Was Andy Gray Right?

This topic contains 33 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  CFC1905 5 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #1650100
    foxyfoxes
    foxyfoxes
    Participant
    • :

    I watched the Brazil game yesterday and saw the Brazilians and Neymar in particular get extremely frustrated in their search for a winning goal. Neymar was not playing well at all. When Coutinho finally got the opening goal, I noticed suddenly Neymar was trying show off tricks (rainbow flick) and all of a sudden he was playing with confidence.

    It got me thinking, was Andy Gray right when he talked about Messi saying “Can he do it on a cold winter night in Stoke”? This is hugely relevant to Messi in this world cup too who clearly is struggling to lift his team when the going gets tough. It’s all well and good looking like the best player in the world when you’re smashing Getafe 7-1, but what about when you need that little bit of something special to open up a defence? Where are they?

    #1650103
    Blueowner
    Blueowner
    Participant
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    I must have some kind of ailment for a moment I was reading this as Was Andy Wright gay. It’s sad and worrying that all the cream from our clubs land up at those 2 Spanish clubs. If it was me I would any day rather choose to play under the massive world wide limelight of the EPL. Sometimes I wonder if even the players are aware of the unbelievable exposure of the EPL. No other competition in any sport comes even a bit close. The world cup is only once in 4 years so can’t count that.

    #1650104
    foxyfoxes
    foxyfoxes
    Participant
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    fully agree. You now have me thinking if there are any footballers who have come into the Premiership with massive reputations and truly lived up to them? I can only think of players who have failed to deliver (Eto, Shevchenko, Crespo, Veron, Schweinsteiger, Robinho). Ozil and Sanchez have delivered in drabs but are all too often AWOL when the going gets tough.
    Actually I can think of one, Zlatan, but even then it was only one season

    #1650105
    foxyfoxes
    foxyfoxes
    Participant
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    oh and Bergkamp certainly lived up to his rep

    #1650106

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
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    Argentina are a mess they were a mess qualifying and they’ve taken that to the tournament with both their squad and team selections have been highly questionable Caballero is a reserve keeper with mistakes in him for goodness sake played ahead of a regular Keeper by Sampaoli.

    There are also clearly massive divides in the Camp and a lack of support for Sampaoli there are even calls for him to go before the next game.

    Messi has done nothing in this World Cup but football is a team game and if the sum of the parts are all wrong then even a great player like Messi won’t shine but the rush to write Messi off now as nothing more than a player who can only do it in soft La Liga games v the likes of Getafe imo is laughable, this is a player who has scored 100 Champions League goals and helped his Club win 4 CL trophies!

    Argentina have a potential lifeline now and could still qualify with the right result v Nigeria. How far they could go should they dig themselves out of their current hole is highly questionable though.

    #1650189
    Wise-fan
    Wise-fan
    Participant
    • :

    Footballers will choose Real Madrid and Barcelona. Because those clubs are the best in the world. The premier league is all about hype. When Barcelona and Real Madrid meet with the premier league clubs. You can see the gulf in quality between the sides. Players are re right to go for the best not stay in this boring premier league. Unless you are playing for Pep or klopp.

    #1650318

    mufc
    Participant
    • :

    Wise-fan-you being harsh on the EPL, it may be behind but it’s cycles. I feel the English teams are getting stronger again, outside the top 2 in Spain, you don’t get the same excitement.

    To be honest, in recent years, City v Liverpool has been better to watch then Barca v Real, where they spend most of the game harassing the ref and rolling around.

    #1650323
    GellerBing
    GellerBing
    Participant
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    People will always use the World Cup to downplay Messi’s achievement in football. There were plenty of times where Messi’s magic pulled through for Barca. I’m with 999, Argentina is a mess of a team, the failure of Argentina will not define Messi’s career.

    #1650332
    Wise-fan
    Wise-fan
    Participant
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    Messi is the best player in the world by a country mile. Played with joy when ever he produces good results. But he is not happy at the minute and that is partly contributing his problems. Argentina midfield is non existent. Messi is forced to go deep as he would have liked as a no 10 to collect the ball from defence at a times. No Argentina player can give a killer pass that Messi needs quickly before he is closed down. Knowing that every manager has his work cut out for him when facing Messi. He will instructis midfield to over crowd Messi. There is no great player without mentioning Messi. And there is no football without mentioning Barcelona and Spain.

    #1650341

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
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    Reports suggest that Sampaoli has been sidelined and the players will pick the Argentina team v Nigeria. If accurate it doesn’t get much more broken than that.

    #1650347
    Romansdirtypants
    Romansdirtypants
    Spectator
    • :

    I actually think Messi is the cause of the argentine team woes.

    Undoubtably a talent but not in the same class as rocket “legs” Ronnie who improves any side he graces.

