December 5, 2021 at 6:35 am #2027134
Shocking goals we gave away and both Jorginho and Mendy are to blame for the defeat cause even without a couple of key players we did have by far the better game. As mentioned Mendy gives one the shivers everytime he thinks his a Beckenbauer. Jorginho is not really needed for these type of games, rather against teams that could overpower as in midfield like City where he can slow the game down and give us some possession. Thought Loftus and Mount played very well. What a damper for the rest of the week. We also have a very serious problem upfront with no regular goal scorer. Hope mainly we end up the top 4, not so sure anymore. Couple more defeats and it’s panic stations.December 5, 2021 at 8:05 am #2027140
67, as Blue Lion said “Where we are in the league now though is probably a more realistic indicator of where we will finish up.”
We are several years behind City and Liverpool in their development with Tuchel yet to complete even his first year yet and we are still short in a couple of areas worryingly one of which is in the striker department where we’ve spent almost £150m.
I think we will also probably need a tweak or two in January to hold on to 3rd place for instance playing CHO as an alternative left wing back to Alonso who himself isn’t the best defensively will be potentially dangerous going forwards and if Alonso is injured neither Azpi or Saul are the answer either imo.December 5, 2021 at 9:36 am #2027159
Well my take on things is this. We are at where we are at due to an extraordinary number of injuries to our key players. If we hadn’t had these extraordinary number of injuries we were right up there with those two fighting for the top spot until the end of the season possibly. I still didn’t think we would go all the way and I reckon we might have fallen short by about 5 points. We’ve beaten City 2 of the last 3 in 1-0 results – clearly not inferior to them and drawn with and beaten Liverpool last two matches. What Tuchel and the squad have done is extraordinary and I am one of the ones around here that recognised that. The fact is injuries are killing us and they are slowly but surely catching up with us. No blaming the players, no blaming the coach. No excuses, facts are facts and we are struggling. People being critical of the goal scoring need to do the research that shows we are the 2nd highest goal scorers in the league with 16 different goal scorers in all competitions. That is impressive. Factor in the number of chances we create and how many we actually convert yet still have 35 league goals already from 15 games and this is a future powerhouse we have assembled at the club. People criticising the defence need to do their research and see that before West Ham we had conceded the least number of goals of any side in the league including the big two. We can expect further downturn and points dropped until the key players return and it is the circumstances, not the players so anybody on here that wants to attack the players need to look at the broader picture. Until recently Jorginho, whilst he had the odd mistake in him, was central to everything good. Mendy rarely made mistakes, made multiple amazing saves and had conceded 4 goals in about 11 or 12 games. Jorginho is majorly exposed without Kante and Kovacic there in support. I remember John Terry, the legend, being bailed out many many times by the likes of Ricardo Carvallho and him copping a few red cards because those reliable defensive partners were not on call to dig him out of trouble and he was one of our finest ever. Too many target the individuals and their errors. I target circumstance in this case. 3rd looks like where we are at now 999. I agree.December 5, 2021 at 10:19 am #2027175
Before the season I didn’t target a final position I wanted us to reach 80 points as it would represent a vast improvement. I think we can do that still and I am confident 3rd is as low as we will finish.
Circa 90 points would likely be requirement for title which I believe we could achieve with our best players fit for majority of the season.December 5, 2021 at 10:21 am #2027177
Good post 67 players are human and they sometimes make mistakes Mendy earned us the points at Brentford and has been a sensational signing just unfortunate that two defensive mistakes in two consecutive games has cost us 5 points.December 5, 2021 at 10:22 am #2027180
Ditto Lucky.December 5, 2021 at 11:28 am #2027198
A dapple in the January transfer window of a decent player or two on loan might be handy and send Saul back the other way. He fails to impress.December 5, 2021 at 1:59 pm #2027239
Every team will have injury problems. Liverpool are without Firmino. Man City were without Foden & Grealish. RLC plays very well, really happy for him after being unfortunate with injuries all the time during his career. But we need somebody who can defend too. I would try to get Gilmour back and ship Saul back to Atletico in January.December 5, 2021 at 2:23 pm #2027246
Aindro, pool without firminio is like us without werner. What we are experiencing is more equivalent to pool being without thiago, Henderson and Robertson at same time for week after week.December 5, 2021 at 3:54 pm #2027304
You know what they all say you only as good as your last game, criticism and praising is part and parcel of debates whether it’s at the game or on social media, not going away, Mendy had a shocking game besides the 2 goals he let in he kept dropping crosses and he makes fans seriously nervous with his attempts at passing to a fellow player with opposing players always right on top of them. Otherwise the team played well and were unlucky.December 5, 2021 at 4:24 pm #2027323
Yeah ok,so Mendy’s halo has been slipping for the last couple of games I still prefer him to Kepa any day of the week.Still say Georginho is too lightweight for that position he plays in,he needs help and without it his deficiency is glaring.RLC supporting him is not the answer.We could do a lot worse bringing back Gilmour,why we loaned him out and brought in that ‘lemon’ Saul in the first place is criminal imo.We’ve been leading with our chins lately and this West Ham result was inevitable,we were extremely lucky to get the 3 points at Watford.Don’t want to go down the road blaming injuries,yeah,we’ve been unlucky with them but every team suffer injuries that’s why we have a squad but imo certain players not standing up to be counted when called upon.When we were winning leagues we had injuries but replacements came in and successfully stood in with hardly a hiccup!.Didn’t think we played that badly as a team but individual mistakes is costing us!December 5, 2021 at 4:33 pm #2027325
Mendy is clearly a better GK than Kepa. By miles. And this was the first time he cost us the points. But … We have to remember also how many times he won us points practically by himself. (Remember vs Brentford??). So it’s not a question of dropping him. For me the culprit was Jorginho’s pass. From there, Mendy went downhill during that match.
