10 performance. Before Fabinho went off injured against Villa on 30 minutes, he was having an absolute mare of a game and you’d be pushed to rate him as more than 3/10. Maybe I’m wrong, but I couldn’t envisage Henderson dropping his performance levels this much. Let me just stress again that I love seeing Fab-Thiago-Hendo starting, but when Fab is out injured, it’s not Hendo dropping into No.6 that concerns me, it’s more to do with Keita coming in who can be an ‘OK’ on his day, but I can never see him influencing the game like the other 3 can.

    #2095937
    Sanj1
    Sanj1
    Participant
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    Captain Hendo been more than great for us Ginger ! Legend’s legend !

    As for the league. I think the West Ham / City draw yesterday helps us as the gd would have been a huge ask to claw back with just two games remaining had the Hammers won.

    Can Villa get a draw Rob ?

    Gerrard & Couts will still feel what happened from when we needed a point against Chelsea & lost the game & the league under Brendan.

    Ings is also at Villa & with Grealish facing his old side I agree that anything can still happen.

    We need to focus on just winning our last two games & dont need a cricket score to win them.

    The rest really is up to destiny.

    Come on the Redmen ! ynwa

    #2095940
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
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    Holy shit Rob, you were there? It’s a piece of history that in a way you’d like to have forgotten but I bet it doesn’t sting so much now that we’ve won the title again, become champions of Europe etc etc.
    [
    RH, No worries man. I myself said the last day that losing Fabinho is a bit like losing 2 players, because agree or disagree, hendo out of the 8 and Keita in, is a major step down. It’s a bit like 2 years ago when we had the defensive injuries and had to take Fabinho out of CDM and drop him back to cover for our lack of CB’s.
    [
    Funnily enough, it’s this very concept that actually gives us a glimmer of hope, in that City have Fernandinho covering and honestly, West Ham should have had more goals. Goals that maybe Villa can manage with Coutinho, Ings and Watkins.
    [
    I don’t want to hope too much.
    [
    Rob, you could argue that a draw was the worst possible result for us. It could jeopardize or CL effort, whilst offering absolutely nothing in return. I’m not making this assertion, as I am in 2 minds but I am comfortable in knowing that I think Klopp will make the right call. He’ll pick his priorities if required and after that, we just have to hope that the lads perform and that lady luck helps us to make this the greatest season in club football history.
    [
    “Can Villa get a draw Rob ?”

    I know you’re not directing this to me but as I was typing earlier and now reading this… fuck it, we’ve got to believe that they can. I can only imagine Gerrard and the ex-Liverpool lads firing the rest of the team up. Most of them have no love for our club but they’ll want to impress their manager. There will be some on that team who will be willing to run through a brick wall for him. Motivation is only half of it and it is an away game. It’ll be incredibly difficult for them but if they can nick a goal, that crowd will get nervy.

    #2095941
    MrMakaveli
    MrMakaveli
    Blocked
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    I’ll add to that actually. If WE have already beaten Southampton and on the last day we score early and Villa get the first goal, the City fans will get nervy.

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