    We have heard how Messi allegedly wants a say in who Barcelona sign. It’s not his job, it’s the club and managers. I just think he is too much of an influence behind the scenes to the detriment of his own playing career at the national level. Especially if European based players don’t think much of the manager.

    I’d also possibly suggest that his criminal conviction as a tax fraudster, much like legs Ronnie has impacted
    On him or his confidence. Him and Ronaldo are nothing more than stealing dirty mother fukken crooks. Keep idolising criminals chaps… no wonder the game is fooked!

    #1650364
    banjo_chuckers
    banjo_chuckers
    Participant
    • :

    Have to agree with “Wise”-fan, every time Real/Barca met a Prem it’s all one-sided, I mean, look the two games between Real and Spuds last season in the Champions League… very one-sided indeed!

    #1650378
    Wise-fan
    Wise-fan
    Participant
    • :

    Banjo still who has ended up with the trophy then? There are certain shock results that is bound to happen. Like Spurs beating Real Madrid in the group stage. But that is the only time an English side have won.and sorry Chelsea vs Athletico Madrid away which was our our one and only best performance last season. since then these games have been played between the sides and you can see who are the superior sides, its open for verification. Sevilla vs United, Chelsea vs Barcelona and Liverpool vs Real Madrid, Athletico Madrid vs Arsenal.all those games that took place last season were all one sided games. You can choose to bury your head in the sand. But the reality is. Barcelona and Real Madird are head and shoulders above the rest of Europe. And they have the world at their fingers. They get who they want regardless of how much contract they sign. Also when was the last time a premier league side have beaten a Laliga side in a final of major European tournament? I can ‘t remember may be you should remind me.😊

    #1650846
    theMartial Art
    theMartial Art
    Spectator
    • :

    This is hugely relevant to Messi in this world cup too who clearly is struggling to lift his team when the going gets tough

    Are you sure you are talking about the same Messi who dragged an average Argentina team to the final against Germany four years ago in Brazil? For me Messi is the greatest footballer the world has ever seen.

    And who’s Andy Gray again?

    #1650851
    foxyfoxes
    foxyfoxes
    Participant
    • :

    I don’t think he dragged the Argies to the final in any way shape or form. In fact I thought he had a hugely average world cup. I think the general public were looking for any minute sign of skill and quality from him simply to justify their opinion of him as the best there is/was. For me James Rodriguez was the stand out player of the last tournament. If Messi was as good as people make him out to be, he would have won it, just like Maradona did, just like Zidane did, just like Pele did, just like Ronaldinho did, just like Beckenbauer did, just like Charlton did. The really best players show their mettle on the big stage when their team really needs it, like Platini did in 84, Van Basten did in 88, Ronaldo did in 16.

    Some of those players achieved those things in very average teams.

    Show me a highlights reel of Messi and you will simply see the same skill repeated a million times. Show me a highlights reel of the above mentioned players and you will see every footballing skill under the sun, highlighting the wonderful variety that is our beautiful game. With me, it’s “oh look, it’s Messi running with the ball again”.

    #1650855

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    • :

    The big flaw in your argument Foxy is if Messi hasn’t been/isn’t the best player in the world then Ronaldo has been and is and he hasn’t won a World Cup either and is unlikely to ever do so.

    Football is a team game and one player as good as both Messi and Ronaldo are doesn’t mean your country wins a World Cup. “There’s no I in team mate”!

    #1650876
    Blueowner
    Blueowner
    Participant
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    obviously a great player but we should never have the deplorable characteristics Ronaldo enjoys. Thank you God

    #1650921

    Devon Hammer
    Participant
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    Marital act, if you think Messi is the greatest player the world has ever seen, then I suggest you type Edson Arantes do Nascimento into google and read about him. Then go onto youtube and watch some videos of him in action, then you will have seen the greatest player the world has ever seen.

    #1650933
    foxyfoxes
    foxyfoxes
    Participant
    • :

    999, I’m not saying that Ronaldo is the best player, I’m not saying any of them are. What I am saying is that the truly great players can win big for their countries regardless of the talent around them, like the examples I gave. Messi hasn’t even won a Copa America, Ronaldo has at least won a Euro with a much shitter team

    #1650936

    Paxman
    Participant
    • :

    The greatest ever player is purely subjective and no one can claim to be right or wrong, individual statistics mean nothing with a team sport as so much depends on the rest of the team you are playing with. Also it is very difficult to compare players from different era’s as the game has changed so much. I think everyone great player of the time is the player that they enjoy watching the most, for me at the moment that is Messi, Ronaldo is a great player but watching him gets me annoyed and frustrated as much as it does excited. Every game without fail he will do at least one thing that just makes you say out loud ‘Twat’

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