Mtal61 exactly my points. Every team has injuries and we simply have to find a solution. I see Azpi unused. So my suggestion would be to pair Christensen with Jorginho or RLC in the midfield. Jorginho can’t be paired with RLC as they will expose our defense.
Our forwards need to score. This problem has been there for simply too long. Our last lethal striker was Diego Costa who just won the league in Brazil. Lukaku, Werner, Havertz, CHO, Pulisic, Ziyech, all have to step up. All have IMO been disappointing in some degree.December 5, 2021 at 5:09 pm #2027345
Totally agree with Mtal and Aindro the forwards except I would say for Mount are letting us down and Jorginho should not be playing every single game though he had to yesterday as Kante and Kovacic are still out, Loftus Cheek should be playing further up but there’s too many players for now fighting for those couple of positions. I would like to see a midfield of Kovacic and Kante with Loftus in front of them but then that only allows for 2 forwards due to Tuchels system. And yes despite his recent mistakes Mendy is still a far better choice than Kepa.December 5, 2021 at 5:16 pm #2027350
Mtal, the injuries matter because we don’t have a squad of elite players we have 12/13. If we want to win the league they have play most of the games it’s a simple as that imo.
We can’t have two kantes for example, kovacic a great replacement but he injured too. Alonso our best replacement for chilwell but he is not at the same level.
It’s not to blame the injuries though because truth be told with all players fit I still think pool and city are ahead of us…but with these injuries and having to chop and change each week we have no chance of title.
As for winning titles with players injured, I think Jose’s first 2 seasons when our squad was superior to our main competitors are irrelevant but aside from robben injury I think we were OK. His 3rd and last full season we suffered plenty of injuries and missed out on the title. Our past 2 titles were won with a tight group of 12/13 players playing week in week out in which we were very fortunate with injuries to key players.
If think we should be able to maintain 1st position regardless of injuries then we have completely different impression of our squad strength and that of our opposition.December 5, 2021 at 6:20 pm #2027374
We would be walking this league if only we had 3 players like Salah, De Bruyne and Declan Rice.December 5, 2021 at 8:14 pm #2027386
“this West Ham result was inevitable,” Only because we gave away a ridiculous penalty and West Ham scored a freak goal Mtal.December 5, 2021 at 8:37 pm #2027393
Good healthy debate. Well done fellas. It is what makes this place tick. Here is a list of our goalscorers which supports the ‘no prolific striker’ issue. Imagine if one of those had accumulated 10 plus goals already this season. We may have won a few of our games a little more convincingly or we may have more points on the board. Who knows! Lucky’s comment regarding Liverpool having the equivalent players missing from their side week in week out is spot on. City appear to cope the best when missing some of their key players, probably better than us. Liverpool I am not so sure. Their biggest loss though would have to be Mo Salah if he were to get a long term injury.December 5, 2021 at 8:43 pm #2027394
Maybe inevitable is not quite the right word but I too could see that we were one game closer to our next defeat since that United draw and I picked the West Ham match as the game we would come unstuck and I don’t particularly think it matters why we came unstuck. A draw is probably what that result should have been but we were unlucky there or they were extremely fortunate, one or the other, maybe both. Whatever game it was that Kante came off injured with us already missing Kovacic was the turning point in our fortunes in my opinion and Chilwell just added to our decline in fortunes and results. Its not that long ago we beat Leicester 3-0 away and Juventus 4-0 at home and we were flying so no one can convince me that the injuries played little part and we should have seemless cover to march on unscathed.December 5, 2021 at 8:50 pm #2027397
Those stats say a lot 67, we can be really be happy we are getting goals all through the team for one, but like you said, imagine if only one of our forward players was prolific.
We really need Lukaku to step up big time.
More rumours of hazard returning in January for as little as 21m???December 5, 2021 at 8:53 pm #2027398
Yeah 67 inevitable it wasn’t but we all smelled a bad result was a real possibility and feared the worst
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